The Next Pandemic: SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19

[daz28]

4 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said:

Do you want to explain that?

Iran contra?  Basically selling illegal arms to an enemy to overthrow a different foreign government, but pardoning everyone and sweeping it under the carpet.  Oh ya the whole thing was orchestrated by a Colonel. There's no way anyone ever ran any of this by the president.  Why would you do that??  Ever watch the fall guy back in the 80's. It's kinda like that

[Blank Stare]

48 minutes ago, Magox said:

Why bother?

 

its clear to anyone who doesn’t have an agenda and is informed on the matter that China is to blame and the entire Western Hemisphere was caught off guard.  I don’t blame transplant, he’s just  one of many who only parrot what they read from mainstream outlets.   It’s the media and their incessant desire to undermine this administration and actively go out of their way to erode public trust.

 

unfortunately for them the media’s influence isn’t what it used to be.

I’m sorry, but for Christ sake, the guy laid it all out in a ridiculously long post with legit information from a reputably sourced article. But I guess that’s just fake news. Nothing but constant deflection around here. Reminds me of why I’ve never spent any time in the dark underbelly of TBD that is the PPP section. It’s clear this is just an extension of the Trump apologist zone. Don’t like the guy? Get out! Fine I’ll go, but first...
 

The China problem is known. I agree, they F’d up by not being forthcoming and suppressing information from the rest of the world. A huge amount of blame is at their feet.  Can’t trust them, and that’s always been the case. But based on their track record, don’t you think the situation warranted a little skepticism or intrigue until proven otherwise? Instead of blowing it off, didn’t the administration at least owe us that? At what point do we hold our #1 elected official accountable for his actions? Never? Ok great. Maybe you, but not me. 
 

Believe me, I’m not willing to exonerate states either. It’s mind boggling how some state leaders have reacted to this too, and they own some blame in how they’ve handled this. It’s certainly not 100% on Trump. But it’s incredible how devoted the Trump base is. The guy is seriously like Teflon.  People just let the guy skate because he’s got our best interest at heart. Right. The guy doesn’t give a damn about you, me, or anyone in between. His inability to take accountability and accept blame is astounding. Just wait until Easter when this hoax is all over. Life will be back to normal and the guy will roll in a whole new cabinet of yes men and ego strokers. Wash. Rinse. Repeat. ?
 

People are still so hung up on and upset at Obama nearly four years after the guy walked out of the White House, that they’ll literally look past every questionable or poor decision Trump makes and tout it as great as long as Obama didn’t do it, it undoes something he previously did, or it’s the opposite of what he would’ve done. Trump supporters tell everyone else to move on and move forward, but why can’t they? Completely stuck on Obama. And this is coming from someone who didn’t vote for Obama either time. It’s just irrational and misguided hatred. Let it go. 
 

I don’t even know why I bother because there’s no convincing anyone on here or otherwise to change their opinion. And that’s ok. I’m not asking you to. But can anyone at least acknowledge the President of this great nation shares some of the blame on how poorly this has gone so far? Is that really too much to ask? Feel like I’m living in the GD twilight zone. 
 

Btw - I know I’m just giving you all what you want with this post. Another log for the fire. I don’t care if anyone responds to this post, ignores it, or emoji rolls their eyes at it. I’m out of here after this post and won’t be back to comment further in this forum. It’s pointless to be here and clear my type of thinking isn’t welcome in these parts. I only bother coming to TBD to talk Bills. If you need me, you can find me on the main forum and roll your eyes at any misguided Bills take I have up there. Peace and love. I’ll show myself out. 

[transplantbillsfan]

52 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

 

What I put in the timeline was accutrate information. I asked you to answer a simple question in your own words. You couldn't do it. I don't want to read articles I have already read. I want you to tell us at which point in January and February (your timeframe) should the administration and other leaders around the world have reasonably known the magnitude of what was coming worlwide - and why?

 

I.N. Y.O.U.R. O.W.N. W.O.R.D.S.

 

Coward

 

You called the article bull#### without any proof whatsoever.

 

I asked you to prove that bold claim.

 

Clearly you can't and you're just trying to distract everyone right now so you don't look so foolish.

