Sundancer Posted June 9, 2021 Posted June 9, 2021 4 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: If someone had the virus, survived and has developed an immunity to it, I'm not sure why it's an 'easy choice' to get vaccinated beyond running with the herd because the herd is running. If I was in that situation, I would think it's perfectly reasonable to skip being vaccinated, and probably the right choice medically speaking. This is something we are starting to see studies on, which is good news. And there have been some studies about antibody levels after a single shot in people who had covid now too. From the article I linked, "The findings suggest that only a single vaccine dose in individuals recovered from COVID-19 may be enough to induce a maximal immune response, based on both strong antibody and memory B cell responses. This is likely due to a primary immune response because of their natural infection." As I noted, the "adverse reactions" in that tweet are headaches and fever. Seems like a small price to pay to have increased immunity. 1
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted June 9, 2021 Posted June 9, 2021 6 minutes ago, Sundancer said: This is something we are starting to see studies on, which is good news. And there have been some studies about antibody levels after a single shot in people who had covid now too. From the article I linked, "The findings suggest that only a single vaccine dose in individuals recovered from COVID-19 may be enough to induce a maximal immune response, based on both strong antibody and memory B cell responses. This is likely due to a primary immune response because of their natural infection." As I noted, the "adverse reactions" in that tweet are headaches and fever. Seems like a small price to pay to have increased immunity. See there we go---you used the phrase "Seems like...", a variation of "Seems to me..." and I don't think you're putting words in my mouth. I am officially returning to my position about informed choice. I completely understand that you would take the easy route even with immunity and get vaccinated. You read, considered and made your choice in that scenario. #respeck. The person with immunity doesn't need to be vaccinated--at least based on the CC study, and if they chose not to based on the science in play, the only reason to get vaccinated is to acquiesce to the crowd regardless of whether a pro-Vaxxer feels the risks are low. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html The side effects my range from minor to, uh, death based on this website. Who wants any of this &^%$ if it's unnecessary--it actually represents too high a price to ask someone else to pay if they see no value in the vax and received zero benefit from complying. At a minimum, it's like going to Mighty Taco, orderings a Super Mighty, a Soft Mighty, chips/cheese and a large Loganberry, but being charged for three extra Garden Burritos because 'everybody else buys 'em, and they're healthier'.
Sundancer Posted June 9, 2021 Posted June 9, 2021 (edited) As you probably know death from vaccine is more rare than death from Covid and deaths (plural) from being a spreader of Covid. “Seeing no value in the vax” is not something any rational person can back up at this point. There may be less value to someone who had Covid though. But if people want to spread Covid, that’s their choice. Do what you want. Starting another thought, I’d like us to send most of our vaccines to countries with stressed healthcare systems and high deaths at this point, keeping doses on hand only for kids and a few extra for others. Any adult who wants one in the US has had their chance by now. Edited June 9, 2021 by Sundancer
reddogblitz Posted June 9, 2021 Posted June 9, 2021 (edited) I don't care if you get it or not. Whatever turns you on. In Seattle with 70% and 85% vaccinated over 65, 97% of new cases are people who were not vaccinated. Quote “For those of us in public health, it’s nothing short of amazing,” Dr. Jeff Duchin, the chief health officer for Seattle and King County, told me the other day. I had called Duchin to ask about a startling claim he made recently. At a weekly health briefing, he offhandedly remarked that of King County’s recent COVID-19 cases, 97% had occurred in unvaccinated people. It effectively meant the only people still catching coronavirus here in King County are people who haven’t gotten the shots. It also means the disease that just a few months ago threatened the entire nation is now almost exclusively circulating among a shrinking few. https://www.seattletimes.com The vaccine works. It may cause me to grow a third eye someday I suppose, but I'll take my chances. You do what's best for you. See you out there. Edited June 10, 2021 by reddogblitz 1
plenzmd1 Posted June 9, 2021 Posted June 9, 2021 6 hours ago, Sundancer said: Do you choose to be an ####### just because “Internet”? I don’t say anyone has to do anything. My own take is that a two day exhaustion to not be part of the problem of spreading Covid seems minimal. Here’s the study I mentioned. https://www.pennmedicine.org/news/news-releases/2021/april/penn-study-suggests-those-who-had-covid19-may-only-need-one-vaccine-dose No, I chose to challenge people who do not read the posted content. this study from Penn says one shot, Cleveland Clinic, in a much broader study in terms or participants, says has no benefit. I was vaxed as soon as was possible. Son who had Covid and is painting houses this summer did not want to miss work, told him not to get vaxed. I believe in science, and the science says he is protected.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted June 9, 2021 Posted June 9, 2021 Interesting data... covid was far more pervasive and less deadly than initially thought now that testing is caught up... https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-death-rate/
Sundancer Posted June 9, 2021 Posted June 9, 2021 39 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: No, I chose to challenge people who do not read the posted content. You chose to be a dick. Because Internet? 39 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: this study from Penn says one shot, Cleveland Clinic, in a much broader study in terms or participants, says has no benefit. The studies are quite different.
