BillsFanNC Posted July 30, 2023 Posted July 30, 2023 Hey Qanon Frank... A conflict of interest that might be relevant to disclose, or nah? 1
The Frankish Reich Posted July 30, 2023 Posted July 30, 2023 5 hours ago, Doc said: You'd think no one would even try talking about "competing theories" after everyone has pretty much admitted it came from the lab. Starting to be convinced by the Fake Doc theory. Honestly, if you are a physician, read it! 1
The Frankish Reich Posted July 31, 2023 Posted July 31, 2023 8 hours ago, BillsFanNC said: Hey Qanon Frank... A conflict of interest that might be relevant to disclose, or nah? I break my rule of responding to the Look At Me posters simply because the proposition here is so idiotic. Quammen is "friends" with someone (not shocking in that he has been investigating and reporting on animal-to-human virus transmission for over a decade, and wrote a well received 600 page book on it in 2012) and he needs to "disclose" that? Not a financial relationship, not a family relationship, not what we today call an "intimate" relationship. But they've got to go digging for something to undermine a sound article. 1
Joe Ferguson forever Posted July 31, 2023 Posted July 31, 2023 6 minutes ago, Doc said: I'm starting to be convinces you're not very smart. I guess that makes us even. No, he’s shown his legal chops while you’ve shown your medical ignorance. Not the same at all. One is pathetic and the other is not 1
Doc Posted July 31, 2023 Posted July 31, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said: Starting to be convinced by the Fake Doc theory. Honestly, if you are a physician, read it! I'm starting to be convinced you're not very smart. I guess that makes us even. 4 minutes ago, redtail hawk said: No, he’s shown his legal chops while you’ve shown your medical ignorance. Not the same at all. One is pathetic and the other is not Medical ignorance? LOL! Tell me, what is the host of Wuhan virus? It's been 4 years now and still nothing. Meanwhile there's a building in the same city... Edited July 31, 2023 by Doc 1
Joe Ferguson forever Posted July 31, 2023 Posted July 31, 2023 4 minutes ago, Doc said: I'm starting to be convinced you're not very smart. I guess that makes us even. Medical ignorance? LOL! Tell me, what is the host of Wuhan virus? It's been 4 years now and still nothing. Meanwhile there's a building in the same city... This isn’t medical knowledge. This is a small amount of news knowledge. Btw, anesthesiologists are not known as experts in infectious disease but they know the basics. You don’t seem to 1
Doc Posted July 31, 2023 Posted July 31, 2023 1 minute ago, redtail hawk said: This isn’t medical knowledge. This is a small amount of news knowledge. Btw, anesthesiologists are not known as experts in infectious disease but they know the basics. You don’t seem to It's not even that: it's common sense. If an outbreak happens in a city with a lab that had been studying the pathogen that broke out, it came from the lab until proven otherwise. And your "medical knowledge" is nothing of the sort. It's merely gainsaying whatever Trump said. Which is what is truly pathetic. That's how you buy and continue to believe that an outbreak came from an unknown host which hasn't been identified in almost 4 years. 1 1
The Frankish Reich Posted July 31, 2023 Posted July 31, 2023 1 hour ago, Doc said: I'm starting to be convinced you're not very smart. I guess that makes us even. Medical ignorance? LOL! Tell me, what is the host of Wuhan virus? It's been 4 years now and still nothing. Meanwhile there's a building in the same city... Read the article. Quammen is not a doctor. He was a Rhodes scholar. He's a pretty smart guy. He sets out evidence and lack thereof for both sides of the argument. Actually three sides: accidental lab leak, deliberate leak, wet market. He's quite clear that because his bias as an investigator is in tracing animal-to-human transmission, which is closest to the wet market theory, he may be inclined to favor that theory. But it's fair, well-written, and ultimately agnostic. 1 1
The Frankish Reich Posted July 31, 2023 Posted July 31, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Doc said: If an outbreak happens in a city with a lab that had been studying the pathogen that broke out, it came from the lab until proven otherwise. Maybe you are a doctor. The kind that's had it drilled into him that when you hear hoofbeats, think zebras, not horses. All well and good. But sometimes you're not in the southeastern USA, you're in China, and there's all kinds of wild animals even more exotic than zebras from all over Asia living in cages to be slaughtered and eaten fresh by willing and superstitious people. Maybe you slept through epidemiology. The chapter on John Snow and cholera in London. Look at the maps of the locations of the first cases, clustered around the wet market. Nothing is conclusive. It is very much an open case. Edited July 31, 2023 by The Frankish Reich 1
Doc Posted July 31, 2023 Posted July 31, 2023 (edited) 22 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: Read the article. Quammen is not a doctor. He was a Rhodes scholar. He's a pretty smart guy. He sets out evidence and lack thereof for both sides of the argument. Actually three sides: accidental lab leak, deliberate leak, wet market. He's quite clear that because his bias as an investigator is in tracing animal-to-human transmission, which is closest to the wet market theory, he may be inclined to favor that theory. But it's fair, well-written, and ultimately agnostic. OK, fair enough and I retract what I said about you. I heard the wet market theory first and thought it was plausible and believed it. However after I found out that there was a BSL4 lab in Wuhan and that China was being secretive about it, I knew that is came from there. I've been waiting for the better part of 4 years for them to find the animal host and prove me wrong, but they haven't. At some point you need to give up the ghost and go with the most rational explanation, which is accidental lab leak. I'd need proof to believe it was intentional. Edited July 31, 2023 by Doc 1
