SoCal Deek Posted April 1, 2020 Posted April 1, 2020 3 minutes ago, jrober38 said: Are any of the players you mentioned responsible for the lack of testing? I’ve never been convinced of the whole Korean testing story. How did they have tests for a disease no one had ever tested for before?
BullBuchanan Posted April 1, 2020 Posted April 1, 2020 1 minute ago, dubs said: that’s a strawman argument if I ever saw one. of course corporations should also be practicing the same level of responsibility. You’ll get no argument from me on that. But again, gets back to individuals. We as a society allow this to happen because we don’t take any responsibility for the people we put in DC and in state houses. Strawman? How are you getting there? You're making a claim that people are in financial straits because they outspend their means, while you seemingly have no problem with corporations doing the same and getting a massive bailout while those same people foot the bill yet again. Poor behavior of the oligarchy is rewarded with second chances, while poor behavior of the proletariat is punished and scolded. You're expecting something of people that for a lot of them is quite impossible, while the folks that have the ability accept no responsibility for their actions. 1
Albwan Posted April 1, 2020 Posted April 1, 2020 (edited) 17 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: I see this thread has been infected with its own virus... Fortunately, BullBuchanan and jrober38 just temporarily bring the collective IQ down to room temperature. They can't cause any real lasting harm... ...unless they reproduce You've chosen to ignore content by BullBuchanan. Always practice social distancing. 5-10 mins of Juan Williams is all the left i can tolerate in a day. Edited April 1, 2020 by Albwan 3 4
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted April 1, 2020 Posted April 1, 2020 Just now, jrober38 said: Are any of the players you mentioned responsible for the lack of testing? You’ve been vocal that the feds $#@#ed this up, and are giving a pass to the leaders of the state. I’m simply applying your logic to the crisis here. I’m thinking if a governor and US senator can tell me the president is a bigot, a liar, and support allegations of treasonous behavior, they certainly could have gotten out in front of this virus. It seems fairly obvious, in retrospect, that Cuomo should have called for an Italian-style quarantine of NYC, or a New Rochelle-esque establishment of boundaries around the 5 boroughs. Yes? 1
BullBuchanan Posted April 1, 2020 Posted April 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: I’ve never been convinced of the whole Korean testing story. How did they have tests for a disease no one had ever tested for before? "The South Korean company Kogenebiotech developed a clinical grade, PCR-based SARS-CoV-2 detection kit (PowerChek Coronavirus) on 28 January 2020.[119][120] It looks for the "E" gene shared by all beta coronaviruses, and the RdRp gene specific to SARS-CoV-2.[121] Other companies in the country, such as Solgent and Seegene, also developed versions of clinical grade detection kits, named DiaPlexQ and Allplex 2019-nCoV Assay, respectively, in February 2020." This isn't a "brand new" virus, just a different version. We dealt with sars-cov-1 17 years ago, so they knew where to start.
dubs Posted April 1, 2020 Posted April 1, 2020 Just now, BullBuchanan said: Strawman? How are you getting there? You're making a claim that people are in financial straits because they outspend their means, while you seemingly have no problem with corporations doing the same and getting a massive bailout while those same people foot the bill yet again. Poor behavior of the oligarchy is rewarded with second chances, while poor behavior of the proletariat is punished and scolded. You're expecting something of people that for a lot of them is quite impossible, while the folks that have the ability accept no responsibility for their actions. Is this Karl Marx? Proletariat? if people accept no responsibility for themselves they will be given none. There is no argument from me on crony capitalism, none. It surely exists. But rather than peddle Marxist BS, maybe go the other way and argue for more freedom and acceptance of that responsibility.