 

Coward

[3rdnlng]

1 minute ago, daz28 said:

Iran contra?  Basically selling illegal arms to an enemy to overthrow a different foreign government, but pardoning everyone and sweeping it under the carpet.  Oh ya the whole thing was orchestrated by a Colonel. There's no way anyone ever ran any of this by the president.  Why would you do that??  Ever watch the fall guy back in the 80's. It's kinda like that

Why don't you answer the question I asked? What did HW Bush do to let him off the hook?

[daz28]

2 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said:

Why don't you answer the question I asked? What did HW Bush do to let him off the hook?

Much is still not known about Iran-Contra because of document shredding, deceit, and cover-ups by Reagan-era officials. Congress handcuffed its inquiry by failing to subpoena Oval Office recordings and calling knowledgeable witnesses. Robert Parry, an Associated Press reporter who uncovered the arms-for-drugs trade years before Webb, criticized the media for failing to dig into the story and succumbing to White House pressure and perception management.

On Christmas Eve 1992, then-President Bush decapitated the investigation by Walsh. Bush pardoned six figures, including Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger, whose trial was about to begin, with Bush likely called to testify. Walsh was livid. Saying “the Iran-Contra cover-up … has now been completed,” he called Bush a “president who has such a contempt for honesty [and] arrogant disregard for the rule of law.” Bush’s pardons are newly relevant because Bush consulted his attorney general at the time, William Barr, who reportedly did not oppose the pardons.

 

https://theintercept.com/2018/12/07/george-h-w-bush-iran-contra/

[Doc Brown]

15 minutes ago, TheProcess said:

I don’t even know why I bother because there’s no convincing anyone on here or otherwise to change their opinion.

Yahtzee 

[Buffalo_Gal]

Well, this thread has certainly taken some twists and turns away from the original topic. 

[Magox]

15 minutes ago, TheProcess said:

I’m sorry, but for Christ sake, the guy laid it all out in a ridiculously long post with legit information from a reputably sourced article. But I guess that’s just fake news. Nothing but constant deflection around here. Reminds me of why I’ve never spent any time in the dark underbelly of TBD that is the PPP section. It’s clear this is just an extension of the Trump apologist zone. Don’t like the guy? Get out! Fine I’ll go, but first...
 

The China problem is known. I agree, they F’d up by not being forthcoming and suppressing information from the rest of the world. A huge amount of blame is at their feet.  Can’t trust them, and that’s always been the case. But based on their track record, don’t you think the situation warranted a little skepticism or intrigue until proven otherwise? Instead of blowing it off, didn’t the administration at least owe us that? At what point do we hold our #1 elected official accountable for his actions? Never? Ok great. Maybe you, but not me. 
 

Believe me, I’m not willing to exonerate states either. It’s mind boggling how some state leaders have reacted to this too, and they own some blame in how they’ve handled this. It’s certainly not 100% on Trump. But it’s incredible how devoted the Trump base is. The guy is seriously like Teflon.  People just let the guy skate because he’s got our best interest at heart. Right. The guy doesn’t give a damn about you, me, or anyone in between. His inability to take accountability and accept blame is astounding. Just wait until Easter when this hoax is all over. Life will be back to normal and the guy will roll in a whole new cabinet of yes men and ego strokers. Wash. Rinse. Repeat. ?
 

People are still so hung up on and upset at Obama nearly four years after the guy walked out of the White House, that they’ll literally look past every questionable or poor decision Trump makes and tout it as great as long as Obama didn’t do it, it undoes something he previously did, or it’s the opposite of what he would’ve done. Trump supporters tell everyone else to move on and move forward, but why can’t they? Completely stuck on Obama. And this is coming from someone who didn’t vote for Obama either time. It’s just irrational and misguided hatred. Let it go. 
 

I don’t even know why I bother because there’s no convincing anyone on here or otherwise to change their opinion. And that’s ok. I’m not asking you to. But can anyone at least acknowledge the President of this great nation shares some of the blame on how poorly this has gone so far? Is that really too much to ask? Feel like I’m living in the GD twilight zone. 
 

