The Next Pandemic: SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19

[oldmanfan]

27 minutes ago, Bakin said:

WRONG

So wrong. 
insanely wrong. 
 

Please let us know your science background, please?

I have a doctorate in Anatomy and have done cell biological and clinical research for over 40 years, plus I teach physiology (including basic immunology) and sit on an FDA advisory panel. 

 

Viruses are not cells.  They are basically packages of DNA or RNA generally with a protein coat (capsid) that allows the virus to attach to the host cell.  The Covid-19 spike protein is an example of such.  Upon entry into the host cell the viral DNA uses the host cell’s protein synthetic apparatus to create more copies of the virus.  Eventually the cell dies, the now multiple copies of the virus go on to infect other cells and propagation continues.

 

Vaccines work by inducing the immune system to either make antibodies (humoral response) that block the viral receptors on host cells or induce T cell responses (cellular immunity) that recognize and kill the virus.  Either way, vaccines induce immune responses that decrease the ability of viruses to infect cells, and when that happens the virus is deprived of its ability to propagate.  This is basic virology and immunology.

 

Now, what is your background, and do you want to continue arguing?

Edited August 15, 2021 by oldmanfan

[OrangeBills]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

The virus may hang around, but by vaccinating as many as possible you deprive the virus of hosts to propagate and/or mutate.  

 

This is incorrect.  

 

It's not a blood-born virus that can be "killed off", never has been. 

 

It's a simple cold/flu virus that resides in the Epithelial layers of the Respiratory system, it will be here forever like every other such virus that still could be found embedded in any dead hospital victim ever if we only tested for them.

 

It is slightly more dangerous, slightly more contagious, slightly more transmissable, and comes after two down Flu seasons.

 

It's absurdity.

[FireChans]

22 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I have a doctorate in Anatomy and have done cell biological and clinical research for over 40 years, plus I teach physiology (including basic immunology) and sit on an FDA advisory panel. 

 

Viruses are not cells.  They are basically packages of DNA or RNA generally with a protein coat (capsid) that allows the virus to attach to the host cell.  The Covid-19 spike protein is an example of such.  Upon entry into the host cell the viral DNA uses the host cell’s protein synthetic apparatus to create more copies of the virus.  Eventually the cell dies, the now multiple copies of the virus go on to infect other cells and propagation continues.

 

Vaccines work by inducing the immune system to either make antibodies (humoral response) that block the viral receptors on host cells or induce T cell responses (cellular immunity) that recognize and kill the virus.  Either way, vaccines induce immune responses that decrease the ability of viruses to infect cells, and when that happens the virus is deprived of its ability to propagate.  This is basic virology and immunology.

 

Now, what is your background, and do you want to continue arguing?

Yes this is why every vaccine in human history induces 100% immunity. 
 

Man, I love the knowledge coming from our FDA advisory board crew.

[oldmanfan]

4 minutes ago, OrangeBills said:

 

This is incorrect.  

 

It's not a blood-born virus that can be "killed off", never has been. 

 

It's a simple cold/flu virus that resides in the Epithelial layers of the Respiratory system, it will be here forever like every other such virus that still could be found embedded in any dead hospital victim ever if we only tested for them.

 

It is slightly more dangerous, slightly more contagious, slightly more transmissable, and comes after two down Flu seasons.

 

It's absurdity.

You are absolutely wrong.  It resides in the respiratory epithelium in conducting airway epithelium where it propagates and eventually reached the airway exchange epithelium of the alveoli and surrounding capillaries where it wreaks havoc.  It is no different than other viruses; it enters felled, uses those cells to propagate, and if you can generate an immune response against it you defeat it.

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

Yes this is why every vaccine in human history induces 100% immunity. 
 

Man, I love the knowledge coming from our FDA advisory board crew.

It comes down to the ability of the immune system to generate a response, which in turn has a lot to do with the availability of the receptor proteins to the immune system and the ability of the virus to mutate and fool the immune system.  Some viruses such as the cold virus and HIV have been able to adapt such that we can’t generate an effective immune response.  Others such as polio and measles are essentially eradicated. 
 

You are a classic example of the ignorance on this board.  To you if it’s not 100% it must be zero.  That is not how science or virology works.