jrober38 Posted April 1, 2020 Posted April 1, 2020 1 minute ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: You’ve been vocal that the feds $#@#ed this up, and are giving a pass to the leaders of the state. I’m simply applying your logic to the crisis here. I’m thinking if a governor and US senator can tell me the president is a bigot, a liar, and support allegations of treasonous behavior, they certainly could have gotten out in front of this virus. It seems fairly obvious, in retrospect, that Cuomo should have called for an Italian-style quarantine of NYC, or a New Rochelle-esque establishment of boundaries around the 5 boroughs. Yes? You're just deflecting. Most people in this thread agree that the biggest problem has been the lack of testing, which is completely controlled by the Federal Government. Pretending the NY State has the same resources as the US Federal Government is a complete joke. 2
BullBuchanan Posted April 1, 2020 Posted April 1, 2020 4 minutes ago, dubs said: Is this Karl Marx? Proletariat? if people accept no responsibility for themselves they will be given none. There is no argument from me on crony capitalism, none. It surely exists. But rather than peddle Marxist BS, maybe go the other way and argue for more freedom and acceptance of that responsibility. I don't consider it BS, and I'm not a communist. I've just witnessed capitalism nonstop failures throughout my entire life, even as someone who plays the game to a reasonably high level compared to most, but that's not really what we're talking about. 8 minutes ago, jrober38 said: You're just deflecting. Most people in this thread agree that the biggest problem has been the lack of testing, which is completely controlled by the Federal Government. Pretending the NY State has the same resources as the US Federal Government is a complete joke. States weren't even allowed to test at all until recently. How people think NY is more to blame than the feds is insane. I'm not a big fan of Cuomo or any Neo-Liberal, but he's done a very admirable job managing this crisis and has shown more leadership than probably anyone in the country throughout this disaster.https://www.wgrz.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/president-trump-gives-nys-permission-to-start-using-state-labs-to-test-for-covid-19/71-06220bff-d01b-497b-a424-1cc2614e5875 1
GG Posted April 1, 2020 Posted April 1, 2020 7 minutes ago, jrober38 said: You're just deflecting. Most people in this thread agree that the biggest problem has been the lack of testing, which is completely controlled by the Federal Government. Pretending the NY State has the same resources as the US Federal Government is a complete joke. That is patently false and rewriting history. If your position was correct, then Cuomo and Diblasio would have been banging the table in February for more testing. Instead they told everyone to carry on with their lives, but be vigilant. The city and state officials also didn't take it seriously until early March. South Korea didn't stem the decline due to tesing. They did it by staying away from one another, wearing masks and keeping very clean. 3 1
dubs Posted April 1, 2020 Posted April 1, 2020 1 minute ago, BullBuchanan said: I don't consider it BS, and I'm not a communist. I've just witnessed capitalism nonstop failures throughout my entire life, even as someone who plays the game to a reasonably high level compared to most, but that's not really what we're talking about. it’s not capitalism that’s failed. We have the highest standard of living in the history of the planet, thanks to capitalism. What’s failed is our culture. There’s great things about our culture, no doubt, but we have serious issues as well. 3
Rob's House Posted April 1, 2020 Posted April 1, 2020 14 minutes ago, jrober38 said: You're just deflecting. Most people in this thread agree that the biggest problem has been the lack of testing, which is completely controlled by the Federal Government. Pretending the NY State has the same resources as the US Federal Government is a complete joke. Why didn't you answer my question? What should have been done wrt testing? 2
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted April 1, 2020 Posted April 1, 2020 13 minutes ago, jrober38 said: You're just deflecting. Most people in this thread agree that the biggest problem has been the lack of testing, which is completely controlled by the Federal Government. Pretending the NY State has the same resources as the US Federal Government is a complete joke. And just like that, you’re out of opinions on crisis management. I’ve given credit to Cuomo, who is a corrupt politician overseeing a corrupt NYS political system, for his handling of this crisis to this point. What I’ve said is demonstrably true—had he acted decisively and worked with deblasio to lock NYC down, the death toll would be lower than it’s going to be. Everyone banging on Trump seems to know what actions should have been taken early on, in hindsight, and I’d say again, if that’s the standard, let’s look further back when this crisis was percolating in China and study what Cuomo and the dems were saying then-not now. I don’t play that game, it’s useless and frankly, we live in a free society and this sort of thing can wreak havoc on a free society. I hope for the best for my family, the best for your and everyone in between. However, if I was going to play that game, I’d be wonder why Cuomo had alligator arms on shutting down NY, and why he chose profit over people. 2
jrober38 Posted April 1, 2020 Posted April 1, 2020 1 minute ago, GG said: That is patently false and rewriting history. If your position was correct, then Cuomo and Diblasio would have been banging the table in February for more testing. Instead they told everyone to carry on with their lives, but be vigilant. The city and state officials also didn't take it seriously until early March. South Korea didn't stem the decline due to tesing. They did it by staying away from one another, wearing masks and keeping very clean. This is incorrect. South Korea did minimal social distancing. They did extensive trace testing (they did 200k tests in the time the US did 1k) and they identified who had the virus and then they quarantined them. There are two ways to contain this. 1. Lock everything down, extreme social distancing. 2. Massive testing South Korea took door #2. Just now, leh-nerd skin-erd said: And just like that, you’re out of opinions on crisis management. I’ve given credit to Cuomo, who is a corrupt politician overseeing a corrupt NYS political system, for his handling of this crisis to this point. What I’ve said is demonstrably true—had he acted decisively and worked with deblasio to lock NYC down, the death toll would be lower than it’s going to be. Everyone banging on Trump seems to know what actions should have been taken early on, in hindsight, and I’d say again, if that’s the standard, let’s look further back when this crisis was percolating in China and study what Cuomo and the dems were saying then-not now. I don’t play that game, it’s useless and frankly, we live in a free society and this sort of thing can wreak havoc on a free society. I hope for the best for my family, the best for your and everyone in between. However, if I was going to play that game, I’d be wonder why Cuomo had alligator arms on shutting down NY, and why he chose profit over people. Cuomo wasn't getting a daily briefings from the CDC on the COVID-19 outbreak in December and January. There's supposed to be a reason these things are centrally directed by the Federal Government. Imagine if another country attacked the USA, would it fall on the Governors to organize the military defense? Of course not!!!
