billsfan1959 Posted April 16, 2020 Posted April 16, 2020 1 minute ago, Tiberius said: Those death rates, gees Thanks - posted them backward. Fixed it.
Tiberius Posted April 16, 2020 Posted April 16, 2020 1 minute ago, billsfan1959 said: Thanks - posted them backward. Fixed it. Ok, cool. And Good Morning 1
billsfan1959 Posted April 16, 2020 Posted April 16, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: 74,591 US deaths? That's like triple the number I'm seeing. Double checked, total US coronavirus deaths is currently 28,559. Yep, Tibs pointed it out. I transposed the death numbers. (Current US death is 30, 985) https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6 United States: 331 million people, 639,664 cases, 1932 cases per 1 million, 30,985 deaths, 93 deaths per 1 million The next five countries combined: 321 Million people, 716, 822 cases, 2159 cases per 1 million, 74,591 deaths, 224 deaths per 1 million Edited April 16, 2020 by billsfan1959 1
SoCal Deek Posted April 16, 2020 Posted April 16, 2020 California is at 19 deaths per million New York is at 513 deaths per million See any disparity there? The problem is not the same in all regions of the country. Not even close! 1
shoshin Posted April 16, 2020 Posted April 16, 2020 (edited) 41 minutes ago, RaoulDuke79 said: Thank you Tom Wolf you useless hack. https://www.wgal.com/article/pennsylvania-house-passes-bill-that-could-reopen-some-businesses/32148233 Gov Wolf deserves a ton of credit for Pa’s low death count. I tried to find details of what the Senate passed but couldn’t. I’m for openings but it wasn’t clear to me how informed by science this bill was. 21 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: We are not 3 weeks behind those five countries and I'm not claiming some sort of victory or anything at all. If people are going to present information, then be accurate. Don't post a stat that the United States has more cases than any country in the world, without putting it in some kind of context to it, and then claim a complete failure on Trumps part - which is what he did. BTW; We don't have twice as many deaths, I transposed the death numbers. Fixed it Great fix and that’s awesome. We are behind Europe on when we will peak, so that’s what I mean. A better comparison is where Europe was 10-14 days ago vs Us now. I’m not caring about this comparison that much but if we are doing an academic exercise, that’s a better data point. I have rarely blamed a single politician for decisions made in this crisis. Could Trump have done better? Absolutely. And if he wasn’t such a narcissist, he could admit that. But he didn’t make any decision early on that others would have made all that differently. Monday Morning QBing this is a fair thing to do when we vote in November but I didn’t see anyone in politics in the US or Europe getting ahead of this thing and many of his biggest critics were in fact advising to do the exact wrong thing (China travel). Edited April 16, 2020 by shoshin 3
shoshin Posted April 16, 2020 Posted April 16, 2020 15 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: California is at 19 deaths per million New York is at 513 deaths per million See any disparity there? The problem is not the same in all regions of the country. Not even close! And?
Troll Toll Posted April 16, 2020 Posted April 16, 2020 36 minutes ago, shoshin said: Refused? You think these people were not tested because the health care system had tests and people to do the test but they just didn’t want to? What world are you living in? Doctors would love to test everyone they could. I’ve heard that they’ve been turning away people that don’t appear to be “sick enough”. Are they following up on these people?
Taro T Posted April 16, 2020 Posted April 16, 2020 13 minutes ago, shoshin said: Gov Wolf deserves a ton of credit for Pa’s low death count. I tried to find details of what the Senate passed but couldn’t. I’m for openings but it wasn’t clear to me how informed by science this bill was. Great fix and that’s awesome. We are behind Europe on when we will peak, so that’s what I mean. A better comparison is where Europe was 10-14 days ago vs Us now. I’m not caring about this comparison that much but if we are doing an academic exercise, that’s a better data point. I have rarely blamed a single politician for decisions made in this crisis. Could Trump have done better? Absolutely. And if he wasn’t such a narcissist, he could admit that. But he didn’t make any decision early on that others would have made all that differently. Monday Morning QBing this is a fair thing to do when we vote in November but I didn’t see anyone in politics in the US or Europe getting ahead of this thing and many of his biggest critics were in fact advising to do the exact wrong thing (China travel). It's partially that and also the fact that the media are desperate to pounce on any mea culpa he might make. No way he gives his enemies anything that would make them that ecstatic.
