mannc Posted March 30, 2020 Posted March 30, 2020 1 minute ago, Deranged Rhino said: How irresponsible to suggest that it might not be necessary to quarantine 330 million people indefinitely. 4 1
Foxx Posted March 30, 2020 Posted March 30, 2020 On 3/15/2020 at 8:42 AM, Bob in Mich said: The worst case projections are if we do not get control of the outbreak. Taking precautions and slowing the group transmission rate will lower the most dire death prediction numbers....hopefully. The logic behind 'flattening the curve' seems to make a lot of sense. If we can keep the need for the most scarce resources (like breathing machines) spread out over time, we can keep more people alive. The eventual number of infections might be the same either way but if the requirement for the ventilators doesn't exceed available machines, those that need them to live will be able to get them. Those calling for extra caution really can never 'win'. They are currently looked at as like Chicken Little, and so foolish. If generally speaking, slowdown measures are not followed, worst case scenarios could play out and lots of folks perish. If folks listen to the warnings and take slowdown measures, less people will die and the Chicken Littles will be criticized later for scaring everyone when, 'look, only x thousands died'. 14 minutes ago, Bob in Mich said: Want to discuss this post? What was wrong in this post? sure. what your logic fails to account for, is the ramifications of an economic downturn. it is pretty well known that as the economy goes south, the death rates go up. this would then beg the question of, is the cure worse than the cause? if the coronavirus kills "x" here in the US, what is the mortality rate of the resulting economic consequences that are being implemented as the remedy? the one thing the cure is going to present, is a long term effect that is going to be hard to measure. can you say with complete confidence that the cure will not be worse than the cause? not saying your wrong but i'm also not saying your right, just that the complete picture is not as easy to paint as it seems you would like to imply. 1
njbuff Posted March 30, 2020 Posted March 30, 2020 17 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Brutal: People like Bob get their news from her, and wonder why they're so badly misinformed. Richard Madcow is one angry man. 1 2
mannc Posted March 30, 2020 Posted March 30, 2020 10 minutes ago, Foxx said: there is an equation that can get a pretty accurate guesstimate for total cases, both diagnosed and not. this is how they arrive at the seasonal flu numbers. however, those factors are not readily known and at best, would be wildly unreliable at the '100 cases' level. Yeah, the idea that anyone can pinpoint the date at which Italy or the US reached 100 total cases is simply laughable. And for people to use those alleged dates to forecast doom for millions of Americans is pretty reprehensible.
B-Man Posted March 30, 2020 Posted March 30, 2020 BUREAUCRACY KILLS: Trump in the time of COVID-19: slashing red tape again like he was 39. “Easing rules on everything from telemedicine to interstate trucking, the president and his coronavirus team spur creative repurposing and emergency adaptation to fight pandemic. If the president’s popular approval ratings are reaching new highs, it may be due in part to the Trump the public is seeing on display at the daily briefings of his Coronavirus Task Force. T his Trump represents in many ways a return to form for the president, a rebirth of the hard-driving, can-do developer who famously slashed through red tape to restore New York’s iconic Wollman Skating Rink under budget and ahead of schedule 34 years ago.” .
Deranged Rhino Posted March 30, 2020 Posted March 30, 2020 https://www.wsj.com/articles/an-update-on-the-coronavirus-treatment-11585509827
Warren Zevon Posted March 30, 2020 Posted March 30, 2020 5 minutes ago, njbuff said: Richard Madcow is one angry man.
