Foxx Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 (edited) 12 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: I'm not ignoring your other post, but I will only minimally respond to it because frankly, despite what you seem to believe, I am generally using this time to step away from the Internet and TBD in general to do other more productive things. Your question to me is a trap based on a false premise... actually a fallacy commonly used here in PPP. That's why I won't engage you thoroughly. But I will respond so you at least understand why I often just don't respond to posters. Even if you still think I'm an idiot or a jerk, at least it might help you understand me a bit more. I trust journalists more than I trust random Twitter guy. I'm not saying they're never wrong, but knowing a couple journalists as you do, I view the safeguard of journalistic "sourcing" as more credible than random Twitter guy who says whatever he wants and has no guardrails. Inevitability someone here (I have a good idea on who those posters will be) will cherry pick certain stories by certified journalists from mainstream media as proof they're not to be trusted. Arguing with someone latching on to those cherry picked stories that end up being a very tiny percent of the slew of other true, well-sourced stories is pretty clearly a tried and true strategy on this forum, but in the end it really just becomes a straw man argument. The straw man fallacy actually seems to be the go-to over here. And it's the weasley way out of a discussion. And it's why I generally avoid prolonged discussion in this forum and why I am not directly answering your post, even though I just basically did, at least indirectly. here's the thing with the main stream media, trans. they no longer exist to report just the news in an unbiased way. they exist to steer public perceptions. you might say that that is paranoid conspiracy theory nonsense. consider that, all of the main stream propaganda is owned by just six companies. also consider that it is not too hard to see when you have the same daily talking point(s) being echoed across all of them. or is it merely coincidence that CNN, MSNBC, WaPo, NYT, The Atlantic, Daily Kos, etc, all use the same verbiage. another poster pointed out that local news is more unbiased in their reporting. i agree with that to an extent. that being that, yes when local stories are being reported on, they have a much better shot at being free from the desired national narrative. however, when local reporting on national news stories is done, they also contain desired narrative pushes because after all, these local stations are also owned under that 6 corporation umbrella. there are countless videos out there that point out the same daily keywords being used in the local markets or any particular day. the farther away you get from the establishment, the closer you are going to get to what journalism was originally intended to be. with that said, in this world where it seems our overlords are creaming their pants with delight over just how well their divide and conquer plans are working, finding news without a slant or hidden objective is just about downright impossible. because we cannot exist without news of some sort, we have to find it where we may and it is for that reason that we must hone our discernment skills and be able to sift the proverbial wheat from the chaff. what is important is that we have real discussions outside of the propagandists parapet. what you have engaged with @leh-nerd skin-erd in is how we get away from their plans. complaining about this persons source or that persons source while defending your own may have some merit, but it ultimately serves no real purpose. as it always has and always should, logic and reason are what is going to rule the day. learning to think for oneself can not be overstated. learning what an article really says and not taking the sound bite headline as it's substance can not be overstated. seeing the narratives within an article cannot be overstated. critical thinking skills help seeing through the propaganda. questioning just about everything in this world they have constructed is not a bad way to go. however the fine line is not questioning to the point that your brian falls out along the way. Edited April 10, 2020 by Foxx 1 6
Foxx Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 2 hours ago, Gary Busey said: Heartbreaking perhaps it is just me here. not saying the video is fake, haven't had time to look into it but just from watching it, somethings just seem off. 2
IDBillzFan Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 9 minutes ago, Foxx said: perhaps it is just me here. not saying the video is fake, haven't had time to look into it but just from watching it, somethings just seem off. My understanding is that everyone who dies of Covid is cremated. So the coffin thing is the first thing I question. But 7,000 are dead in NY, so who knows. 3
billsfan1959 Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Foxx said: perhaps it is just me here. not saying the video is fake, haven't had time to look into it but just from watching it, somethings just seem off. The city of New York has shortened the time they hold unclaimed remains. If they are not claimed in 14 days, they are buried in the city's public cemetery https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/virus-kills-nyc-shortens-deadline-claiming-dead-70072042 Edited April 10, 2020 by billsfan1959
GG Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 Just now, billsfan1959 said: The city of New York has shortened the time they hold unclaimed remains. If they are not claimed in 14 days, they are buried in the city's public cemetery That's exactly what is happening. There's also a huge backlog at the funeral homes & cemeteries, with next available slots running into May. The video is real.
Warren Zevon Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, IDBillzFan said: My understanding is that everyone who dies of Covid is cremated. This is incorrect.
