B-Man Posted April 4, 2020 Posted April 4, 2020 SEEN ON FACEBOOK: The debate over immigration is over: restriction wins. The debate over borders is over: they are needed. The debate over globalization is over: the era of autarky begins. The debate over Europe is over: it is a geographic expression, not a polity. The debate over global warming is over: it is irrelevant. The debate over international institutions is over: only nations matter. The debate over the People’s Republic of China is over: it is a menace to the community of nations, not a member in good standing. Crisis is clarity. This has been an era of clarification. . 7 1 1
TakeYouToTasker Posted April 4, 2020 Posted April 4, 2020 3 hours ago, shoshin said: How about we think like people trying to reopen an economy by controlling the spread of a disease? She’s not wrong, Pollyanna. 1 1 1
shoshin Posted April 4, 2020 Posted April 4, 2020 (edited) 29 minutes ago, TPS said: This is great from Oregon and I am sure other places with low rates around the country and New York State will also step up. That's what we do as Americans. Yay us! 1 hour ago, mannc said: The hysteria needs to stop. There are few cases in my area and the number of new cases is stable, as are the numbers of new deaths and hospitalizations. We have been sheltering in place for almost three weeks now, so that’s not going to change. It’s not not time to adopt new fear-mongering requirements. It's like you don't remember when we had 15 cases as a country. If we'd all just distanced and worn masks starting then (not shut down), we'd have almost no problem. That's not a knock on anyone who didn't do it then because very few people knew we'd go from 15 to hundreds of thousands in a blink but don't we know better now? Why take the chance? Edited April 4, 2020 by shoshin 3
shoshin Posted April 4, 2020 Posted April 4, 2020 21 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said: She’s not wrong, Pollyanna. You know what else could happen? We could have a run on fabric and there won't be enough for clothes. I think we have bigger problems that the masks are solving than worrying overly much about the masked bandits that this will encourage. If it makes you feel better, carry a piece when you pick up your produce.
3rdnlng Posted April 4, 2020 Posted April 4, 2020 1 hour ago, MILFHUNTER#518 said: Alot of people share his sentiment. https://wham1180.iheart.com/content/2020-04-04-lonsberry-cuomos-order-is-an-act-of-executive-homicide/#.XoiYbDVfoGc.twitter You’ve been triaged, upstate New York. The governor put the black tag around your neck. Some will live and some will die and, well, you don’t get to live. That’s what Andy Cuomo’s decree of Friday means. Your ventilators go to his voters and when you get the COVID, well, good luck to you. If all goes well, your family can have a memorial service in a year or two, after the Chinese sell us the vaccine. And if it’s not you, it’s your grandmother, or somebody’s grandfather, suffocating alone on a gurney in a tent. He has decided to redistribute death, from the areas that weren’t prepared and aren’t social distancing, to the areas that were and are. He is robbing the poor to give to the rich. He’s taking crucial and irreplaceable medical equipment from those parts of the state that voted for his opponent in the last election, and moving them to those areas of the state that voted for him. And he’s sending the National Guard to do it. “Deploy” was the verb he used. He’s deploying the Army to seize gloves, masks, gowns and ventilators from hospitals and clinics in upstate New York. That will sicken nurses, doctors and respiratory therapists, and kill critically ill patients. And that’s not just rhetoric, it’s undeniable medical truth. Andy signed your DNR. When every network newscast features an angry or frightened nurse shouting into her phone about the need for PPE, Andy Amin is taking PPE away from thousands of nurses across the broad swathe of upstate. He is endangering them and their families. He is increasing the likelihood that they will get infected, and that they will take the virus home to their children, spouses and parents. When he said, “We’re all in this together,” you didn’t think he was talking about the grave. The scenario is as old as the state – upstate is the door mat of downstate, a subjugated region overseen by an imperial master whose every action shows a disdain for his inferior colonial subjects. And so it is that in the life-or-death scramble to be prepared for the peak of the coronavirus wave, he has decided that upstate will take the hit. All across largely rural upstate New York, chronically one of the poorest regions in the United States, hospitals have over years scrimped and saved to be properly equipped to serve their communities. This has been incredibly hard. The need is high and the purse is empty, but they’ve mostly been able to do it. Even when Obamacare forced many of them out of business or into consolidation, they pushed on, taking care of the people whose parents and grandparents sacrificed to build and fund the hospitals. And then came the coronavirus, and hometown hospitals sprang into action, marshalling their forces and resources. All while facing the financial devastation of the government-ordered suspension of all elective surgeries and procedures – which has led some hospitals to furlough nurses and doctors, and left some with daily operating deficits in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. But the hospitals and their wonderful staffs pushed on. And they stand ready, with enough gloves and masks to get them through a couple of weeks, and not nearly enough ventilators to meet the anticipated need of their communities. And then Andy “Baby Doc” Duvalier spoke, and confiscated with his pen and his army those ventilators and gloves and masks. Within