Troll Toll Posted April 16, 2020 Posted April 16, 2020 39 minutes ago, GG said: They weren't refused. These are the people who never went to the hospital and died at home. NY EMTs say that they're making many more calls like this than in a normal day before April. Do we really know they never went?
SoCal Deek Posted April 16, 2020 Posted April 16, 2020 6 minutes ago, shoshin said: And? And the point is the entire country is in a similar state of shut down over a virus that isn’t a national problem. Next time we have our seasonal wildfires in Southern California let’s see if Pennsylvania goes into lockdown. 1
billsfan1959 Posted April 16, 2020 Posted April 16, 2020 (edited) 19 minutes ago, shoshin said: Gov Wolf deserves a ton of credit for Pa’s low death count. I tried to find details of what the Senate passed but couldn’t. I’m for openings but it wasn’t clear to me how informed by science this bill was. Great fix and that’s awesome. We are behind Europe on when we will peak, so that’s what I mean. A better comparison is where Europe was 10-14 days ago vs Us now. I’m not caring about this comparison that much but if we are doing an academic exercise, that’s a better data point. I have rarely blamed a single politician for decisions made in this crisis. Could Trump have done better? Absolutely. And if he wasn’t such a narcissist, he could admit that. But he didn’t make any decision early on that others would have made all that differently. Monday Morning QBing this is a fair thing to do when we vote in November but I didn’t see anyone in politics in the US or Europe getting ahead of this thing and many of his biggest critics were in fact advising to do the exact wrong thing (China travel). Yeah, we are about 10-14 days behind. Here's hoping we continue to do what we need to in order to keep the final numbers (particulary death) as low as possible. Aslo, my comment about trying to assess blame wasn't directed at you. You have been a strong advocate for the positions you have taken, and you have been fair in your assessment of the response by the government. Edited April 16, 2020 by billsfan1959
GG Posted April 16, 2020 Posted April 16, 2020 6 minutes ago, Troll Toll said: Do we really know they never went? There's no definitive proof that they never went, but it's unlikely they did. People are turned away from testing sites if they don't exhibit symptoms, but they're not turned away from hospitals. Doctors are also advising patients to stay away from hospitals unless they absolutely have to go. Lastly, demographics play a major role, and it's known than a large number of blacks & Hispanics don't trust the medical profession. This is the quote from the NYC health official in the Gothamist article that first flagged the issue Quote But another 200 city residents are now dying at home each day, compared to 20 to 25 such deaths before the pandemic, said Aja Worthy-Davis, a spokeswoman for the medical examiner’s office. 1
shoshin Posted April 16, 2020 Posted April 16, 2020 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Troll Toll said: I’ve heard that they’ve been turning away people that don’t appear to be “sick enough”. Are they following up on these people? This is a lack or resources issue (kits and humans). And while the system is overwhelmed and most people recover well on their own, not testing everyone also keeps the general population healthier. My neighbors just are getting over it (presumably) after 9 and 12 days of fever, muscle pain, etc (they were in NYC the days before the NBA/Tom Hanks night). Their primary care doc gave them advice for what to do and how to self-treat, as well as when it would be necessary for the hospital. 2 cases with a certainty of 99+% as Covid, not tested. Before that, another person I know tested positive, her family got it too. But only the mom was counted as a positive test because why drag the whole family out and use up kits and nurse time to do the testing (as well as risk exposing the nurses). This is happening all over the place. I've seen we're undercounting cases by as much as 10x in the news. I have no idea what the real number of uncounted positive cases is and it's why I prefer counting deaths as a measure of progress, even with its flaws. You can't not count a body and at least a doctor saw it and made some informed Dx. 36 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: And the point is the entire country is in a similar state of shut down over a virus that isn’t a national problem. Next time we have our seasonal wildfires in Southern California let’s see if Pennsylvania goes into lockdown. If we have a national plan, we could re-open regionally as it made sense. And this is a national problem with NYC as its current epicenter but Florida and other states will get it bad when they are peaking in 3 weeks. Not NYC bad, but bad enough. Our shutdown helped contain it. Let's not make it a bigger problem by reopening in a random (state by state) fashion where we have a situation like what happened on the shutdowns where NYC is closed and Boston is open for 10 days. Edited April 16, 2020 by shoshin 1
Justice Posted April 16, 2020 Posted April 16, 2020 1 hour ago, RaoulDuke79 said: It would also be nice to see the number tested vs. confirmed cases. I remember weeks ago when the gripe was we need more testing. We're doing more testing and the number of conformed cases is going up. Shocking. I'd venture to guess there are few poor countries with high numbers simply because they aren't testing. Yeah but I could imagine the only people getting tested are those that have symptoms. Thankfully I feel great and have no need or urge to be tested and I’m sure that goes for the rest of the world. I don’t have the numbers but I wonder what the percentage of positive tests are as opposed to negative.
