The Next Pandemic: SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19

[GG]

2 minutes ago, Warren Zevon said:

 

Both men are scumbags and liars. You can't even call it a lie, though, 5G. I fixed it for you. 

 

Good thing you were here between 2008-2016 to painstakingly point out every lie that was uttered by the administration. 

 

Good thing you're as vigilant about hammering the head of the House Intel committee on his lies.

 

Again, whose lies had a much, much greater impact on people's lives?  Whose lies go to the core of damaging the entire foundation of this republic?

 

[BuffaloHokie13]

18 minutes ago, Kemp said:

 

A quick scan shows that this only applies to China. No mention of Europe.

No, it is supplemental to the orders on China and Iran and it applies to the Schengen Area of Europe. 

[Warren Zevon]

2 minutes ago, GG said:

Whose lies go to the core of damaging the entire foundation of this republic?

 

The one currently in the White House. 

6 minutes ago, GG said:

 

Lazy or intellectually dishonest?

 

"To ensure that travelers with recent presence in the countries of the Schengen Area are screened appropriately, DHS directs that all flights to the United States carrying persons who have recently traveled from, or were otherwise present within, the countries of the Schengen Area arrive at airports where enhanced public health services and protocols have been implemented.

 

There are twenty-six countries in the Schengen Area: Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, the Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, and Switzerland."

 

Why didn't they screen anyone from the UK?

[GG]

Just now, Warren Zevon said:

 

The one currently in the White House. 

 

By doing what, exactly?

 

Just now, Warren Zevon said:

 

Why didn't they screen anyone from the UK?

 

They updated it a few days later to include UK. 

 

But get back to the original point of being lazy or intellectually dishonest by not reading the actual details?

[shoshin]

40 minutes ago, Magox said:

 

I know the president is talking about maybe at the end of the year even though he has seemed to back off of that.   With that said, I don't believe there has ever been a vaccine that has been developed and ready for distribution in less than 2-4 years.   Grant it, there has probably never been such a response and strong desire from pharmaceutical companies to develop this vaccine and you will probably have regulatory bodies fast track it for approval at unprecedented levels but I would be cautious and not hang my hat on a vaccine being available for distribution in less than 18 months.    

 

So I just hope that those creating policy for citizens aren't banking on this to happen within that time period.  Heck it may take much longer than 18 months maybe even never.  Who knows?

 

And from yesterday's Statnews article, we should also have some caution between when something gets released and when you will get it. 7.5 billion people will want it and it will get prioritized to health care workers, essential workers, elderly/at risk...so don't expect you'll be getting it before 18 months to two years even if the research pans out and even if the vaccine works. The Gates incubators will help get it out faster but it still will take a while and rushing something like this will result in some unintended health issues that could delay wider distribution even as it's getting rolled out. 

Edited May 7, 2020 by shoshin

[Warren Zevon]

Just now, GG said:

 

They updated it a few days later to include UK. 

 

I know. Why wasn't it included originally? That's quite the oversight.

[snafu]

37 minutes ago, Kemp said:

 

Thank you.

This is from your link:

 

Sec. 2.  Scope of Suspension and Limitation on Entry.

(a)  Section 1 of this proclamation shall not apply to:

(i)     any lawful permanent resident of the United States;

(ii)    any alien who is the spouse of a U.S. citizen or lawful permanent resident;

(iii)   any alien who is the parent or legal guardian of a U.S. citizen or lawful permanent resident, provided that the U.S. citizen or lawful permanent resident is unmarried and under the age of 21;

(iv)    any alien who is the sibling of a U.S. citizen or lawful permanent resident, provided that both are unmarried and under the age of 21;

(v)     any alien who is the child, foster child, or ward of a U.S. citizen or lawful permanent resident, or who is a prospective adoptee seeking to enter the United States pursuant to the IR-4 or IH-4 visa classifications;

(vi)    any alien traveling at the invitation of the United States Government for a purpose related to containment or mitigation of the virus;

(vii)   any alien traveling as a nonimmigrant pursuant to a C-1, D, or C-1/D nonimmigrant visa as a crewmember or any alien otherwise traveling to the United States as air or sea crew;

(viii)  any alien

(A)  seeking entry into or transiting the United States pursuant to one of the following visas:  A-1, A-2, C-2, C-3 (as a foreign government official or immediate family member of an official), E-1 (as an employee of TECRO or TECO or the employee’s immediate family members), G-1, G-2, G-3, G-4, NATO-1 through NATO-4, or NATO-6 (or seeking to enter as a nonimmigrant in one of those NATO categories); or

(B)  whose travel falls within the scope of section 11 of the United Nations Headquarters Agreement;

(ix)    any alien whose entry would not pose a significant risk of introducing, transmitting, or spreading the virus, as determined by the Secretary of Health and Human Services, through the CDC Director or his designee;

(x)     any alien whose entry would further important United States law enforcement objectives, as determined by the Secretary of State, the Secretary of Homeland Security, or their respective designees, based on a recommendation of the Attorney General or his designee;

(xi)    any alien whose entry would be in the national interest, as determined by the Secretary of State, the Secretary of Homeland Security, or their designees; or

(xii)   members of the U.S. Armed Forces and spouses and children of members of the U.S. Armed Forces.
 