North Buffalo Posted June 9, 2021 Posted June 9, 2021 21 hours ago, Big Blitz said: Did they let everyone know before the de facto forced experimental vaccination? Be my anecdotal experience that this makes sense... That being said it was much easier than when I had covid. 11 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: “Choice” is key here. Then make the correct choice and get vaxxed and lets get back to normal... its a pandemic... if you spent any time as a first responder especially in a hospital over the last year you wouldnt think twice... seeing young people in ICU's now who made the wrong choice.
North Buffalo Posted June 9, 2021 Posted June 9, 2021 6 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: I'll try again. We can agree to disagree if you prefer, but when one says "it seems", another way to say it is "it seems to me". It's entirely possible when I say "it seems", that my interpretation of what you said is incorrect. Your first post in response to the Cleveland Clinic story included this: The vaccine works. Getting Covid works. Covid kills and is contagious. Maybe I’ll grow a grow a third eye but it seemed like an easy choice to get the vaccine and end this thing. If someone had the virus, survived and has developed an immunity to it, I'm not sure why it's an 'easy choice' to get vaccinated beyond running with the herd because the herd is running. If I was in that situation, I would think it's perfectly reasonable to skip being vaccinated, and probably the right choice medically speaking. Disclaimer: All of these words are mine and mine alone. No mouths were filled during the preparation of this response. The reason to get vaxed even after having covid is its not clear how long immunity will last and it boosts immunity especially if we all want to get back to large crowds... this is especially virulent and worse than the flu... if it gets into your lungs kiss your ass goodbye
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted June 10, 2021 Posted June 10, 2021 42 minutes ago, North Buffalo said: The reason to get vaxed even after having covid is its not clear how long immunity will last and it boosts immunity especially if we all want to get back to large crowds... this is especially virulent and worse than the flu... if it gets into your lungs kiss your ass goodbye We’re back to large crowds, in fact, we never didn’t have large crowds gathering in cities across the country all last year as people died in large numbers. Surely you know this. Tens of thousands of people from all walks of life coming together, huddling closely at times, animated in speech and physical contact, often returning home to spread the virus in some of communities at highest risk in the country. What was hard to understand we’re the crickets chirping or worse yet—politicians and civic leaders encouraging the behavior. How many lives lost there? On the other hand, If you’re only talking about the compliant folk wanting to gather, that’s happening as well and has been for some time. Surely you know this as well. As for your suggestion, if I had immunity after having COVID, I personally would be willing to listen to the “extra double immunity” angle, but more importantly “we’re not sure how long your immunity will last”. Not saying I’d Vax up, and I probably wouldn’t until more data came out, but I’d listen. I would also support someone else unwilling to listen to either argument and just push forward, knowing the risk, knowing the numbers and knowing the science that seems to contradict “just get the damn Vax” crowd. Based on the numbers, it’s exceptionally likely they would be absolutely fine and would pose no threat to others. But, it’s a nasty ripper of a bug to some people, we agree there. Informed choice is the key. Tolerance helps as well. 1 hour ago, North Buffalo said: Be my anecdotal experience that this makes sense... That being said it was much easier than when I had covid. Then make the correct choice and get vaxxed and lets get back to normal... its a pandemic... if you spent any time as a first responder especially in a hospital over the last year you wouldnt think twice... seeing young people in ICU's now who made the wrong choice. On this, I think you’re overstating, btw. I’m speak with folks in various fields including areas of which you speak. Some certainly echoed what you said, others not at all. There is not universal consensus among all health care workers and physicians that the Vax is the only answer.
