The Next Pandemic: SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19

[Buffalo_Gal]

1 minute ago, GG said:

 

That was not the case in NYC.  If you died and weren't tested, you didn't count as a Covid death, which could have under-counted the daily total by up to 200.  They will now test the deceased for the virus to give a proper count.

Presumed cause of death as @RoyBatty is alive pointed out. (the link goes to Time magazine)

</snip>

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recently issued new guidance saying it is acceptable to count undiagnosed COVID-19 cases as “probable” or “presumed” coronavirus deaths under circumstances that are “compelling within a reasonable degree of certainty.”

</snip>

[GG]

9 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

 

I already have admitted my mistake, was it really necessary yo call me a "***** stick", want to discuss like an adult or engage in puerile name calling?

 

And no i am not minimizing the pain, trying to discuss the realities instead of spreading panic.

 

You admitted your mistake of 7K, but also doubted the 145 daily figure, which is closer to the accurate number.

 

Again, daily deaths in NYC are running 3x-4x normalized numbers.  The same thing happened in Lombardy and Spain.   When the virus hits an area, it's devastating.  You may choose to say people are panicking and distorting the numbers.  But I say, that it' a cautionary tale to the unaffected areas.

[RoyBatty is alive]

10 minutes ago, GG said:

 

Again, the cause is clear, if not for Wuhan these patients wouldn't need intensive care and then die.  These statistics are the same as used for flu and AIDS related deaths, where the virus isn't the primary agent of death.  I find it odd that this is the line of reasoning people would use to stroke a conspiracy.  Hospitalizations are real, ICU stays are real, deaths are real, and all are running at multiples of normal rates in the heavily affected areas.   It's easy to underplay the risk if you happen to be outside the hot zone.

 

 

Factually inaccurate.

 

If you contracted CV-19 and an hour later died of a heart attack, it was your heart that killed you, not Wuhan but if tested confirmed positive then you are listed as a CV-19 victim.  Or if whoever signs the death certificate even "presumes" you ave Wuhan you go down as a CV-19 victim.Those are simple facts. 

Edited April 10, 2020 by RoyBatty is alive

[GG]

1 minute ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

Presumed cause of death as @RoyBatty is alive pointed out. (the link goes to Time magazine)

</snip>

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recently issued new guidance saying it is acceptable to count undiagnosed COVID-19 cases as “probable” or “presumed” coronavirus deaths under circumstances that are “compelling within a reasonable degree of certainty.”

</snip>

 

Except the area hardest hit by the virus wasn't doing that, and was not reporting the undiagnosed deaths as Covid.

[Buffalo_Gal]

1 minute ago, GG said:

 

Except the area hardest hit by the virus wasn't doing that, and was not reporting the undiagnosed deaths as Covid.

NYC was indeed doing that. (So was Italy, so was Spain.)

 

Edited April 10, 2020 by Buffalo_Gal

[Warren Zevon]

4 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

If you contracted CV-19 and an hour later died of a heart attack, it was your heart that killed you, not Wuhan but if tested confirmed positive then you are listed as a CV-19 victim.  Those are simple facts. 

 

What if you took HCQ/other treatment and this happened? Was it your heart or the side effects of the treatment that you were only prescribed because of C19?

 

There are a lot of variables

Edited April 10, 2020 by Gary Busey

[Q-baby!]

Happy Good Friday! Best wishes to you all! 

[GG]

1 minute ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

 

 

Factually inaccurate.

 

If you contracted CV-19 and an hour later died of a heart attack, it was your heart that killed you, not Wuhan but if tested confirmed positive then you are listed as a CV-19 victim.  Those are simple facts. 

 

Which is how many flu deaths are also characterized.  

 

BTW, when Buffalo reports deaths from heavy snow storms, does it ignore people who have heart attacks when shoveling their driveways?  

3 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

NYC was indeed doing that. (So was Italy, so was Spain.)

 

 

No it was not, until yesterday.

[Buffalo_Gal]

1 minute ago, GG said:

 

No it was not, until yesterday.

Yes, they did. They were called out on it, and that was why Dr Brix (video posted earlier in this thread) admitted to the "with" being "from."

 

[B-Man]

Good News;

 

THE REPORTING IS ALWAYS QUESTIONABLE, BUT IT’S LOOKING AS IF WASHINGTON STATE IS ON THE BACKSIDE OF THE CURVE

 

Either social distancing has worked, or it’s burning out on its own. Sadly, I’m pretty sure it’s the former. 

 

Seattle’s Army-built field hospital is coming down without treating a single patient. “Even as some questions remain about the extent of the outbreak in Washington state, Gov. Jay Inslee Wednesday announced he would return to the federal government the field hospital recently assembled in Seattle’s CenturyLink Field Event Center to help the health care system cope with the new coronavirus. With the USNS Comfort still stationed in New York, and the USNS Mercy in Los Angeles, Inslee’s decision could mark the first return of hospital beds to the federal government during the pandemic from anywhere in the nation.”

