Chef Jim Posted December 9, 2021 Posted December 9, 2021 9 hours ago, billsfan5121 said: Lol. For all the noble people who got vaccinated for the greater good of humanity, I wonder how they’d feel about banning the sale of sugary or processed foods. Step One ✔️ https://reason.com/2020/10/10/berkeley-bans-so-called-junk-food-from-checkout-aisles/#:~:text=Last month%2C Berkeley%2C California%2C,phase in starting in 2022.
Big Blitz Posted December 9, 2021 Posted December 9, 2021 Why aren't the mandates working?? 'No end in sight': Massachusetts hospital flooded with patients amidst COVID surge Despite having one of the nation's highest vaccination rates, Massachusetts is in the midst of a full coronavirus resurgence. The state's daily case average is now at its highest point in nearly a year, and in the last month alone, new hospital admissions have more than doubled. https://abcnews.go.com/US/end-sight-massachusetts-hospital-flooded-patients-amidst-covid/story?id=81637572 1
plenzmd1 Posted December 9, 2021 Posted December 9, 2021 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Big Blitz said: Why aren't the mandates working?? 'No end in sight': Massachusetts hospital flooded with patients amidst COVID surge Despite having one of the nation's highest vaccination rates, Massachusetts is in the midst of a full coronavirus resurgence. The state's daily case average is now at its highest point in nearly a year, and in the last month alone, new hospital admissions have more than doubled. https://abcnews.go.com/US/end-sight-massachusetts-hospital-flooded-patients-amidst-covid/story?id=81637572 Key point in here Quote Although the majority -- between 60 and 75% -- of patients currently under care are unvaccinated, hospital officials have seen the impact of waning immunity over time. 72% fully vaxed... CDC says unvaxed 4X more likely to get Delta, and at LEAST 6X more likely to be hospitalized. Those numbers do not add up to 40% of people in hospital fully vaxed..the math just does not freaking work. Does it appear vax is working to keep people out of hospital..yes, marginally. Is this a pandemic of the unvaccinated? Hell no. Its a pandemic of the yet to be infected. And yet, we have people like @Sundancer who refuse to acknowledge these real world numbers and prefer studies by Pfizer and Moderna. No one on the vax is a religious choice team wants to consider the fact that Covid rates went way down last year in the spring as well, as flu and every other respiratory illness does. Is it not possible it was due to seasonality, not the result of the vax.?We are not supposed to mention numbers did same thing in 2020 without a vax? Really? Shocking, rates going up again now in the winter...team religion vax says its because efficacy wanes, get a booster...maybe its because the vax's don't work as advertised and its simply flu/respiratory illness season. But then, all the money from Vax and vax candidate funding might go away. Edited December 9, 2021 by plenzmd1 1
The Frankish Reich Posted December 9, 2021 Posted December 9, 2021 2 hours ago, plenzmd1 said: Although the majority -- between 60 and 75% -- of patients currently under care are unvaccinated, hospital officials have seen the impact of waning immunity over time. OK, here we go again. Math is hard. I get it. But your noble tutor never gives up on a child! No matter how many times that child gets held back!! MA 12+ population: roughly 5 million. MA vaccination rate: roughly 80%. So ... Total vaccinated 12+ in MA = 4 million. Total unvaccinated = 1 million. Number hospitalized with COVID: they say 450 at UMass. That's the biggest hospital. Let's say 1000 statewide. 60-75% of those unvaxxed. Let's play nice and use the lower range of 60%. That means 600 of those 1000 hospitalized with COVID are unvaxxed. 600 unvaxxed hospitalized out of total unvaxxed population of 1 million = 600 per million. 400 vaxxed hospitalized out of total vaxxed population of 4 million = 100 per million. [NOTE: see what I did there? I divided both sides by 4. So 400 per 4 million is the same as 100 per million. It's a neat trick and it works! Every time.] Ratio: 600 per million : 100 per million. [Watch out! Reducing fractions coming round the bend again ...] 6:1 You are 6 times more likely to be hospitalized in MA if you are unvaccinated. Which is kind of exactly what they've - those evil money-grubbing big pharma companies that the evil money-grubbing Donald J. Trump threw money at to produce vaccines before we even know they worked! - have been saying all along. It started out at perhaps 12:1, but we learned that immunity wanes over time. 6:1 is about what we get now without boosters. You're welcome. Let's do this again sometime! 1 1
Big Blitz Posted December 10, 2021 Posted December 10, 2021 Is the media covering Ron DeSantis killing people in the North? Look at these scum bags and BLAMING people how f...ing dare they: COVID hospitalizations: Pa. healthcare system at 'brink of collapse,' doctor says Health experts blame the recent uptick in cases on holiday gatherings and the unvaccinated. They say by far, the biggest concern is still the delta variant, but they are keeping an eye on the new omicron variant. https://6abc.com/covid-cases-coronavirus-hospital-rates-new-jersey-pennsylvania-delaware-philadelphia-omicron-updates/11317195/ Endemic. Time to move on. If the protocols aren't removed today then when? When?