At the very least, this means that an awful lot of people that came from Europe were NOT tested, nor quarantined, and I still can't find anything about those in other groups being quarantined. .

So, how did Trump not lie? If you believe it was not a lie, was Trump derelict in his duty to protect us?

 

Again, thanks for answering.

 

Everyone returning were told to self-quarantine.

My wife and her mom and one of my kids came back from Europe the Sunday after that order was issued. They complied completely. It sucked.

Are you saying that people should have been held at quarantine sites? 

The only other ways do deal with this were (1) close the border completely or (2) rely on citizens to do the right thing.

 

 

[GG]

1 minute ago, Warren Zevon said:

 

I know. Why wasn't it included originally? That's quite the oversight.

 

Ask Fauci & Birx.   

 

Would it have changed anything?   Would Pelosi still chide people from avoiding Chinatown?  Would Diblasio still insist on March 11 that St Patty's parade be held as scheduled?

[snafu]

9 minutes ago, GG said:

 

Good thing you were here between 2008-2016 to painstakingly point out every lie that was uttered by the administration. 

 

Good thing you're as vigilant about hammering the head of the House Intel committee on his lies.

 

Again, whose lies had a much, much greater impact on people's lives?  Whose lies go to the core of damaging the entire foundation of this republic?

 

 

Don’t bother.

Trump is an existential menace. He incomparable to anyone living or dead or to come in the future.

 

[Kemp]

27 minutes ago, GG said:

 

Which lie had a greater effect on people's lives?    Did Trump's usual overzealous braggadocio mandated that sick individuals are placed in under-equipped health facilities?

 

Finally, a Trump supporter has admitted he lied.

23 minutes ago, GG said:

 

Lazy or intellectually dishonest?

 

"To ensure that travelers with recent presence in the countries of the Schengen Area are screened appropriately, DHS directs that all flights to the United States carrying persons who have recently traveled from, or were otherwise present within, the countries of the Schengen Area arrive at airports where enhanced public health services and protocols have been implemented.

 

There are twenty-six countries in the Schengen Area: Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, the Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, and Switzerland."

 

My mistake. I assumed Schengen was China for some reason.

Now, according to the other linked document provided, loads of people came from Europe into America without being tested and obviously not quarantined. Right?

That means Trump lied, or if we want to be generous, committed an enormous mistake that devastated NY and surrounding areas.

[GG]

3 minutes ago, Kemp said:

 

Finally, a Trump supporter has admitted he lied.

 

If you weren't lazy or intellectually dishonest, you'd recognize that many people criticize Trump when it's warranted.

 

Again, whose actions (not words) put more lives at risk - Trump's or Cuomo's?

[Kemp]

19 minutes ago, snafu said:

 

Everyone returning were told to self-quarantine.

My wife and her mom and one of my kids came back from Europe the Sunday after that order was issued. They complied completely. It sucked.

Are you saying that people should have been held at quarantine sites? 

The only other ways do deal with this were (1) close the border completely or (2) rely on citizens to do the right thing.

 

 

 

No, I'm saying that Trump said they would all be tested. They weren't. If they were tested and found to be positive, they absolutely should have been quarantined.

You don't honestly believe that they all self-quarantined. Just going by comments here, it's obvious that a lot of posters here would not have done so. 

[Tiberius]

Snowflake Trump 

 

Trump contradicts nurse in testy Oval Office exchange over coronavirus protective gear

PUBLISHED WED, MAY 6 20204:31 PM EDTUPDATED WED, MAY 6 20206:17 PM EDT

 

Dan Mangan@_DANMANGAN

 

 

 

 

KEY POINTS

• President Donald Trump contradicted a nurse who said that access to sufficient supplies of personal protective equipment during the coronavirus pandemic “has been sporadic.”
• Trump shot back, “Sporadic for you, but not sporadic for a lot of other people.”
• The exchange underscored how sensitive Trump has been to suggestions that the United States has lagged in preparedness for the coronavirus outbreak under his watch.

 

 

WATCH NOW

VIDEO05:07

President Trump rebukes nurse in coronavirus personal protective equipment exchange

 

A nurse found out Wednesday what happens when you contradict 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/06/coronavirus-equipment-trump-rebukes-nurse-in-white-house-exchange.html

[Reality Check]

7 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Snowflake Trump 

 

Trump contradicts nurse in testy Oval Office exchange over coronavirus protective gear

PUBLISHED WED, MAY 6 20204:31 PM EDTUPDATED WED, MAY 6 20206:17 PM EDT

 

Dan Mangan@_DANMANGAN

 

 

 

 

KEY POINTS

• President Donald Trump contradicted a nurse who said that access to sufficient supplies of personal protective equipment during the coronavirus pandemic “has been sporadic.”
• Trump shot back, “Sporadic for you, but not sporadic for a lot of other people.”
• The exchange underscored how sensitive Trump has been to suggestions that the United States has lagged in preparedness for the coronavirus outbreak under his watch.