11 minutes ago, OrangeBills said:

 

This is incorrect.  

 

It's not a blood-born virus that can be "killed off", never has been. 

 

It's a simple cold/flu virus that resides in the Epithelial layers of the Respiratory system, it will be here forever like every other such virus that still could be found embedded in any dead hospital victim ever if we only tested for them.

 

It is slightly more dangerous, slightly more contagious, slightly more transmissable, and comes after two down Flu seasons.

 

It's absurdity.

Pathogenesis of COVID-19 from a cell biology perspective

Robert J. Mason

European Respiratory Journal 2020 55: 2000607; DOI:10.1183/13993003.00607-2020
 

Read and learn

[FireChans]

3 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

You are absolutely wrong.  It resides in the respiratory epithelium in conducting airway epithelium where it propagates and eventually reached the airway exchange epithelium of the alveoli and surrounding capillaries where it wreaks havoc.  It is no different than other viruses; it enters felled, uses those cells to propagate, and if you can generate an immune response against it you defeat it.

It comes down to the ability of the immune system to generate a response, which in turn has a lot to do with the availability of the receptor proteins to the immune system and the ability of the virus to mutate and fool the immune system.  Some viruses such as the cold virus and HIV have been able to adapt such that we can’t generate an effective immune response.  Others such as polio and measles are essentially eradicated. 
 

You are a classic example of the ignorance on this board.  To you if it’s not 100% it must be zero.  That is not how science or virology works.

Flu vaccines have been completely unable to eradicate the influenza virus in the way that other vaccines have. Furthermore, they have most certainly NOT been able to deprive the virus of hosts, with that whole 50-70% effective thing every season.

Your problem is that you probably just read your sons’ “Intro to Bio and other fun things too” textbook and you think you have it all figured out. Unfortunately, to actually understand virology, you have to go past learning what a capsid is and which ones are double or single stranded.

 

thanks for playing.

[Big Blitz]

 

[BillStime]

Just now, Big Blitz said:

 

Move

[oldmanfan]

3 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Flu vaccines have been completely unable to eradicate the influenza virus in the way that other vaccines have. Furthermore, they have most certainly NOT been able to deprive the virus of hosts, with that whole 50-70% effective thing every season.

Your problem is that you probably just read your sons’ “Intro to Bio and other fun things too” textbook and you think you have it all figured out. Unfortunately, to actually understand virology, you have to go past learning what a capsid is and which ones are double or single stranded.

 

thanks for playing.

As I said, viruses evolve to tricks the immune system.  Some are better at it than others.  And because it’s not a 100% effective response you think it means zero.

 

Forty years in research and I have to sit here and have some science wannabe try to tell me how viruses work.  

[FireChans]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

As I said, viruses evolve to tricks the immune system.  Some are better at it than others.  And because it’s not a 100% effective response you think it means zero.

 

Forty years in research and I have to sit here and have some science wannabe try to tell me how viruses work.  

I didn’t say it was zero. 
 

It’s obvious that COVID is quickly approaching a space where vaccine effectiveness will diminish. No not to zero. But with the delta variant, and now this lambda variant, and whatever variants come next, we may be approaching a situation where it’s impossible to eradicate. 
 

You said it yourself. We got nothing for HIV or rhinoviruses. Our flu vaccine effectiveness ain’t that great. It may not be the best time to pretend we are going to pin this thing down like polio (whose vaccine effectiveness was 99% in preventing infection btw).

 

But what do I know. I didn’t spend 40 years doing bench work lol

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

I didn’t say it was zero. 
 

It’s obvious that COVID is quickly approaching a space where vaccine effectiveness will diminish. No not to zero. But with the delta variant, and now this lambda variant, and whatever variants come next, we may be approaching a situation where it’s impossible to eradicate. 
 

You said it yourself. We got nothing for HIV or rhinoviruses. Our flu vaccine effectiveness ain’t that great. It may not be the best time to pretend we are going to pin this thing down like polio (whose vaccine effectiveness was 99% in preventing infection btw).

