The Next Pandemic: SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19

[fansince88]

This is so troubling. So many in NY have been tested because the signs said to test them. Yet they didnt have it. Then we decide the numbers are not high enough we have to add eveyone thst has died in NYC.

https://dailycaller.com/2020/04/14/nyc-numbers-coronavirus-death-toll/

Edited April 16, 2020 by fansince88

[shoshin]

13 minutes ago, fansince88 said:

This is so troubling. So many in NY have been tested because the signs said to test them. Yet they didnt have it. Then we decide the numbers are not high enough we have to add eveyone thst has died in NYC.

https://dailycaller.com/2020/04/14/nyc-numbers-coronavirus-death-toll/

What world do you live in where you think there are people who think “the numbers are not high enough.”

 

The CDC is trying to get to consistency in reporting by following consistent guidelines across the country. Sorry to the people who think this was being overcounted, but most reports were that this was  undercounted because bodies that were not swabbed were not counted as Covid, even though coroners listed Covid as the cause due to symptoms leading up to death. 
 

Once this is consistently applied across the country, all the state info can present a picture of progression that is easier to picture. It’s yet another reason why national guidelines matter. Consistent death reporting will lead to better management and projection. I hope but don’t know that adding these deaths back in will show we’ve declined in deaths recently. 

Edited April 16, 2020 by shoshin

[SoCal Deek]

14 minutes ago, dpberr said:

Same in Philadelphia. The hardest hit neighborhoods are the poorest, and largely black.

 

Don't think it's so much race - the virus isn't hunting black people or Hispanics like it's some race bullet.  It's the socioeconomics. Poverty, poor health outcomes (obesity, diabetes, asthma), poor healthcare (don't have a doctor or see one regularly),  coupled with cramped living conditions, possibly living in multi-generational households which raises the risk of exposure, heavy dependence on mass transit which also  raises risk of exposure.

 

Throw in substance abuse, homelessness and inability to keep work due to previous incarceration (especially for males) and you've got a lot of potential issues.

This is story about nothing. There are many illnesses that are more common in different races. Again....so?

2 minutes ago, shoshin said:

What world do you live in where you think there are people who think “the numbers are not high enough.”

 

The CDC is trying to get to consistency in reporting by following consistent guidelines across the country. Sorry to the people who think this was being overcounted, but most reports were that this was  undercounted because bodies that were not swabbed were not counted as Covid, even though coroners listed Covid as the cause due to symptoms leading up to death. 
 

Once this is consistently applied across the country, all the state info can present a picture of progression that is easier to picture. It’s yet another reason why national guidelines matter. Consistent death reporting will lead to better management and projection. I hope but don’t know that adding these deaths back in will show we’ve declined in deaths recently. 

All excellent points but since everything is politicized these days I cannot really blame people for questioning motives.  In the end, does it really make much difference whether 6,000 or 7,000 people died from the Virus....probably not.  But, I'm super happy that we're talking calmly about this rather than screaming at each other about a lack of ventilators....like everyone was doing just one short WEEK AGO! 

[GG]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

And this is important why?

Answering the question that was asked why people are focusing on the racial impact of this virus.   Blacks and Hispanics are dying at twice the rate of whites and three times that of Asians.  

[BillStime]

This Tweet aged well...

 

 

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

Nevermind 

 

..

Edited April 16, 2020 by Buffalo Bills Fan

[Deranged Rhino]

On 3/26/2020 at 10:42 AM, Deranged Rhino said:

 

My position, as always, changes with new information but (for fun and since you asked) here are the "conspiracy" theories that I'm aware of and my own personal odds of their accuracy: 

 

2. The virus is actually a bio-weapon released accidentally by China (either through negligence or incompetence). In an effort to hide their blunder, they delayed telling the world and made a bad situation exponentially worse through simple human error and hubris. If true, then there would be plenty of efforts to cover this up by the global community as well as China to prevent the public from overreacting and demanding a pound of flesh in return. (I put the odds of this scenario at 50/50)

Well, it sure sounds like the DoD thinks this is an ever more likely probability. 

[Gene Frenkle]

3 hours ago, shoshin said:

What world do you live in where you think there are people who think “the numbers are not high enough.”

 

The CDC is trying to get to consistency in reporting by following consistent guidelines across the country. Sorry to the people who think this was being overcounted, but most reports were that this was  undercounted because bodies that were not swabbed were not counted as Covid, even though coroners listed Covid as the cause due to symptoms leading up to death. 
 