118Po

[RoyBatty is alive]

3 minutes ago, GG said:

 

You admitted your mistake of 7K, but also doubted the 145 daily figure, which is closer to the accurate number.

 

Again, daily deaths in NYC are running 3x-4x normalized numbers.  The same thing happened in Lombardy and Spain.   When the virus hits an area, it's devastating.  You may choose to say people are panicking and distorting the numbers.  But I say, that it' a cautionary tale to the unaffected areas.

 

Yes i doubt the 145 number, doesnt make any numeric sense, should be double or triple but whatever.

 

Now your 3x to 4x number is something that i can believe in, at the peak of course.  So one is 3 or 4 times more likely to die.  And no i  am not shocked at the NYC are getting hit hard, sheer population density saw videos (if accurate you can never trust anything anymore) of still jammed subways

 

  

[billsfan1959]

13 minutes ago, GG said:

 

Again, the cause is clear, if not for Wuhan these patients wouldn't need intensive care and then die.  These statistics are the same as used for flu and AIDS related deaths, where the virus isn't the primary agent of death.  I find it odd that this is the line of reasoning people would use to stroke a conspiracy.  Hospitalizations are real, ICU stays are real, deaths are real, and all are running at multiples of normal rates in the heavily affected areas.   It's easy to underplay the risk if you happen to be outside the hot zone.

 

I'm sorry; however, I am not stoking any conspiracy theories. Nor am I trying to diminish hospitalizations or deaths from this virus. I am simply stating a fact. If you did not attend every death and if you do not have the autopsy report of every death, then you have absolutely no foundation on which to make claims about every death.

 

I can doubt your conclusions on the topic, question certain things, and still not discount the seriousness of the virus and its consequences. Those are not all mutually exclusive.

 

If it is all the same to you, I will wait until the all of the numbers are in and they are analyzed by those with the expertise to reach reasonable conclusions.

[RoyBatty is alive]

4 minutes ago, GG said:

 

Which is how many flu deaths are also characterized.  

 

BTW, when Buffalo reports deaths from heavy snow storms, does it ignore people who have heart attacks when shoveling their driveways?  

 

No it was not, until yesterday.

 

 

Dont know.

 

Very similar to deaths when "alcohol was involved".  How many drunk drivers deaths are due to factors totally unrelated to the drunk driver?  I bet a lot.  If i am loaded and some sober truck driver blows through a stop sign and kills me it wasnt because of alcohol.

 

I have heard stats on Medicare funding goes way way up for patients admitted with CV-19 and then how much more they get if they then  on ventilators?  

[Taro T]

4 minutes ago, GG said:

 

That was not the case in NYC.  If you died and weren't tested, you didn't count as a Covid death, which could have under-counted the daily total by up to 200.  They will now test the deceased for the virus to give a proper count.

 

The way it's been reported is that if a person dies at home and exhibited any COVID type symptoms that the death will now be reported as being caused by the virus.  (Assuming that is accurate, but it might not be.)

 

If that's the way they've handled/counted deaths in the home before this hit, then that's how they should be counting them, but if it isn't, then they shouldn't.  Did they previously consider a person who passed at his/her home that had flu-like symptoms as dying from the flu?  If yes, then count these deaths as COVID-19 as it's more likely they had that than the flu.  If they didn't, then they shouldn't change the method of assigning the cause of death and shouldn't automatically label them as being from the virus.

 

It would help with understanding if they had a standardized determination/reporting methodology that doesn't change with this new situation.  And how events such as deaths are categorized has a tremendous effect on perception.  How much longer would the American life expectancy be, and how much lower would the infant mortality stats be, if the US treated live births that were known to be ending tragically shortly after the birth as a miscarriage like the rest of the world does?  (Or, better yet, how much different would the rest of the world's data look if they treated those events the way we do?  (Which seems a more honest / accurate accounting of those death IMHO.)

 

Things have been bad down there, there's no denying that.  But they shouldn't be artificially skewed in either direction.

[Uncle Joe]

52 minutes ago, shoshin said:

 

Some people don't believe in it and/or don't want that. One of my parents is dead set against cremation. 

That is an interesting way of saying that...

[Magox]

Where have all the heart attacks gone?

 

 

Quote

What is striking is that many of the emergencies have disappeared. Heart attack and stroke teams, always poised to rush in and save lives, are mostly idle. This is not just at my hospital. My fellow cardiologists have shared with me that their cardiology consultations have shrunk, except those related to Covid-19. In an informal Twitter poll by @angioplastyorg, an online community of cardiologists, almost half of the respondents reported that they are seeing a 40 percent to 60 percent reduction in admissions for heart attacks; about 20 percent reported more than a 60 percent reduction.