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 12 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said: I'm not ignoring your other post, but I will only minimally respond to it because frankly, despite what you seem to believe, I am generally using this time to step away from the Internet and TBD in general to do other more productive things. Your question to me is a trap based on a false premise... actually a fallacy commonly used here in PPP. That's why I won't engage you thoroughly. But I will respond so you at least understand why I often just don't respond to posters. Even if you still think I'm an idiot or a jerk, at least it might help you understand me a bit more. I trust journalists more than I trust random Twitter guy. I'm not saying they're never wrong, but knowing a couple journalists as you do, I view the safeguard of journalistic "sourcing" as more credible than random Twitter guy who says whatever he wants and has no guardrails. Inevitability someone here (I have a good idea on who those posters will be) will cherry pick certain stories by certified journalists from mainstream media as proof they're not to be trusted. Arguing with someone latching on to those cherry picked stories that end up being a very tiny percent of the slew of other true, well-sourced stories is pretty clearly a tried and true strategy on this forum, but in the end it really just becomes a straw man argument. The straw man fallacy actually seems to be the go-to over here. And it's the weasley way out of a discussion. And it's why I generally avoid prolonged discussion in this forum and why I am not directly answering your post, even though I just basically did, at least indirectly. I have been laughing about this reply on and off for about 8 hours now. You give me far too much credit for attempting to set a trap for you, I had typed a reply last night and somehow swiped the wrong way on my ipad and lost it. I'm really not all that complicated. With due respect, the 'straw man' reply is overused and I reject it's application here. We learn and grow by being open-minded. I acknowledge fully that I disagree with you on many issues, and that my opinion is unlikely to change based on your feedback. However, you posted the article, you put it out there as a hammer to the sensibility of Trump supporters, you indicated that the three news outlets reported it, and my impression was that you viewed it as follows: "One news outlet reporting it's ok to be skeptical, two gives the story credibility, but three is a slam dunk!". My point is that history shows us that media sources uses circular sourcing, reporting what another outlet published, and more recently, hiding behind the tag line "....which we have not independently verified". Let's go with the Covington Catholic story as an example. There are others more relevant to Russia, but I think we can agree on a rush to judgement, a narrative that was concocted by media sources that had no basis in fact. I don't think I denigrated your argument, I'll have to check. I simply asked the questions to try and understand that which to me is virtually impossible to understand. This is one of the biggest stories in the history of our nation: A president accused of treasonous activity and an attempt to remove him from office. I assume we can agree on that? So...How did the major media outlets so misread the Russia investigation, how did they misread the tea leaves, how did their sources fail them so badly, and how did they miss the malfeasance at the FISA court level and upper echelon of the FBI? I know how I square it, I'm just wondering how you saw it? Was it incompetence, intentional or something else? As a gesture of good faith, I'll even share my reply to your reply in advance: Whatchootalkingbout Willis? 2 5
billsfan1959 Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, GG said: That's exactly what is happening. There's also a huge backlog at the funeral homes & cemeteries, with next available slots running into May. The video is real. Right the video is real. However, those are unclaimed bodies. They are being buried the same way New York buries unclaimed bodies every week of the year. Not diminishing the deaths from COVID-19. Just putting the video in perspective 1 3
GG Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 Just now, billsfan1959 said: Right the video is real. However, those are unclaimed bodies. They are being buried the same way New York buries unclaimed bodies every week of the year. Not diminishing the deaths from COVID-19. Just putting the video in perspective Correct. The downside of being very poor and dying from this thing. There's not much that a family can do, because the funeral homes don't have the capacity to quickly intern the dead, so the bodies are unclaimed and buried in Potters Field. 1
Warren Zevon Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 1 minute ago, billsfan1959 said: Right the video is real. However, those are unclaimed bodies. They are being buried the same way New York buries unclaimed bodies every week of the year. Not diminishing the deaths from COVID-19. Just putting the video in perspective The saddest thing I have read today about this is some of the unclaimed are spouses with only one other living relative who also happens to be hospitalized for Covid so they are unable to claim the body 1 3
IDBillzFan Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, GG said: Correct. The downside of being very poor and dying from this thing. There's not much that a family can do, because the funeral homes don't have the capacity to quickly intern the dead, so the bodies are unclaimed and buried in Potters Field. Are they not cremating the Covid deaths?
GG Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, IDBillzFan said: Are they not cremating the Covid deaths? No. The NYC crematoriums are backed up more than the funeral homes and cemeteries.