Once this is consistently applied across the country, all the state info can present a picture of progression that is easier to picture. It’s yet another reason why national guidelines matter. Consistent death reporting will lead to better management and projection. I hope but don’t know that adding these deaths back in will show we’ve declined in deaths recently. 

 

It's justification after the fact for Trump acting like it wasn't a big deal. Now you have his base trying to claim that the numbers are inflated like it's some political issue or something ######ed like that. What a joke. What an absolute disgusting disgrace. I almost can't believe what I'm reading here. It's like Trump wins if it's "not that bad". Now you have every nutjob in the country acting like a conspiracy theorist just so their daddy can be right and get re-elected. It's unbelievable. Way to show your true colors.

 

Hey deplorables, way to live up to the stereotype! Do you remember when he said that fifteen cases would soon be zero? Is that what this is all about? You're all a bunch of ***** losers with zero empathy for what's going on around you. Jesus ***** Christ on a cross. Arguing for inflated numbers is a new low. It's a conspiracy!!!. Piss the ***** off.

[Troll Toll]

3 hours ago, Gene Frenkle said:

 

It's justification after the fact for Trump acting like it wasn't a big deal. Now you have his base trying to claim that the numbers are inflated like it's some political issue or something ######ed like that. What a joke. What an absolute disgusting disgrace. I almost can't believe what I'm reading here. It's like Trump wins if it's "not that bad". Now you have every nutjob in the country acting like a conspiracy theorist just so their daddy can be right and get re-elected. It's unbelievable. Way to show your true colors.

 

Hey deplorables, way to live up to the stereotype! Do you remember when he said that fifteen cases would soon be zero? Is that what this is all about? You're all a bunch of ***** losers with zero empathy for what's going on around you. Jesus ***** Christ on a cross. Arguing for inflated numbers is a new low. It's a conspiracy!!!. Piss the ***** off.

Constantly changing the goalposts on this makes it difficult for the average person to follow. I think more people are worried about their job situation and being able to shelter and feed their family than who is the president. When you appear to be manipulating numbers in a way that will be used to justify keeping people from earning a living, people get angry.

 

How many people are possibly getting infected via the mail, regardless of social distancing? Do we really know and understand ALL the ways this thing is spreading? Seems like folks are getting infected regardless of social distancing. Is having another Great Depression where tens of millions will suffer better than risking a Coronavirus spike?

Edited April 16, 2020 by Troll Toll

[fansince88]

7 hours ago, shoshin said:

What world do you live in where you think there are people who think “the numbers are not high enough.”

 

The CDC is trying to get to consistency in reporting by following consistent guidelines across the country. Sorry to the people who think this was being overcounted, but most reports were that this was  undercounted because bodies that were not swabbed were not counted as Covid, even though coroners listed Covid as the cause due to symptoms leading up to death. 
 

Once this is consistently applied across the country, all the state info can present a picture of progression that is easier to picture. It’s yet another reason why national guidelines matter. Consistent death reporting will lead to better management and projection. I hope but don’t know that adding these deaths back in will show we’ve declined in deaths recently. 

Those numbers need to be kept inconclusive. There is 1 reason to add 4000 deaths to a pandemic. Overblowing a situation that is already bad to control the sheep. 

[fansince88]

6 hours ago, BillStime said:

This Tweet aged well...

 

 

I look at statements made before the fact as statements made before the fact. I was of the mindset thst this was just the flu at first. I have since changed my mindset. Im glad we have a POTUS thst has a changing mindset in this situation.  Now that the evidence is coming out Im pissed at China too.

[Magox]

7 hours ago, shoshin said:

What world do you live in where you think there are people who think “the numbers are not high enough.”

 

The CDC is trying to get to consistency in reporting by following consistent guidelines across the country. Sorry to the people who think this was being overcounted, but most reports were that this was  undercounted because bodies that were not swabbed were not counted as Covid, even though coroners listed Covid as the cause due to symptoms leading up to death. 
 

Once this is consistently applied across the country, all the state info can present a picture of progression that is easier to picture. It’s yet another reason why national guidelines matter. Consistent death reporting will lead to better management and projection. I hope but don’t know that adding these deaths back in will show we’ve declined in deaths recently. 

 

Counting all people who showed symptoms but didn’t test positive is not scientific.    In fact, it’s the opposite of scientific.   Showing symptoms is essentially the same as showing symptoms of the flu.   What they should do is conduct some sort of a forensic deeper look into it that is conclusive.

 

Without doubt if they go about it the way they are suggesting then there will be a considerable number of non covid related deaths that were considered covid and it goes completely contrary to getting a true handle of the virus in gathering important data such as true mortality rates.  