billsfan1959 Posted March 30, 2020 Posted March 30, 2020 37 minutes ago, Bob in Mich said: How is it helpful to claim we have done a good job when we actually haven't? Yes, we are going as fast as possible now. That should have happened weeks earlier though. You can choose to ignore those poor decisions if you wish. How is it helpful to keep whining about what you think SHOULD have been done. No country was prepared for this. No leader was prepared for this. Outside of a few outliers, there are no countries with any significant number of cases that are faring any better than this country is right now. That's the truth. China lied to the entire world, with the WHO as its mouthpiece and nobody was ready for what they were about to face. Now we are in it. The crisis is here and how we respond is the measure of who we are. Maybe it's the fact I have spent almost my entire adult life as a public servant in the military and law enforcement; but, whatever the reason, I seem to have little tolerence for people that do nothing but panic or complain incessantly from the sidelines during a time of crisis. Just a thought from Teddy Roosevelt: "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." #BePartOfTheSolutionNotTheProblem 3 1 2
Bob in Mich Posted March 30, 2020 Posted March 30, 2020 6 minutes ago, Foxx said: sure. what your logic fails to account for, is the ramifications of an economic downturn. it is pretty well known that as the economy goes south, the death rates go up. this would then beg the question of, is the cure worse than the cause? if the coronavirus kills "x" here in the US, what is the mortality rate of the resulting economic consequences that are being implemented as the remedy? the one thing the cure is going to present, is a long term effect that is going to be hard to measure. can you say with complete confidence that the cure will not be worse than the cause? not saying your wrong but i'm also not saying your right, just that the complete picture is not as easy to paint as it seems you would like to imply. Flatten this initial wave to a manageable level of new cases. Just get enough breathing machines and masks to treat everyone that could recover if they had a functioning doctor, nurse, and a machine. We are not there yet specifically in the pending hot spots. Once there, we will be able to open up the stay home orders. That may be weeks or perhaps a few months at worst. I know one thing for certain and that is dead people will not revive the economy
Bob in Mich Posted March 30, 2020 Posted March 30, 2020 5 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: How is it helpful to keep whining about what you think SHOULD have been done. No country was prepared for this. No leader was prepared for this. Outside of a few outliers, there are no countries with any significant number of cases that are faring any better than this country is right now. That's the truth. China lied to the entire world, with the WHO as its mouthpiece and nobody was ready for what they were about to face. Now we are in it. The crisis is here and how we respond is the measure of who we are. Maybe it's the fact I have spent almost my entire adult life as a public servant in the military and law enforcement; but, whatever the reason, I seem to have little tolerence for people that do nothing but panic or complain incessantly from the sidelines during a time of crisis. Just a thought from Teddy Roosevelt: "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." #BePartOfTheSolutionNotTheProblem Well, one reason that you point out mistakes is to learn from them. We have the ability to see how this crisis has developed in several different countries. Learn from what has worked. Also, learn who makes good decisions in our country and so who is a good leader versus who has made bad decisions and perhaps should not be a leader. Trying to get posters here to take this seriously is/was not inciting panic. It was sound advice unlike the advice of several posters around here. Does that 'bad advice' shoe fit you?
3rdnlng Posted March 30, 2020 Posted March 30, 2020 56 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: **************** 30 more days will never hold. It'll get violent before then. We've freely given up our rights to help the cause -- that won't last. People will test the limits and then authorities will have a real decision to make. Do a lot of those cars there bounce up & down? 3
IDBillzFan Posted March 30, 2020 Posted March 30, 2020 30 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: How is it helpful to keep whining about what you think SHOULD have been done. It's been my experience through this that you can tell a lot about a person based on their priorities during events like this. Some people simply lack the intellectual ability to focus on the task at hand. Others lack the emotional ability to have compassion for those who are struggling. Spend a little time here and that list comes more clearly into view. All blame. No focus or empathy. Kinda like Hillary. Hell, even Joe Biden is trying to contribute by explaining all the things he would do three days after Trump already did them. 3
Foxx Posted March 30, 2020 Posted March 30, 2020 36 minutes ago, Bob in Mich said: Flatten this initial wave to a manageable level of new cases. Just get enough breathing machines and masks to treat everyone that could recover if they had a functioning doctor, nurse, and a machine. We are not there yet specifically in the pending hot spots. Once there, we will be able to open up the stay home orders. That may be weeks or perhaps a few months at worst. I know one thing for certain and that is dead people will not revive the economy please define your, 'flattening of the initial wave to a manageable level'. does it include current measures known as 'stay at home' mandates? are these measures to be implemented community wide, statewide, across the nation as a whole? how do we revive the economy? again, is your cure going to be worse than the cause? how do you know for a fact? 5
Doc Posted March 30, 2020 Posted March 30, 2020 5 minutes ago, IDBillzFan said: It's been my experience through this that you can tell a lot about a person based on their priorities during events like this. Some people simply lack the intellectual ability to focus on the task at hand. Others lack the emotional ability to have compassion for those who are struggling. Spend a little time here and that list comes more clearly into view. All blame. No focus or empathy. Kinda like Hillary. Hell, even Joe Biden is trying to contribute by explaining all the things he would do three days after Trump already did them. Except he wouldn't have banned travel, which would have let hundreds, if not thousands, more cases into the country.