RoyBatty is alive Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 God people love to exaggerate and make wild claims. Video may be real may even be in NY and may be current but that implications of it are laughable, so many dying of CV-19 we are now using mass graves of MY GOD!!!!!. Roughly 7,000 people die every day in NYC, I dont think that adding in 850? on top of that would so overwhelm the system. On top of that the number of "cv-19 deaths" is way over exaggerated. https://www.citizenfreepress.com/breaking/cdc-admits-to-lying-about-covid-death-totals/ If you die of anything right now and if you are confirmed of "presumed" CDC (actual wording) then it goes down as a CV-19 death. So if you die of a heart attack and the whoever fills out the death certificate even suspects you might have CV-19 then it is a CV-19 death.
shoshin Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 6 minutes ago, IDBillzFan said: Are they not cremating the Covid deaths? Some people don't believe in it and/or don't want that. One of my parents is dead set against cremation.
RoyBatty is alive Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 1 minute ago, GG said: No. The NYC crematoriums are backed up more than the funeral homes and cemeteries. REALLY, so the area is so overwhelmed with CV-19 deaths they are backed up wit dead bodies? Does the fact that a lot of grave yards and crematoriums arent running at 1--% of capacity with this shutdown?
B-Man Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 New York City will bury unclaimed bodies on a remote island after 14 days because coronavirus deaths are overwhelming morgues Business Insider, by Dave Mosher Original Article As coronavirus infections peak in New York City, its morgues are quickly running out of room, exceeding their already vastly expanded capacity. The city’s Office of the Chief Medical Examiner (OCME) quietly posted a significant but subtle policy change to its website: Instead of holding some bodies in refrigerated city storage for 30 days until they are claimed by families, the city will now hold them for less than half that time. On Thursday, OCME’s site said decedents who are not claimed by a funeral home within two weeks would be sent to the Bronx’s Hart Island
Foxx Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 https://twitter.com/gitoma1/status/1248227173288337410 https://twitter.com/RTaylorUK/status/1248212344871817221 4
shoshin Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said: God people love to exaggerate and make wild claims. Video may be real may even be in NY and may be current but that implications of it are laughable, so many dying of CV-19 we are now using mass graves of MY GOD!!!!!. Roughly 7,000 people die every day in NYC, I dont think that adding in 850? on top of that would so overwhelm the system. 145 people die on average every day in NYC pre-coronavirus. Your 7,000 stat is not even close to accurate. If you don't believe the Washington Examiner story, here is the underlying data. Yesterday 518 people died of coronavirus in NYC. No matter what point you're making below about over counting (and it runs counter to many reports of undercounting), deaths are running 3+ times normal. There is no system built to deal with that. You sound like the guy who is skeptical because he hasn't seen videos of hospitals overflowing and Americans dying in hallways on Twitter. This is real. Quote On top of that the number of "cv-19 deaths" is way over exaggerated. https://www.citizenfreepress.com/breaking/cdc-admits-to-lying-about-covid-death-totals/ If you die of anything right now and if you are confirmed of "presumed" CDC (actual wording) then it goes down as a CV-19 death. So if you die of a heart attack and the whoever fills out the death certificate even suspects you might have CV-19 then it is a CV-19 death. Edited April 10, 2020 by shoshin 1
Nanker Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 5 minutes ago, GG said: No. The NYC crematoriums are backed up more than the funeral homes and cemeteries. Hart island cemetery in the Bronx. 1
GG Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said: God people love to exaggerate and make wild claims. Video may be real may even be in NY and may be current but that implications of it are laughable, so many dying of CV-19 we are now using mass graves of MY GOD!!!!!. Roughly 7,000 people die every day in NYC, I dont think that adding in 850? on top of that would so overwhelm the system. On top of that the number of "cv-19 deaths" is way over exaggerated. https://www.citizenfreepress.com/breaking/cdc-admits-to-lying-about-covid-death-totals/ If you die of anything right now and if you are confirmed of "presumed" CDC (actual wording) then it goes down as a CV-19 death. So if you die of a heart attack and the whoever fills out the death certificate even suspects you might have CV-19 then it is a CV-19 death. Listen ***** stick, if 7K died every day in NYC, there would be 2.5 million dead every year, and NYC would cease to exist within 5 years. On any given normal day, 145-150 die in NYC. That's the expected capacity of the morgues, funeral homes and cemeteries. Why are you bothering to argue stupid statistics, when the one thing you can't fake are real deaths, which are running 4 times normal rates in the tri-state area. I get it, you are lucky to live in an area that hasn't been affected. But ***** you for minimizing the pain that people are going through in the 5 boroughs. 2
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