shoshin Posted April 16, 2020 Posted April 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, Justice said: Yeah but I could imagine the only people getting tested are those that have symptoms. Thankfully I feel great and have no need or urge to be tested and I’m sure that goes for the rest of the world. I don’t have the numbers but I wonder what the percentage of positive tests are as opposed to negative. You can see total tests and total cases on the worldometers site. 1
Justice Posted April 16, 2020 Posted April 16, 2020 46 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: And the point is the entire country is in a similar state of shut down over a virus that isn’t a national problem. Next time we have our seasonal wildfires in Southern California let’s see if Pennsylvania goes into lockdown. How much of that do you credit to the lockdown? 1
jrober38 Posted April 16, 2020 Posted April 16, 2020 53 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: And the point is the entire country is in a similar state of shut down over a virus that isn’t a national problem. Next time we have our seasonal wildfires in Southern California let’s see if Pennsylvania goes into lockdown. Well, the belief is that without the shutdown it would be a national problem. That's literally why everything is shut down. To avoid it from being exponentially worse. 1
Doc Posted April 16, 2020 Posted April 16, 2020 1 hour ago, billsfan1959 said: Ummm, you forgot to add one teeny, weeny, little caveat to this: The population of the United States is more than that of the next five countries, Spain, Italy, Germany, France, and the United Kingdom combined. United States: 331 million people, 639,664 cases, 1932 cases per 1 million, 30,985 deaths, 93 deaths per 1 million The next five countries combined: 321 Million people, 716, 822 cases, 2159 cases per 1 million, 74,591 deaths, 224 deaths per 1 million I'm sure you weren't trying to paint a dishonest picture.. Meanwhile there were over 60M cases of H1N1. But it was far less deadly. 1 hour ago, RaoulDuke79 said: So do we blame Cuomo for NYC's shortcomings or does it go directly to Trump like everything else? Yes. And also de Blasio. In March they were telling people to go about with their business.
Deranged Rhino Posted April 16, 2020 Posted April 16, 2020 14 minutes ago, jrober38 said: Well, the belief is that without the shutdown it would be a national problem. That's literally why everything is shut down. To avoid it from being exponentially worse. You’re no longer running around screaming about millions of Americans dying then? 1 1
IDBillzFan Posted April 16, 2020 Posted April 16, 2020 44 minutes ago, Doc said: Meanwhile there were over 60M cases of H1N1. But it was far less deadly. Yes. And also de Blasio. In March they were telling people to go about with their business. That wasn't them. That was Trump. He told everyone to go out in public. He even recommended some movies to go see. He told them to visit Chinese restaurants and attend Mardis Gras and head to the beaches for Spring Break. All this while de Blasio and Cuomo and Pelosi sounded the pandemic alarm. (Editor's Note: Coming soon to a junior high history book in your neighborhood.) 1
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