BullBuchanan Posted April 1, 2020 Posted April 1, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, dubs said: it’s not capitalism that’s failed. We have the highest standard of living in the history of the planet, thanks to capitalism. What’s failed is our culture. There’s great things about our culture, no doubt, but we have serious issues as well. We do? Who is we? The US ranks #1 in nothing but cost of healthcare. We rank among thrid world countries in infant mortality rate, life expectancy, happiness and education just to name a view. We aren't even in the top 10 of GDP per capita. "America #1" has been repeated so often we all assume it must be true, even though it really isn't even close. 7 minutes ago, Rob's House said: Why didn't you answer my question? What should have been done wrt testing? We should have used an existing test and used all of our economic might to massively produce, distribute and perform tests followed by isolation and early access to ventilation, which China discovered was key to enhanced survival rates. Equipment for PPE and treatment should have been made top priority Edited April 1, 2020 by BullBuchanan 1
Q-baby! Posted April 1, 2020 Posted April 1, 2020 11 minutes ago, GG said: That is patently false and rewriting history. If your position was correct, then Cuomo and Diblasio would have been banging the table in February for more testing. Instead they told everyone to carry on with their lives, but be vigilant. The city and state officials also didn't take it seriously until early March. South Korea didn't stem the decline due to tesing. They did it by staying away from one another, wearing masks and keeping very clean. All 38 million people in a confined space in Seoul? 1
GG Posted April 1, 2020 Posted April 1, 2020 1 minute ago, jrober38 said: This is incorrect. South Korea did minimal social distancing. They did extensive trace testing (they did 200k tests in the time the US did 1k) and they identified who had the virus and then they quarantined them. There are two ways to contain this. 1. Lock everything down, extreme social distancing. 2. Massive testing South Korea took door #2. Korean culture is already adept at social distancing, where there's not much of a change in regular routine. Because this virus isn't transmitted through air, it's easier to stem in a culture that doesn't have as much hand to hand contact. Meanwhile in NY, a week after officials told everyone to chill and stay away from one another, people still had close get togethers 1
meazza Posted April 1, 2020 Posted April 1, 2020 11 minutes ago, GG said: That is patently false and rewriting history. If your position was correct, then Cuomo and Diblasio would have been banging the table in February for more testing. Instead they told everyone to carry on with their lives, but be vigilant. The city and state officials also didn't take it seriously until early March. South Korea didn't stem the decline due to tesing. They did it by staying away from one another, wearing masks and keeping very clean. People bringing up South Korea and Taiwan have obviously never visited Asia in their lifetimes. It's a completely different society. 1
jrober38 Posted April 1, 2020 Posted April 1, 2020 1 minute ago, GG said: Korean culture is already adept at social distancing, where there's not much of a change in regular routine. Because this virus isn't transmitted through air, it's easier to stem in a culture that doesn't have as much hand to hand contact. Meanwhile in NY, a week after officials told everyone to chill and stay away from one another, people still had close get togethers People did that all over the world. People are still doing it in Florida today.
BullBuchanan Posted April 1, 2020 Posted April 1, 2020 (edited) 1 minute ago, meazza said: People bringing up South Korea and Taiwan have obviously never visited Asia in their lifetimes. It's a completely different society. How about Germany? "According to experts, Germany’s case fatality rate is so low due to its widespread testing. “In some countries only very symptomatic cases are tested (e.g. in Italy) and in others a broader testing strategy is done (e.g. in Germany),” writes Dr. Dietrich Rothenbacher, the director of the Institute for Epidemiology at Ulm University in Germany, in an email to TIME. That means that while Germany is currently the country with the fifth-most infections in the world, chances are that it has fewer unreported cases than many other countries, where testing is harder to come by." https://time.com/5812555/germany-coronavirus-deaths/ Edited April 1, 2020 by BullBuchanan 1
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