Btw - I know I’m just giving you all what you want with this post. Another log for the fire. I don’t care if anyone responds to this post, ignores it, or emoji rolls their eyes at it. I’m out of here after this post and won’t be back to comment further in this forum. It’s pointless to be here and clear my type of thinking isn’t welcome in these parts. I only bother coming to TBD to talk Bills. If you need me, you can find me on the main forum and roll your eyes at any misguided Bills take I have up there. Peace and love. I’ll show myself out. 

 

There are pages and pages and pages of sourced arguments if you take the time to look through.  If you don’t see that the fault lies squarely on China and that the Trump administration is not nearly as much to blame as the mainstream outlets make it out to be then there is no point continuing on.   
 

The arguments are there to read in this forum and many of them are publicly documented and sourced.   What the media does is they do hatchet jobs, they report bits and pieces of their truth while omitting pertinent facts and often times report their inklings of their truth without context.  

 

Here is the deal, virtually every government in the Western Hemisphere was caught off guard.  So was dr Fauci.  So was WHO.  So was all of Europe.

 

Why? Because as both Dr Birx and Dr Fauci have both said, they got incomplete data from China.

 

Dr Fauci has said on numerous occasions that the Trump administration has followed pretty much everything he has suggested.   
 

Dr Fauci has said that the testing system we had in place was not setup for this sort of pandemic disease.   
 

Anyone who is putting the blame mainly on the Trump administration is either ignorant to the facts, duped by the media who clearly have an agenda against the president or simply a partisan.

 

The anger should be squarely on the Chinese.  They friggen covered it up for 3 weeks.  Not only did they cover it up for 3 weeks but they have distorted the data coming out of Wuhan.   Why is that important because now the US and Europe were basing everything off of faulty data which screws up their modeling.

 

Your anger is 100% misdirected

[B-Man]

 

 

Incompetence or Sabotage ?

 

 

.

 

[Magox]

The information is Public and if you search hard enough you can come to a reasonable conclusion if you are willing to be reasonable.   I have one single article with verified sourced data that pretty much encapsulates this absurdly ignorant Argument:

 

———————————————————————————

 

Although concerns over coronavirus and its ramifications didn't manifest until March in the U.S., U.S. governors were briefed February 9 at the National Governors Association Winter Meeting by members of Donald Trump's coronavirus task force on the growing threat of the respiratory virus.

 

 

The celebrations across the state, and specifically in New Orleans, sparked a major outbreak in Louisiana, leading it to become the fourth deadliest state in the nation with 370 deaths as of Sunday.

Centers for Disease Control Director Robert Redfield and the government's top immunologist and infectious diseases expert Anthony Fauci revealed the threats of coronavirus to governors in early February.

The NGA meeting was hosted by Chairman and Maryland Governor Larry Hogan, and attended by more than half of the nation's state leaders.

Hogan said Redfield and Fauci's statements were alarming to several governors at the time.

'The doctors and the scientists, they were telling us then exactly what they are saying now,' Hogan, a Republican, told The Washington Post in an article published Saturday.

 

————————————————————————————

 

You can read that article here https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8189775/Louisiana-governor-claims-no-idea-New-Orleans-Mardi-Gras-trigger-coronavirus-outbreak.html?ito=social-facebook

 

 

So let’s look at what that article says.   It says that the governors were briefed, that the seriousness of the potential dangers were communicated to them.   They are the governors of their own states, they were warned by the CDC and Dr Fauci.   Yet they didn’t act on it until mid March. 
 

I’m not bringing this up to blame them,  I’m bringing it up because everything happened so fast and for them to close down their states or take mitigation efforts when there was t a single case of community spread was an unfathomable idea.  
 

you see, reasonable people can understand that this wasn’t their fault or the presidents.  Reasonable people can view this and understand that China covered it up and shared knowing false data on the disease.  Reasonable people would all want to not point fingers at our own government and citizens and hope for the best.

 

One last thing.  What is a metric that would show how we are weathering this?

 

I would say the mortality rate is an important one because it shows how well the hospitals and medical system is handling the crisis.   And the other one would be the net ratio of deaths per million citizens.  That shows how many people are dying per million people within each country.  This stat shows how well the population is being protected or not being protected relative to our peers.