plenzmd1 Posted December 10, 2021 Posted December 10, 2021 (edited) 10 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said: OK, here we go again. Math is hard. I get it. But your noble tutor never gives up on a child! No matter how many times that child gets held back!! MA 12+ population: roughly 5 million. MA vaccination rate: roughly 80%. So ... Total vaccinated 12+ in MA = 4 million. Total unvaccinated = 1 million. Number hospitalized with COVID: they say 450 at UMass. That's the biggest hospital. Let's say 1000 statewide. 60-75% of those unvaxxed. Let's play nice and use the lower range of 60%. That means 600 of those 1000 hospitalized with COVID are unvaxxed. 600 unvaxxed hospitalized out of total unvaxxed population of 1 million = 600 per million. 400 vaxxed hospitalized out of total vaxxed population of 4 million = 100 per million. [NOTE: see what I did there? I divided both sides by 4. So 400 per 4 million is the same as 100 per million. It's a neat trick and it works! Every time.] Ratio: 600 per million : 100 per million. [Watch out! Reducing fractions coming round the bend again ...] 6:1 You are 6 times more likely to be hospitalized in MA if you are unvaccinated. Which is kind of exactly what they've - those evil money-grubbing big pharma companies that the evil money-grubbing Donald J. Trump threw money at to produce vaccines before we even know they worked! - have been saying all along. It started out at perhaps 12:1, but we learned that immunity wanes over time. 6:1 is about what we get now without boosters. You're welcome. Let's do this again sometime! So, you are saying Vax people GET Covid at same rate as unvaxed? Edited December 10, 2021 by plenzmd1
SoCal Deek Posted December 10, 2021 Posted December 10, 2021 13 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said: OK, here we go again. Math is hard. I get it. But your noble tutor never gives up on a child! No matter how many times that child gets held back!! MA 12+ population: roughly 5 million. MA vaccination rate: roughly 80%. So ... Total vaccinated 12+ in MA = 4 million. Total unvaccinated = 1 million. Number hospitalized with COVID: they say 450 at UMass. That's the biggest hospital. Let's say 1000 statewide. 60-75% of those unvaxxed. Let's play nice and use the lower range of 60%. That means 600 of those 1000 hospitalized with COVID are unvaxxed. 600 unvaxxed hospitalized out of total unvaxxed population of 1 million = 600 per million. 400 vaxxed hospitalized out of total vaxxed population of 4 million = 100 per million. [NOTE: see what I did there? I divided both sides by 4. So 400 per 4 million is the same as 100 per million. It's a neat trick and it works! Every time.] Ratio: 600 per million : 100 per million. [Watch out! Reducing fractions coming round the bend again ...] 6:1 You are 6 times more likely to be hospitalized in MA if you are unvaccinated. Which is kind of exactly what they've - those evil money-grubbing big pharma companies that the evil money-grubbing Donald J. Trump threw money at to produce vaccines before we even know they worked! - have been saying all along. It started out at perhaps 12:1, but we learned that immunity wanes over time. 6:1 is about what we get now without boosters. You're welcome. Let's do this again sometime! That’s a bunch of math alright but it unfortunately only looks at one statistic to draw the conclusion you’re promoting. Since we all know that a very small proportion of the population ends up in the hospital whether vaccinated or not, shouldn’t your ‘study’ see if there’s another critical common denominator between the two groups? For example, what if turned out that only left handed people, vaccinated and unvaccinated, are in the hospital? Why would right handed people need to get vaccinated?