 

 

Quote

 

And it may not just be heart attacks and strokes. Colleagues on Twitter report a decline in many other emergencies, including acute appendicitis and acute gall bladder disease.

The most concerning possible explanation is that people stay home and suffer rather than risk coming to the hospital and getting infected with coronavirus. This theory suggests that Covid-19 has instilled fear of face-to-face medical care. As a result, many people with urgent health problems may be opting to remain at home rather than call for help. And when they do finally seek medical attention, it is often only after their condition has worsened.

 

 

 

Quote

 

We actually expected to see more heart attacks during this time. Respiratory infections typically increase the risk of heart attacks. Studies suggest that recent respiratory infections can double the risk of a heart attack or stroke. The risk seems to begin soon after the respiratory infection develops, so any rise in heart attacks or strokes should be evident by now. We urge people to get flu vaccines every year, in part, to protect their hearts.

Also, times of stress increase the risk of heart attacks and strokes. Depression, anxiety and frustration, feelings that the pandemic might exacerbate, are all associated with a doubling or more of heart attack risks. Work and life stress, which also may be higher with the acute disruptions we’ve all been going through, can markedly increase the risk of a heart attack. Moreover, events like earthquakes or terrorist attacks or war, in which an entire society is exposed to a stressor, are risk factors for heart attacks. Finally, Covid-19 can actually affect the heart, which should be increasing the number of patients with the heart problems.

 

 

 

Very sad.  I think once there is a full forensic look at all this, once the dust settles which will probably be well over a year from now, we will see that the way we went about the shut down with a meat cleaver will have had a much worse off effect than the safety precautions and lives saved.  That's my take on it.

 

I think we will soon find out once the antibody tests are out that the mortality rate will be somewhere between .25%-.4%

 

I think we will see that the poverty that the meat cleaver approach will have caused more fatalities over a 5 year period than the lives saved.  

 

I think we will see that there were a number of people's health and ultimately fatalities occurred due to people not reporting health conditions due to fears of going outside of their homes will be a substantial number.

 

I don't blame policy makers for going with the meat cleaver approach, this was a Novel virus and we don't have any proven cures for it, no vaccines and it's highly contagious.  Plus the fear of overwhelming hospitals in hot spots is a real and valid concern.   

 

But once some deep analysis comes about and we do some Monday morning quarterbacking, when you do a cost/analysis outlook, we will see that not only from a financial point of view but also overall health and fatalities that the best approach to this would have been with a surgical scalpel knife.

[GG]

16 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

Yes, they did. They were called out on it, and that was why Dr Brix (video posted earlier in this thread) admitted to the "with" being "from."

 

 

Brix was referring to a national standard, not how NYC was calling the deaths.  NYC officials admitted that there was a possible undercount and would update their methodology.  The only counted the numbers that had confirmed infections.   That's another reason that NYC deaths from the virus rose in the last day.

 

Quote

In a statement, Stephanie Buhle, a spokeswoman for New York City’s Health Department, said the city would no longer report only those cases that were confirmed by a laboratory test.

 

You have previously said that the Wuhan numbers are "cooked."   I don't know how you can cook numbers that are running up to 3x normal rates for the last two weeks in NYC area.

15 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

 

 

Dont know.

 

Very similar to deaths when "alcohol was involved".  How many drunk drivers deaths are due to factors totally unrelated to the drunk driver?  I bet a lot.  If i am loaded and some sober truck driver blows through a stop sign and kills me it wasnt because of alcohol.

 

I have heard stats on Medicare funding goes way way up for patients admitted with CV-19 and then how much more they get if they then  on ventilators?  

 

That's why I'm differentiating between causation and correlation.  The underlying conditions very likely are not the reason people succum to Wuhan.  But having an underlying condition is a major factor in your ability to fight off the virus.

[GG]

23 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

 

Yes i doubt the 145 number, doesnt make any numeric sense, should be double or triple but whatever.

 

Now your 3x to 4x number is something that i can believe in, at the peak of course.  So one is 3 or 4 times more likely to die.  And no i  am not shocked at the NYC are getting hit hard, sheer population density saw videos (if accurate you can never trust anything anymore) of still jammed subways

 

  

 

About 2.8 million die in the US every year, which puts NYC at 70K, or less than 200/day.

[B-Man]

 

[outsidethebox]

1 hour ago, Gary Busey said:

 

The saddest thing I have read today about this is some of the unclaimed are spouses with only one other living relative who also happens to be hospitalized for Covid so they are unable to claim the body

Awwww man!!!!

Some dust just flew in my eyes.?