Cinga Posted March 30, 2020 Posted March 30, 2020 1 hour ago, mannc said: Given how little is known about CV19, as opposed to the flu, those “total case” numbers really are guesswork at this point. That’s why there is so little agreement on the “mortality rate”, as well; it’s impossible to say what the mortality rate is when we don’t have a handle on the actual number of infections. Sort of... If we use numbers being tossed around of only 20% of the people infected showing signs of infection, then we can take the current 144,672 (the number tested positive) and multiply it by 5 and we have a rough 723,360 have been infected. But this would blow the mortality rate narrative totally out of the water though, with .0036 (3/10th of 1 percent) to the current rate shown of .017 or 1.7% 3
whatdrought Posted March 30, 2020 Posted March 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, Cinga said: Sort of... If we use numbers being tossed around of only 20% of the people infected showing signs of infection, then we can take the current 144,672 (the number tested positive) and multiply it by 5 and we have a rough 723,360 have been infected. But this would blow the mortality rate narrative totally out of the water though, with .0036 (3/10th of 1 percent) to the current rate shown of .017 or 1.7% Not to mention people who have mild symptoms, or those who have had symptoms but recovered before testing became available. It’s really hard to place any definitive pin on any data marker with this whole deal. 5
billsfan1959 Posted March 30, 2020 Posted March 30, 2020 4 minutes ago, Cinga said: Sort of... If we use numbers being tossed around of only 20% of the people infected showing signs of infection, then we can take the current 144,672 (the number tested positive) and multiply it by 5 and we have a rough 723,360 have been infected. But this would blow the mortality rate narrative totally out of the water though, with .0036 (3/10th of 1 percent) to the current rate shown of .017 or 1.7% Shhhh....that kind of talk will not go over well 3 1
Kevbeau Posted March 30, 2020 Posted March 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Buffalo_Gal said: What?....the same people who got caught using footage from a Kentucky gun range masquerading as Syria wouldn’t dare use Italy footage depicted as NY. 4
Taro T Posted March 30, 2020 Posted March 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, Kevbeau said: What?....the same people who got caught using footage from a Kentucky gun range masquerading as Syria wouldn’t dare use Italy footage depicted as NY. Wondering how often they DON'T get caught when claiming footage from 1 location is really someplace else? 4
Buffalo_Gal Posted March 30, 2020 Posted March 30, 2020 Link Workers at some Amazon facilities in New York City held a walk out Monday over the company's safety protocols during the COVID-19 pandemic, while employees at the grocery delivery service Instacart were considering a strike. "All employers need to prioritize the health and safety of their workforce at this time," said Stuart Appelbaum, president of the Retail, Wholesale and Department Store Union. "Unfortunately, Amazon appears to be prioritizing maximizing its enormous profits even over its employees' safety, and that is unacceptable." Meanwhile, Instacart's gig workers, called "shoppers," say delivery service puts them at risk to coronavirus exposure and that the company should offer more protections, including hazard pay. "Basically, I'm playing Russian roulette every time I go out there, every time I shop, every time I come into a grocery store," employee Mia Kelly said. The in-store shoppers are demanding the company provide hand sanitizers and disinfectants, hazard pay of $5 per order, and an expansion to the current sick-pay policy. </snip> 1
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