two hours his administration’s position went from “excess” supplies to a mandatory 10% to a mandatory 20%, and now the weekend comes and the National Guard trucks are expected to roll and we all know they’ll take whatever the hell he wants. The SOB took our PPE. I wonder how many National Guardsmen will be returning on orders to their home communities to gather up and confiscate the medical supplies which would have cared for their own families. I wonder how many National Guard husbands will seize the masks and gloves that would have protected their own nurse wives. I wonder why a governor whose civil government includes a fleet of thousands of vehicles decided to send military trucks and uniformed soldiers to confiscate medical supplies from his subjects. Cavalierly in front of reporters, he brushed off any fear of restraining law suits, and said that New York City would return the ventilators when it is done with them, or will reimburse rural hospitals for them. That’s cold comfort from a governor who says he’s broke, and who repeatedly has said ventilators aren’t available on the open market. Several upstate communities have lit candles to honor and thank the health care workers on the frontlines of this fight. By plundering their personal protective equipment, the governor is assuring that we will next light candles for their funerals. We are marching into battle, and he just confiscated our bullets. We have elderly people in fear for their lives, and their governor has just made it less likely there will be a ventilator available for them when their crisis comes. He mishandles his state and its largest city, creating a worse situation than existed in Italy, and puts New York on track to be the hardest-hit region in the global pandemic, and decides to devastate a region which had the good sense to be prepared. And this all happens on the same day we learn that the unemployment website will be down for at least another week, and the governor gets a $25,000 raise this year and another $25,000 raise next year. His executive order is an act of homicide. And Cuomo will be remembered by history as the truck governor. Army trucks for his theft, and refrigerated trucks for his dead. If only we had listened to Cuomo when he said that many of us should leave the state due to our political beliefs. https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jan/19/gov-cuomo-pro-life-conservatives-have-no-place-new/ 2 3
Taraka Posted April 4, 2020 Posted April 4, 2020 6 hours ago, Azalin said: You're answering for Transplant? Okay then, let's assume that "mass recommendations" is meant, as you say, to mean "the recommendation for the masses to wear masks in public like the cdc says". It seems pretty clear to me that Trump is speaking strictly for himself, not recommending that others follow suit. Is that questionable reasoning? Sure, I think so. Is he in any way gainsaying the medical professionals or questioning their advice? No, he isn't. I think you guys are making an issue where one really doesn't exist. in other words the proverbial saying would apply "do as I say not as I do" Isn't that just great.
shoshin Posted April 4, 2020 Posted April 4, 2020 Just now, ~Kostabi~ said: in other words the proverbial saying would apply "do as I say not as I do" Isn't that just great. Trump has a lot of unforced errors. That was one. He could have said, "We recommend that people, when they go to crowded places, wear masks. I may not because of all the testing that goes on around us but if I was going to a crowded place, I would wear a mask and I would feel good seeing others doing so because we would be keeping each other safe. Bigly." I think he will say some version of that today when Acosta asks him the sure-to-come dickish question about this. 2
Bob in Mich Posted April 4, 2020 Posted April 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, shoshin said: This is great from Oregon and I am sure other places with low rates around the country and New York State will also step up. That's what we do as Americans. The problem I see with this is the length of time a patient needs to stay on the machine. Last I heard this averaged 11 days, obviously with some being above that number. If an area’s peak is projected to be in about 2 weeks, how many would you be willing to loan out? How do you return a ventilator if the patient is still on it? Promises for a new one are nice but can those be produced and delivered in time for their peak? I don’t know but it seems like they will take some weeks to build
shoshin Posted April 4, 2020 Posted April 4, 2020 Just now, Bob in Mich said: The problem I see with this is the length of time a patient needs to stay on the machine. Last I heard this averaged 11 days, obviously with some being above that number. If an area’s peak is projected to be in about 2 weeks, how many would you be willing to loan out? How do you return a ventilator if the patient is still on it? Promises for a new one are nice but can those be produced and delivered in time for their peak? I don’t know but it seems like they will take some weeks to build Resource management is what everyone is doing. Look at the country and you can see we have a giant NYC problem and growing problems in New Orleans and Detroit, with hints in Atlanta. The rest of the country can help at the moment. Of course everyone is nervous but this is about helping the person who needs it now. 1
Buffalo_Gal Posted April 4, 2020 Posted April 4, 2020 7 minutes ago, shoshin said: You know what else could happen? We could have a run on fabric and there won't be enough for clothes. I think we have bigger problems that the masks are solving than worrying overly much about the masked bandits that this will encourage. If it makes you feel better, carry a piece when you pick up your produce. Try finding ¼" elastic.