 

 

WATCH NOW

VIDEO05:07

President Trump rebukes nurse in coronavirus personal protective equipment exchange

 

A nurse found out Wednesday what happens when you contradict 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/06/coronavirus-equipment-trump-rebukes-nurse-in-white-house-exchange.html

 

[Kemp]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/06/us/mcdonalds-employees-shot-coronavirus/index.html

Bad behavior

[GG]

22 minutes ago, Kemp said:

Now, according to the other linked document provided, loads of people came from Europe into America without being tested and obviously not quarantined. Right?

That means Trump lied, or if we want to be generous, committed an enormous mistake that devastated NY and surrounding areas.

 

Now you're getting somewhere.   Is it the executive's fault that proper procedures weren't followed by people on the ground?  The order was there, but there was lax compliance by TSA.  Same with the initial infections of the hospital staff in early March.  Proper protocols weren't followed by the people who were supposed to, because nobody took the threat as seriously as they should have.

 

So again, whose actions were more lethal?

[Magox]

Research shows that New York seeded wave of outbreaks throughout the country

 

 

Quote

 

The coronavirus outbreak in New York City became the primary source of infections around the United States, researchers have found.

 

New York City’s coronavirus outbreak grew so large by early March that the city became the primary source of new infections in the United States, new research reveals, as thousands of infected people traveled from the city and seeded outbreaks around the country.

The research indicates that a wave of infections swept from New York City through much of the country before the city began setting social distancing limits to stop the growth. That helped to fuel outbreaks in Louisiana, Texas, Arizona and as far away as the West Coast.

The findings are drawn from geneticists’ tracking signature mutations of the virus, travel histories of infected people and models of the outbreak by infectious disease experts.

“We now have enough data to feel pretty confident that New York was the primary gateway for the rest of the country,” said Nathan Grubaugh, an epidemiologist at the Yale School of Public Health.

 

 

 

Quote

The central role of New York’s outbreak shows that decisions made by state and federal officials — including waiting to impose distancing measures and to limit international flights — helped shape the trajectory of the outbreak and allowed it to grow in the rest of the country.

 

History is not going to look kind on New York.  I don't want to make this a partisan argument but on the substance, the worst governmental decision making in the entire country came from New York.   

 

I don't see how anyone could logically dispute that.

 

Edited May 7, 2020 by Magox

[Buffalo_Gal]

2 minutes ago, GG said:

 

Now you're getting somewhere.   Is it the executive's fault that proper procedures weren't followed by people on the ground?  The order was there, but there was lax compliance by TSA.  Same with the initial infections of the hospital staff in early March.  Proper protocols weren't followed by the people who were supposed to, because nobody took the threat as seriously as they should have.

 

So again, whose actions were more lethal?

I've written several times about Newark on March 14th. What they knew then was take a temperature, see who was hacking. We did have our temperatures taken (the forehead gun) before we hit passport control. We also filled out forms as to where we had been, who we had been in contact with (COVID-19 related), and contact info (I have assumed so they could contact us if someone on our plane turned up positive, but I do not know that).

Where I wrote more which also has a link to what I wrote the day we landed.

 

[Kemp]

3 minutes ago, GG said:

 

Now you're getting somewhere.   Is it the executive's fault that proper procedures weren't followed by people on the ground?  The order was there, but there was lax compliance by TSA.  Same with the initial infections of the hospital staff in early March.  Proper protocols weren't followed by the people who were supposed to, because nobody took the threat as seriously as they should have.

 

So again, whose actions were more lethal?

 

Trump ordered everyone tested and the positive quarantined and they didn't comply is your assertion.

If we assume this is accurate, which I don't, it would have been reported to him. This was certainly important enough to have been monitored. If not, he screwed up that way.

Not one person has been disciplined as a result that I am aware of. Does that make any sense?

If you're in charge of something and your orders aren't followed, is it not incumbent upon you to take action?  

 

If you're going to take the position that he is unaware of this, this would make him a total buffoon. Thousands of Americans are dead as a direct result. 

And yes, the fault lies squarely on those in charge. That would be Trump, where the buck never stops. Everything negative is always someone else's fault.. 

6 minutes ago, Magox said:

Research shows that New York seeded wave of outbreaks throughout the country

 

 

 

 

 

History is not going to look kind on New York.  I don't want to make this a partisan argument but on the substance, the worst governmental decision making in the entire country came from New York.   

 

I don't see how anyone could logically dispute that.

 

 

You are right about social distancing  not being put into place soon enough, but this would also mean that it should be mandatory now everywhere in America. Trump supporters are flouting this now throughout the country, with Trump cheering them on, and this after we have learned it works.

[Deranged Rhino]