[shoshin]

Re the above...

 

If we had adequate resources, you are right. But we don’t and didn’t in NYC especially.  Currently all we can hope for is consistency so this makes sense. 
 

And the symptoms of Covid are not to be easily confused with the flu. There is overlap but coroners can make an educated conclusion. 

Edited April 16, 2020 by shoshin

[Magox]

19 minutes ago, shoshin said:

Re the above...

 

If we had adequate resources, you are right. But we don’t and didn’t in NYC especially.  Currently all we can hope for is consistency so this makes sense. 
 

And the symptoms of Covid are not to be easily confused with the flu. There is overlap but coroners can make an educated conclusion. 

 

I don’t trust that at all.  There is a lot of overlap between symptoms.    Also the fact that there are underlying conditions in the vast majority of cases make it even more dubious.  This is not scientific.   
 

I I could even possibly accept some other post forensic analysis that isn’t entirely conclusive but a simple snap judgement based off of symptoms is no helpful.  At all.  
 

Getting true mortality rates is an EXTREMELY important data point.  This data point in my view would be one of the most important determinants in setting policy.   I am 100% against counting deaths as COVID deaths based off symptoms alone.    Again, that is not scientific.   
 

I wouldn’t be opposed to doctors telling their families that since they didn’t test positive for COVID, they suspect there is a chance that this was COVID related but that they can’t be sure.   
 

That would be a reasonable response for their families.  But not as a matter of public count.  Specially when we want true data coming in so that public policy can be set.

Edited April 16, 2020 by Magox

[Doc Brown]

8 hours ago, fansince88 said:

This is so troubling. So many in NY have been tested because the signs said to test them. Yet they didnt have it. Then we decide the numbers are not high enough we have to add eveyone thst has died in NYC.

https://dailycaller.com/2020/04/14/nyc-numbers-coronavirus-death-toll/

It's pry even higher than that.  Even with the adjusted totals you mentioned there were still over 3,000 more who died in their homes in the last month compared to the same time period last year.  NYC has really taken the brunt of this pandemic.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

18 hours ago, GG said:

 

  Are Cuomo & Diblasio driving around the state with execution trucks? 

 

Wouldn't put it past them.

 

[shoshin]

59 minutes ago, Magox said:

 

I don’t trust that at all.  There is a lot of overlap between symptoms.    Also the fact that there are underlying conditions in the vast majority of cases make it even more dubious.  This is not scientific.   
 

I I could even possibly accept some other post forensic analysis that isn’t entirely conclusive but a simple snap judgement based off of symptoms is no helpful.  At all.  
 

Getting true mortality rates is an EXTREMELY important data point.  This data point in my view would be one of the most important determinants in setting policy.   I am 100% against counting deaths as COVID deaths based off symptoms alone.    Again, that is not scientific.   
 

I wouldn’t be opposed to doctors telling their families that since they didn’t test positive for COVID, they suspect there is a chance that this was COVID related but that they can’t be sure.   
 

That would be a reasonable response for their families.  But not as a matter of public count.  Specially when we want true data coming in so that public policy can be set.

The priority now is consistency. There is no doubt that we are recording positive tests for only *some* of the dead. That is a nightmare. inconsistent data is a current enemy on the data front more than accurate data. 
 

When we have the ability to test everyone, we will have better data. And we will still have the inaccurate historical record of presumed Covid vs tested Covid, for whatever that data point may be worth. 
 

Doctors can make a judgment about a Covid death. It may be wrong but it’s not a wild ass guess. 
 

As tests and human resources become more available, the data will improve. If you want to consider a crappy data point, think about the case counts. At least with deaths you have a body. 

Edited April 16, 2020 by shoshin

[billsfan1959]

5 hours ago, Gene Frenkle said:

Hey deplorables, way to live up to the stereotype! Do you remember when he said that fifteen cases would soon be zero? Is that what this is all about? You're all a bunch of ***** losers with zero empathy for what's going on around you. Jesus ***** Christ on a cross. Arguing for inflated numbers is a new low. It's a conspiracy!!!. Piss the ***** off.

 

[Troll Toll]

If they refused to test these people while they were alive, why would they add them to the count? Not a good look for our health care system! Families of those should have a case for negligence if their dead family member was denied a test for COVID and now docs are making the determination that it was a COVID death.

[Troll Toll]

This also explains why New York is so bad if they are turning away thousands of COVID patients because they “aren’t sick enough yet”. Can’t blame that on Trump.