The Frankish Reich Posted December 10, 2021 Posted December 10, 2021 4 hours ago, plenzmd1 said: So, you are saying Vax people GET Covid at same rate as unvaxed? 1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said: That’s a bunch of math alright Proving my point.
billsfan5121 Posted December 10, 2021 Posted December 10, 2021 1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said: That’s a bunch of math alright but it unfortunately only looks at one statistic to draw the conclusion you’re promoting. Since we all know that a very small proportion of the population ends up in the hospital whether vaccinated or not, shouldn’t your ‘study’ see if there’s another critical common denominator between the two groups? For example, what if turned out that only left handed people, vaccinated and unvaccinated, are in the hospital? Why would right handed people need to get vaccinated? I’m gonna go out on a limb and say there’s a commonality with hospital statistics, and it isn’t vaccine status. I’d be willing to bet the common factor here is age/health. But I would also assume that message wouldn’t be pushed because that wouldn’t fit the fear narrative being pushed. I had a random thought the other day. Why is it that when someone else gets COVID, like say a football player, we just know/assume they are out a week and then back the following week? Why is there no panic when we hear “AJ Klein gets put on the COVID list?” If COVID really is that bad, why are we assuming he’ll be back next week? Are any of us really thinking he might die? No. We know he’s gonna be fine. Now think about that. When someone else gets COVID (especially a public figure), we don’t worry and just assume everything will be back to normal. To me, it’s like flying. When I fly, I feel like the plane is going to go down. I’m scared of it. But when someone else flies, I assume their trip will be ok and we’ll see them when they land. So when I fly, there’s a problem with the plane. When someone else flies, all is well. Now wouldn’t we just say that’s a me problem and not a plane problem? I’m paranoid when it comes to flying? So if someone just assumes/knows someone else who gets COVID will be ok but they fear for themselves, isn’t that the same? It’s a fear/paranoia problem regarding COVID? 3
plenzmd1 Posted December 10, 2021 Posted December 10, 2021 33 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: Proving my point. Again, with the non answers. Your math assumes the vaccine provides zero protection against actually getting Covid and vaxed and unvaxed contract at same rate. Is that your contention?
The Frankish Reich Posted December 10, 2021 Posted December 10, 2021 1 minute ago, plenzmd1 said: Again, with the non answers. Your math assumes the vaccine provides zero protection against actually getting Covid and vaxed and unvaxed contract at same rate. Is that your contention? We know you struggle with math. But reading comprehension doesn't seem to be your forte either. No. No, I did not "assume" any such thing. I corrected you on a misinterpretation of what COVID hospitalization rates in Massachusetts mean. What you cited had nothing to do with positive test rates, etc. Please read it again. And if you have a dispute with my math - the conclusion that, based on the Mass numbers, you are 6X more likely to be hospitalized with COVID - please address that, not some other numbers nobody is talking about in this discussion.
plenzmd1 Posted December 10, 2021 Posted December 10, 2021 Just now, The Frankish Reich said: We know you struggle with math. But reading comprehension doesn't seem to be your forte either. No. No, I did not "assume" any such thing. I corrected you on a misinterpretation of what COVID hospitalization rates in Massachusetts mean. What you cited had nothing to do with positive test rates, etc. Please read it again. And if you have a dispute with my math - the conclusion that, based on the Mass numbers, you are 6X more likely to be hospitalized with COVID - please address that, not some other numbers nobody is talking about in this discussion. The math you used assumed same rate of Covid infection in both vax and unvaxxed. Do you agree with that or should you adjust the math with the 4.6X the CDC uses as protection against contracting Covid? That where your math is off. My contention has been since about September the vaccine does not stop people from getting or transmitting Covid. Is it a therapeutic? Yes...i have never argued that. Should we be basing all our public health decisions on the fact we call it a vaccine when it is clearly not working as intended in terms of the spread of Covid ?
plenzmd1 Posted December 10, 2021 Posted December 10, 2021 5 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: k, dont answer the question again...why i stay off of here...dolts like you.
The Frankish Reich Posted December 10, 2021 Posted December 10, 2021 3 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: k, dont answer the question again...why i stay off of here...dolts like you. I'm willing to argue a point with anyone, but that's just impossible when people even try to comprehend what a statistic means. That goes for COVID stats, football stats, whatever. I was obviously correct - TWICE - in walking you through why the stats you cited don't mean what you say they mean. I believe I've made zero progress. Serious question: how much math did you do in high school/higher education?