 

But what do I know. I didn’t spend 40 years doing bench work lol

We will have to see whether Covid can be eradicated.  The effectiveness of the vaccines, especially mRNA vaccines, in preventing illness is promising and because of the technology they can rapidly sequence the genome of any variants and adjust the mRNA to compensate.  I don’t think we will completely eradicate Covid, but we will markedly limit its spread as more get vaccinated and hosts are decreased.  And hopefully as with many viruses the more it mutates the less harmful it will be.

[Bakin]

11 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

I have a doctorate in Anatomy and have done cell biological and clinical research for over 40 years, plus I teach physiology (including basic immunology) and sit on an FDA advisory panel. 

 

Viruses are not cells.  They are basically packages of DNA or RNA generally with a protein coat (capsid) that allows the virus to attach to the host cell.  The Covid-19 spike protein is an example of such.  Upon entry into the host cell the viral DNA uses the host cell’s protein synthetic apparatus to create more copies of the virus.  Eventually the cell dies, the now multiple copies of the virus go on to infect other cells and propagation continues.

 

Vaccines work by inducing the immune system to either make antibodies (humoral response) that block the viral receptors on host cells or induce T cell responses (cellular immunity) that recognize and kill the virus.  Either way, vaccines induce immune responses that decrease the ability of viruses to infect cells, and when that happens the virus is deprived of its ability to propagate.  This is basic virology and immunology.

 

Now, what is your background, and do you want to continue arguing?

You’ve got me for sure.
Honors Biology - heavily focused on biotech and immunology. Lab work for several years after graduation. 

 

What you said, though, was wrong because these vaccines are not actually vaccines.
 

They aren’t stopping propagation which is evidenced by case spikes following immunization. The vaccines aren’t sterilizing and they confer no immunity.

 

They don’t stop or even slow transmission at any appreciable rate. Viral loads are similar in vaccinated as in unvaccinated. Vaccinated suppress symptoms and likely spread at much higher rates (like flu vax recipients - 600% higher viral load than non flu Vax recipients in one study). LEAKY Vaccines create the selection pressure and the breeding ground from virulent variants. 
 

These are not vaccines - they are therapeutics. 

 

The virus will be here forever - animal reservoirs, and this terrible failed experiment of vaccinating mid pandemic with a leaky, novel, experimental, dangerous therapeutic - the most dangerous ‘vaccine’ ever created. 
 

 

[oldmanfan]

25 minutes ago, Bakin said:

You’ve got me for sure.
Honors Biology - heavily focused on biotech and immunology. Lab work for several years after graduation. 

 

What you said, though, was wrong because these vaccines are not actually vaccines.
 

They aren’t stopping propagation which is evidenced by case spikes following immunization. The vaccines aren’t sterilizing and they confer no immunity.

 

They don’t stop or even slow transmission at any appreciable rate. Viral loads are similar in vaccinated as in unvaccinated. Vaccinated suppress symptoms and likely spread at much higher rates (like flu vax recipients - 600% higher viral load than non flu Vax recipients in one study). LEAKY Vaccines create the selection pressure and the breeding ground from virulent variants. 
 

These are not vaccines - they are therapeutics. 

 

The virus will be here forever - animal reservoirs, and this terrible failed experiment of vaccinating mid pandemic with a leaky, novel, experimental, dangerous therapeutic - the most dangerous ‘vaccine’ ever created. 
 

 

Vaccines by definition mount immune response which is exactly what they do.  The delta variant is more infectious and there are so-called breakthrough cases, but I believe there are studies showing vaccinated people are much less likely to transmit.

 

Covid works the same as other viruses, it infects and propagates.  As more get vaccinated the amount of hosts go down as do viral loads.  It will take time.  I doubt we will ever completely eradicate Covid but we can and will get to a point where it is controlled.  My guess is we’ll be getting yearly Covid immunizations like we get them for the flu.

[Sundancer]

3 hours ago, Bakin said:

You’ve got me for sure.
Honors Biology - heavily focused on biotech and immunology. Lab work for several years after graduation. 

 

What you said, though, was wrong because these vaccines are not actually vaccines.
 

They aren’t stopping propagation which is evidenced by case spikes following immunization. The vaccines aren’t sterilizing and they confer no immunity.

 

They don’t stop or even slow transmission at any appreciable rate. Viral loads are similar in vaccinated as in unvaccinated. Vaccinated suppress symptoms and likely spread at much higher rates (like flu vax recipients - 600% higher viral load than non flu Vax recipients in one study). LEAKY Vaccines create the selection pressure and the breeding ground from virulent variants. 
 