3rdnlng Posted April 4, 2020 Posted April 4, 2020 39 minutes ago, TPS said: Don't forget the part where he said that he'd return twice as many. 1
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted April 4, 2020 Posted April 4, 2020 ...sad to learn that allegedly the Federal stockpile yields many ineffective, dry rotted "supplies", obviously spanning multiple administrations.....alleged published "use by dates" go back to 2010....if, IF true, this is a Federal failure without politicization.....at the same time, what are individual states' backup/preparedness plans?.....probably safe to say that there is plenty of individual states' unpreparedness ineptitude to go around......PLENTY OF BLAME TO GO AROUND without need for politicization IMO...... 1
SydneyBillsFan Posted April 4, 2020 Posted April 4, 2020 (edited) An Australian perspective on the NY state debacle: NY mayor DiBlazio (is that his name?) is copping an absolute pummeling from Sky News commentators (our Fox News) for saying back in February and right through into March that New Yorkers "had nothing to worry about, this is no fault of China or the Chinese, go out at night and enjoy yourselves" etc.. I do not know a thing about this DiBlazio goon, but if this is true IMO he needs to be subjected to the US politicians version of a court martial for gross negligence and reckless endangerment. And further proof - if any was required - that political correctness and new age leftist wokeness is a cancer on western society and is just as badly in need of finding a cure as COVID19. Edited April 4, 2020 by SydneyBillsFan 2 1 1
B-Man Posted April 4, 2020 Posted April 4, 2020 In Vermont you can only sell what the state approves........ 5
billsfan1959 Posted April 4, 2020 Posted April 4, 2020 16 minutes ago, Bob in Mich said: The problem I see with this is the length of time a patient needs to stay on the machine. Last I heard this averaged 11 days, obviously with some being above that number. If an area’s peak is projected to be in about 2 weeks, how many would you be willing to loan out? How do you return a ventilator if the patient is still on it? Promises for a new one are nice but can those be produced and delivered in time for their peak? I don’t know but it seems like they will take some weeks to build They have been building them. Honestly, I don't think this country is going to run out of ventilators or hospital beds. There were predictions that there were going to be shortages of both over a week ago, and people were going to be left in the halways to die. It hasn't happened yet. I don't believe it will. I think they have a much better idea of how this virus might spread here, what places will be vulnerable, and when. It is a matter of reallocating existing resources and get manufacturing to the level (if not there now) to produce the equipment necessary as demand grows. Just my opinion based on what I have been reading.
SydneyBillsFan Posted April 4, 2020 Posted April 4, 2020 (edited) https://www.cityandstateny.com/articles/politics/new-york-city/all-de-blasios-covid-19-missteps.html https://www.dailysignal.com/2020/03/30/de-blasio-nyc-officials-downplayed-covid-19-threat-after-trump-restricted-travel-to-china-here-are-5-examples/ https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/new-york-citys-coronavirus-outbreak-has-exposed-bill-de-blasios-ineptitude Di Blazio. Put this irresponsible moron in jail (and his health commissioner Bardot too)!! Edited April 4, 2020 by SydneyBillsFan 1 1
billsfan1959 Posted April 4, 2020 Posted April 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, B-Man said: In Vermont you can only sell what the state approves........ WTF?? I am I missing something? Perhaps there is a good reason. If so, and if anyone out there knows what it is, please share.
GG Posted April 4, 2020 Posted April 4, 2020 1 minute ago, billsfan1959 said: They have been building them. Honestly, I don't think this country is going to run out of ventilators or hospital beds. There were predictions that there were going to be shortages of both over a week ago, and people were going to be left in the halways to die. It hasn't happened yet. I don't believe it will. I think they have a much better idea of how this virus might spread here, what places will be vulnerable, and when. It is a matter of reallocating existing resources and get manufacturing to the level (if not there now) to produce the equipment necessary as demand grows. Just my opinion based on what I have been reading. It's fruitless to look at US as a monolith. The resources and response should be built out from the most affected localities onward. The message should be - Look at NYC which didn't take it seriously until it was too late. Don't be like NYC and not take this seriously and avoid common sense prevention measures. 2
billsfan1959 Posted April 4, 2020 Posted April 4, 2020 4 hours ago, Buffalo_Gal said: Absolutely. Think like a criminal, not like a law abiding person. 3 hours ago, shoshin said: How about we think like people trying to reopen an economy by controlling the spread of a disease? 5 minutes ago, B-Man said: Criminals are going to criminal - particularly when you are at your most vulnerable... 1 1
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