ALF Posted December 10, 2021 Posted December 10, 2021 Covid-19 patients at this hospital are dying 'at a rate we've never seen die before' -- and it's taking a toll on health care workers "Since January, we've had about 289 deaths; 75% are unvaccinated people," Dover said. "And the very few (vaccinated people) who passed away all were more than 6 months out from their shot. So we've not had a single person who has had a booster shot die from Covid." But this week Michigan had more patients hospitalized for Covid-19 than ever before. Covid-19 hospitalizations jumped 88% in the past month, according to the Michigan Health & Hospital Association. https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/09/us/hospital-covid-19-deaths-michigan/index.html
ALF Posted December 10, 2021 Posted December 10, 2021 (edited) Governor Kathy Hochul announces statewide mask mandate for New York effective December 13 for all businesses and venues Businesses or venues that require proof of vaccination to enter will be exempt from the mandate. Governor Hochul says the mask requirement or proof of vaccination will go into effect on December 13th until Jan 15th. The policy applies to anyone ages two years old and older, any time they are indoors at a business or venue. https://www.wkbw.com/news/coronavirus/governor-kathy-hochul-announces-statewide-mask-mandate-for-new-york-effective-december-13-for-all-businesses-and-venues Edited December 10, 2021 by ALF 2
dpberr Posted December 10, 2021 Posted December 10, 2021 (edited) 55 minutes ago, ALF said: Governor Kathy Hochul announces statewide mask mandate for New York effective December 13 for all businesses and venues Businesses or venues that require proof of vaccination to enter will be exempt from the mandate. Governor Hochul says the mask requirement or proof of vaccination will go into effect on December 13th until Jan 15th. The policy applies to anyone ages two years old and older, any time they are indoors at a business or venue. https://www.wkbw.com/news/coronavirus/governor-kathy-hochul-announces-statewide-mask-mandate-for-new-york-effective-december-13-for-all-businesses-and-venues Unless people restrict the power, the powerful will enjoy flexing it. She's batshit crazy. If she's elected, NY gets what it deserves. Edited December 10, 2021 by dpberr 1
B-Man Posted December 10, 2021 Posted December 10, 2021 (edited) I have both my covid shots and my booster. I am NOT wearing a mask again. 1 hour ago, ALF said: Governor Kathy Hochul announces statewide mask mandate for New York effective December 13 for all businesses and venues Businesses or venues that require proof of vaccination to enter will be exempt from the mandate. Governor Hochul says the mask requirement or proof of vaccination will go into effect on December 13th until Jan 15th. The policy applies to anyone ages two years old and older, any time they are indoors at a business or venue. https://www.wkbw.com/news/coronavirus/governor-kathy-hochul-announces-statewide-mask-mandate-for-new-york-effective-december-13-for-all-businesses-and-venues Edited December 10, 2021 by B-Man 1 1
SoCal Deek Posted December 10, 2021 Posted December 10, 2021 5 hours ago, billsfan5121 said: I’m gonna go out on a limb and say there’s a commonality with hospital statistics, and it isn’t vaccine status. I’d be willing to bet the common factor here is age/health. But I would also assume that message wouldn’t be pushed because that wouldn’t fit the fear narrative being pushed. I had a random thought the other day. Why is it that when someone else gets COVID, like say a football player, we just know/assume they are out a week and then back the following week? Why is there no panic when we hear “AJ Klein gets put on the COVID list?” If COVID really is that bad, why are we assuming he’ll be back next week? Are any of us really thinking he might die? No. We know he’s gonna be fine. Now think about that. When someone else gets COVID (especially a public figure), we don’t worry and just assume everything will be back to normal. To me, it’s like flying. When I fly, I feel like the plane is going to go down. I’m scared of it. But when someone else flies, I assume their trip will be ok and we’ll see them when they land. So when I fly, there’s a problem with the plane. When someone else flies, all is well. Now wouldn’t we just say that’s a me problem and not a plane problem? I’m paranoid when it comes to flying? So if someone just assumes/knows someone else who gets COVID will be ok but they fear for themselves, isn’t that the same? It’s a fear/paranoia problem regarding COVID? Well put. The lack of concern for people who announce that they have Covid is a great indication/measure of just how non-lethal the general public knows it has become. Now substitute 'cancer' in that sentence and see if you get the same apathetic response. So it makes it that much a head-scratcher when certain government officials keep screaming that the sky's falling. It obviously isn't falling and hasn't been for quite some time now...if it ever even was.
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