The Frankish Reich Posted July 31, 2023 Posted July 31, 2023 19 minutes ago, Doc said: OK, fair enough and I retract what I said about you. I heard the wet market theory first and thought it was plausible and believed it. However after I found out that there was a BSL4 lab in Wuhan and that China was being secretive about it, I knew that is came from there. I've been waiting for the better part of 4 years for them to find the animal host and prove me wrong, but they haven't. At some point you need to give up the ghost and go with the most rational explanation, which is accidental lab leak. I'd need proof to believe it was intentional. Thanks. And that's a fair response. My relatively well informed layman's guess: 60/40 in favor of lab leak. But by no means settled. 1
BillsFanNC Posted July 31, 2023 Posted July 31, 2023 (edited) The friggin authors of the proximal origin paper in nature medicine, the paper that was the basis for the entire world reporting it came from a wet market, case closed, have recently had their private conversations released indicating that they themselves never fully believed in their own conclusion. In fact they believed at the time and from the very beginning that the lab leak was most likely. But their paper, published in a top tier prestigious scientific journal, served as a cudgel against anyone even suggesting the possibility of a lab leak. This behavior was beyond unscientific. It was scientific fraud. So of course the NYT is going to publish an article right around the same time as this information comes to light in order to muddy the waters. Well maybe both scenarios are possible now? That's what their going with, after smearing and silencing anyone who even suggested looking into the possibility of a lab leak before? Umm no, you don't get to do that now. Kindly ***** right off. Useful idiots love muddy waters. Right Qanon Frank? Edited July 31, 2023 by BillsFanNC 1
BillStime Posted July 31, 2023 Posted July 31, 2023 Natural selection - great job Big Ditz and Karen Psyop.
BillsFanNC Posted July 31, 2023 Posted July 31, 2023 (edited) 7 hours ago, Doc said: OK, fair enough and I retract what I said about you. I heard the wet market theory first and thought it was plausible and believed it. However after I found out that there was a BSL4 lab in Wuhan and that China was being secretive about it, I knew that is came from there. I've been waiting for the better part of 4 years for them to find the animal host and prove me wrong, but they haven't. At some point you need to give up the ghost and go with the most rational explanation, which is accidental lab leak. I'd need proof to believe it was intentional. I'll tell you this, as a scientist who has worked hands on in both BSL2 and BSL3 labs, there's no better way to have a non-accidental "accidental" leak of a dangerous virus than to purposely work with a bioengineered bsl3+ virus under bsl2 conditions. Which is what happened at WIV. Edited July 31, 2023 by BillsFanNC 1 1
BillsFanNC Posted July 31, 2023 Posted July 31, 2023 Would you look at that....Daszak, Quammen and Rasmussen all chumming it up! Crazy conspiracy stuff indeed. 1
BillsFanNC Posted July 31, 2023 Posted July 31, 2023 You want to read a book that takes a reasoned look at origins of covid, by an actual scientist, then read Alina Chan's book Viral. 1
Joe Ferguson forever Posted July 31, 2023 Posted July 31, 2023 8 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said: The kind that's had it drilled into him that when you hear hoofbeats, think zebras, not horses. great quote...and of course, we are all taught just the opposite excepting academic centers where zebras are more prevalent. I find it very strange that Doc won't read the linked article. Unquenchable thirst for knowledge is a near prerequisite for med school and later for practice. Maybe he had it and lost it. Maybe he never had it. Maybe he's an MD. Maybe not. Doesn't really matter x for the misrepresentation of credentials/training if not. Perhaps I'm cynical and overly skeptical but MAGA's and their leaders have often been proven dishonest. 1
SoCal Deek Posted July 31, 2023 Posted July 31, 2023 3 minutes ago, redtail hawk said: great quote...and of course, we are all taught just the opposite excepting academic centers where zebras are more prevalent. I find it very strange that Doc won't read the linked article. Unquenchable thirst for knowledge is a near prerequisite for med school and later for practice. Maybe he had it and lost it. Maybe he never had it. Maybe he's an MD. Maybe not. Doesn't really matter x for the misrepresentation of credentials/training if not. Perhaps I'm cynical and overly skeptical but MAGA's and their leaders have often been proven dishonest. “Unquenchable thirst for knowledge”…I’m gonna have to remember that one the next time they work to silence dissent in the midst of a health crisis. 1 2 1
BillsFanNC Posted July 31, 2023 Posted July 31, 2023 (edited) Again completely hilarious that @redtail hawk Quack MD is calling it strange to not want to read a non academic article about the origins of covid....when the very scientists and journalists he accepts as the be all end all authorities on covid wouldn't even allow other scientists to bring up the possibility of a lab leak without consequences. Projection of the most hilarious kind. But then again he's Quack MD for very good reasons. Edited July 31, 2023 by BillsFanNC
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