 

Relative to Europe, aside from A couple of the Nordic countries and Germany the U.S has a better mortality rate and deaths per million and the US is not that far from Germany.   The US is doing much better than France, UK, Netherlands, Austria, Switzerland, Italy and Spain.  You can view that data here https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

 

And that’s mainly because of the decision to ban the China travel which both Biden and Bernie were both against.   Dr Fauci has said that decision was a hugely important one.  It’s funny how the media glosses over that very important fact.

 

 

Edited April 6, 2020 by Magox

[billsfan1959]

1 hour ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

You called the article bull#### without any proof whatsoever.

 

I asked you to prove that bold claim.

 

Clearly you can't and you're just trying to distract everyone right now so you don't look so foolish.

 

Coward

 

The article claimed that Trump failed to do anything from the time anyone knew about this virus on Dec 31st, until the beginning of March, yet, literally offered no evidence, whatsoever, that provides anything close to a compelling argument that Trump, should have taken any other steps than he did before the end of February.

 

If the article is going to claim he failed to act during that time frame, then provide some evidence as to why he should have. They provided nothing. Not one bit of evidence. They discussed other things that I might even agree with; however, as to the point of delay: Nothing.

 

Now, please provide us with the evidence that shows Trump should have known, before the end of February, how serious this virus was going to be outside of China. Don't quote us another article with no actual facts. Tell us in your own words and cite the evidence that leads you to that conclusion.

 

If you want to have a real discussion, now is your chance.

Edited April 6, 2020 by billsfan1959

[meazza]

32 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

Incompetence or Sabotage ?

 

 

.

 

Incompetence.

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/myth-busters

 

Exposing yourself to the sun or to temperatures higher than 25C degrees DOES NOT prevent the coronavirus disease (COVID-19)

You can catch COVID-19, no matter how sunny or hot the weather is. Countries with hot weather have reported cases of COVID-19. To protect yourself, make sure you clean your hands frequently and thoroughly and avoid touching your eyes, mouth, and nose.  

 

 

You can recover from the coronavirus disease (COVID-19). Catching the new coronavirus DOES NOT mean you will have it for life.

Most of the people who catch COVID-19 can recover and eliminate the virus from their bodies. If you catch the disease, make sure you treat your symptoms. If you have cough, fever, and difficulty breathing, seek medical care early – but call your health facility by telephone first. Most patients recover thanks to supportive care.

 

 

 

Being able to hold your breath for 10 seconds or more without coughing or feeling discomfort DOES NOT mean you are free from the coronavirus disease (COVID-19) or any other lung disease.

The most common symptoms of COVID-19 are dry cough, tiredness and fever. Some people may develop more severe forms of the disease, such as pneumonia. The best way to confirm if you have  the virus producing COVID-19 disease is with a laboratory test.  You cannot confirm it with this breathing exercise, which can even be dangerous.

 

 

 

Drinking alcohol does not protect you against COVID-19 and can be dangerous

Frequent or excessive alcohol consumption can increase your risk of health problems. 

 

 

 

 

COVID-19 virus can be transmitted in areas with hot and humid climates

From the evidence so far, the COVID-19 virus can be transmitted in ALL AREAS, including areas with hot and humid weather. Regardless of climate, adopt protective measures if you live in, or travel to an area reporting COVID-19. The best way to protect yourself against COVID-19 is by frequently cleaning your hands. By doing this you eliminate viruses that may be on your hands and avoid infection that could occur by then touching your eyes, mouth, and nose.

 

 

 

Download and share graphic

Cold weather and snow CANNOT kill the new coronavirus.

There is no reason to believe that cold weather can kill the new coronavirus or other diseases. The normal human body temperature remains around 36.5°C to 37°C, regardless of the external temperature or weather. The most effective way to protect yourself against the new coronavirus is by frequently cleaning your hands with alcohol-based hand rub or washing them with soap and water.

 

Not sure if I can trust the WHO after some sketchy things they did. All thru out this coronavirus.