These are not vaccines - they are therapeutics. 

 

The virus will be here forever - animal reservoirs, and this terrible failed experiment of vaccinating mid pandemic with a leaky, novel, experimental, dangerous therapeutic - the most dangerous ‘vaccine’ ever created. 
 

 

 

Jesus your posts are terribly ill-informed. It would take a while to deconstruct all of the things that you've said that are wrong here. I will pass but advise people to talk to their doctor, who might be more informed, than you. 

 

In other news, this is good data. Thank you vaccines, or as Bakin may call them, "therapeutics." 

 

 

 

[dpberr]

22 hours ago, TSOL said:

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/children-hospitalized-with-covid-19-us-hits-record-number-2021-08-14/

 

And there you have it, just in time for school to start back up. 

 

I hold firm to my beliefs to just let people develop the antibodies naturally and get on with our lives, of course the chicken littles will crucify me for that belief. This being said, I have elementary school aged kids. 

 

Of interest, you'll start seeing pediatric physicians start to talk about the dangers of RSV instead of Covid as we enter the fall. It'll be the new Boogeyman for parents. 
 

Not lost on me...guess what new toy Pfizer has for kids...an RSV vaccine they'd like the FDA to grant EUA for use. 

[TSOL]

1 hour ago, dpberr said:

Of interest, you'll start seeing pediatric physicians start to talk about the dangers of RSV instead of Covid as we enter the fall. It'll be the new Boogeyman for parents. 
 

Not lost on me...guess what new toy Pfizer has for kids...an RSV vaccine they'd like the FDA to grant EUA for use. 

 

 

Natural antibodies are way better than anything the profiteers can cook up. 

 

[RiotAct]

Australia getting back to normal!!!

 

https://www.9news.com.au/national/coronavirus-melbourne-couple-finally-meet-newborn-son-eight-days-after-birth-covid-brisbane-quarantine-queensland-news/c8acdb8c-8e92-4b95-9bd8-9130bfa48e5b

[Ralonzo]

On 8/14/2021 at 10:27 PM, oldmanfan said:

mRNA vaccines

 

You can be mRNA or a vaccine. Pick one.

 

I'd probably get permabanned for asking a question about the Dion Dawkins presser, so I want to see if I can get some help here where - in theory - you're still able to ask pertinent fact-based questions:

 

a) Dion took the shots

b) Dion got hospitalized for 4 days for the thing the shots were supposed to prevent (purposely skipping this new "2 more weeks" thing - being a couple days short of that arbitrary milestone being the indicator for no efficacy is a different but equally laughable matter)

 

In what logical sequence is the takeaway that THIS is what convinced his family to take the shots? (or the TSW corollary: that you're worse than an axe-murdering child molester if you don't take the shots. And *^%& Cole Beasley)

 

[take shots] + [almost die] = [give me those shots!!!]  is probably not where I'd automatically go as a conclusion. it does gibe with some local anecdotal history of flu shots however.

 

Edited August 17, 2021 by Ralonzo

[Ralonzo]

On 8/15/2021 at 1:08 PM, Sundancer said:

 

Jesus your posts are terribly ill-informed. It would take a while to deconstruct all of the things that you've said that are wrong here. I will pass but advise people to talk to their doctor, who might be more informed, than you. 

 

In other news, this is good data. Thank you vaccines, or as Bakin may call them, "therapeutics." 

 

 

Who are you who are so wise in the ways of science?

 

Thank God for the jab being the cause of a virus attenuating toward becoming more infectious yet less lethal, which has never happened before the advent of this miracle of sciency scientific science.

[716er]

This thread is more embarrassing than the thousand page QANON one the mods deleted 

[Ralonzo]

On 8/15/2021 at 3:39 PM, dpberr said:

Of interest, you'll start seeing pediatric physicians start to talk about the dangers of RSV instead of Covid as we enter the fall. It'll be the new Boogeyman for parents. 
 

Not lost on me...guess what new toy Pfizer has for kids...an RSV vaccine they'd like the FDA to grant EUA for use. 

Hell with RSV shot, give me SRV shot