[Chef Jim]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

Well, this thread has certainly taken some twists and turns away from the original topic. 

You new here?  ?

[Doc]

9 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

The article claimed that Trump failed to do anything from the time anyone knew about this virus on Dec 31st, until the beginning of March, yet, literally offered no evidence, whatsoever, that provides anything close to a compelling argument that Trump, should have taken any other steps than he did before the end of February.

 

If the article is going to claim he failed to act during that time frame, then provide some evidence as to why he should have. They provided nothing. Not one bit of evidence. They discussed other things that I might even agree with; however, as to the point of delay: Nothing.

 

Now, please provide us with the evidence that shows Trump should have known, before the end of February, how serious this virus was going to be outside of China. Don't quote us another article with no actual facts. Tell us in your own words and cite the evidence that leads you to that conclusion.

 

If you want to have a real discussion, now is your chance.

 

Again, no one did anything about the disease.  Trump was the first in the world to restrict travel from China.  Meanwhile the Dems have stated (until recently) that they would have kept borders open.  And this seems logical given they don't want to appear racist.  How many hundreds to thousands more infected people would have entered to silently spread this in the beginning? 

[B-Man]

 

 

He’s done his job for decades, but he’s never faced a crisis like this, and at 79 he’s not super mentally flexible.

 

Double-blind experiments are the norm, but this isn’t a normal time.

 

Happily, he’s not managing to roadblock this, thanks largely I believe to Peter Navarro’s task force.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That poll, by the way, was of 6,227 physicians surveyed in 30 countries.

 

In Spain, 72 percent of physicians said they had prescribed it.

 

 

The problem, though, is that President Trump called it a possible game-changer in a tweet and said during Saturday’s coronavirus briefing that he thinks COVID-19 patients should try it, though it’s up to them and their doctors.

 

 

.

 

 

.

[meazza]

3 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

He’s done his job for decades, but he’s never faced a crisis like this, and at 79 he’s not super mentally flexible.

 

Double-blind experiments are the norm, but this isn’t a normal time.

 

Happily, he’s not managing to roadblock this, thanks largely I believe to Peter Navarro’s task force.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That poll, by the way, was of 6,227 physicians surveyed in 30 countries.

 

In Spain, 72 percent of physicians said they had prescribed it.

 

 

The problem, though, is that President Trump called it a possible game-changer in a tweet and said during Saturday’s coronavirus briefing that he thinks COVID-19 patients should try it, though it’s up to them and their doctors.

 

 

.

 

 

.

Fauci has claimed himself that if he was to have the virus, that he would request to be in a clinical trial.  
 

The reality is that the most effective solution is social distancing and he probably doesn’t want anyone to lay off the accelerator.

 

Anecdotal evidence and surveys doesn’t not equate science.

[njbuff]

8 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

He’s done his job for decades, but he’s never faced a crisis like this, and at 79 he’s not super mentally flexible.

 

Double-blind experiments are the norm, but this isn’t a normal time.

 

Happily, he’s not managing to roadblock this, thanks largely I believe to Peter Navarro’s task force.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That poll, by the way, was of 6,227 physicians surveyed in 30 countries.

 

In Spain, 72 percent of physicians said they had prescribed it.

 

 

The problem, though, is that President Trump called it a possible game-changer in a tweet and said during Saturday’s coronavirus briefing that he thinks COVID-19 patients should try it, though it’s up to them and their doctors.

 

 

.

 

 

.

 

What if you are taking a lot of prescription meds?

 

Would this drug complicate things? This is the question.

[meazza]

I also recently read a story from a doctor who prescribed this to 79 patients and I believe 2 died though in fairness, they were all from a nursing home.

 

Seriously the ring wing and left wing spin machines need to shut the ***** up.

Just now, njbuff said:

 

What if you are taking a lot of prescription meds?

 

Would this drug complicate things? This is the question.

Is this the same drug that could cause issues with people with heart conditions ?  Probably the same people who would have complications with covid.

[Gene Frenkle]

6 hours ago, Chef Jim said:

Yeah but only one can be the biggest loser.  Speaking of which welcome back. ?

Thanks buddy.