TSOL Posted June 10, 2021 Posted June 10, 2021 I wonder what kills more people per year? Obesity or corona?
plenzmd1 Posted June 10, 2021 Posted June 10, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Sundancer said: You chose to be a dick. Because Internet? The studies are quite different. Again, I guess you can’t read. I challenged you because you did not read the content , but you do as you do and act like tough guy as you say cause “ internet” by the way tough guy, my name is on every post I make on the internet, I don’t hide behind avatars or nicknames. my name is Paul Lenz, as you can see. I stand behind everything I post on the internet. Visit my Twitter at , you guessed it, plenzmd1, see my pretty face , where I reside etc. Doubt you will do the same internet tough guy. Edited June 10, 2021 by plenzmd1
plenzmd1 Posted June 10, 2021 Posted June 10, 2021 1 hour ago, North Buffalo said: Be my anecdotal experience that this makes sense... That being said it was much easier than when I had covid. Then make the correct choice and get vaxxed and lets get back to normal... its a pandemic... if you spent any time as a first responder especially in a hospital over the last year you wouldnt think twice... seeing young people in ICU's now who made the wrong choice. Hmm, seems some first responders may disagree. Shocking https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/06/08/houston-hospital-workers-suspended-vaccine/%3FoutputType%3Damp
Sundancer Posted June 10, 2021 Posted June 10, 2021 16 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: Again, I guess you can’t read. I challenged you because you did not read the content , but you do as you do and act like tough guy as you say cause “ internet” Doubling down on the dick part. Good work. I read them fully and the studies are different. Both can be right and may well be. 16 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: by the way tough guy, my name is on every post I make on the internet, I don’t hide behind avatars or nicknames. my name is Paul Lenz, as you can see. I stand behind everything I post on the internet. Visit my Twitter at , you guessed it, plenzmd1, see my pretty face , where I reside etc. Doubt you will do the same internet tough guy. What a great place you make this Mr Lenz.
plenzmd1 Posted June 10, 2021 Posted June 10, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Sundancer said: Doubling down on the dick part. Good work. I read them fully and the studies are different. Both can be right and may well be. What a great place you make this Mr Lenz. damn, some of you people on here make it to easy. I point out again you suggested only one course of action and people who did not follow that course of action were not quite bright… which 100% contradicted the Cleveland Clinic study with some 40k plus participants. you then allege I only challenge cause “ the internet” I refute your claim, say it is not cause “ the internet” , But due to science. And I put my name on every post. You double down on your “ casue the internet” claim, and still lack the stones to claim your post. Man up dude, claim your posts. Here and everywhere. It’s how a certain generation of us grew up, not afraid to speak and defend our positions. Edited June 10, 2021 by plenzmd1 1
GaryPinC Posted June 10, 2021 Posted June 10, 2021 52 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: Hmm, seems some first responders may disagree. Shocking https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/06/08/houston-hospital-workers-suspended-vaccine/%3FoutputType%3Damp 178 haven't gotten it. Not sure if any of those are actually first responders as the article doesn't say. You do understand "first responders" refers to emergency situations not simply hospital healthcare workers? Meanwhile, 24,947 of the healthcare workers in that hospital system are fully vaccinated. I'd say you're undermining your own argument far more than supporting it.
plenzmd1 Posted June 10, 2021 Posted June 10, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, GaryPinC said: 178 haven't gotten it. Not sure if any of those are actually first responders as the article doesn't say. You do understand "first responders" refers to emergency situations not simply hospital healthcare workers? Meanwhile, 24,947 of the healthcare workers in that hospital system are fully vaccinated. I'd say you're undermining your own argument far more than supporting it. As I said, I am not anti vax, I was first in line to be jabbed , been fully vaxed since first week in April. But to suggest that anyone who does not get the jab is a flake, or that ALL people in a given subset.. be they healthcare workers , or males, or females , or liberals, or African Americans have one view on the vaccine is short sighted and leads to distrust across the board. BTW, I guess this sentence escaped your attention. Quote he policy drew attacks from conservative media and prompted legal threats, including a lawsuit from more than 100 of the system’s staffers, led by a nurse who worked in the coronavirus unit and insisted that vaccines needed further study. Edited June 10, 2021 by plenzmd1
Doc Brown Posted June 10, 2021 Posted June 10, 2021 8 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Interesting data... covid was far more pervasive and less deadly than initially thought now that testing is caught up... https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-death-rate/ If you go back in this thread there were studies that showed the death rate was likely 0.2 to 0.4% of those infected so that's not particularly surprising. If you took the .2% and half the US population got infected with Covid then there would be approximately 630,000 US deaths. I always wondered about excess deaths to access the severity of the virus considering we basically shut down our economy to combat it. Results released in April showed the US death rate increased in 2020 increased for the first time since 2017 with an increase of 15.9% from 2019. Suicide actually went down 5.6% which was surprising to me considering people didn't get their usual social fix. Here's a better explanation of the preliminary data on deaths in 2020. During January–December 2020, the estimated 2020 age-adjusted death rate increased for the first time since 2017, with an increase of 15.9% compared with 2019, from 715.2 to 828.7 deaths per 100,000 population. COVID-19 was the underlying or a contributing cause of 377,883 deaths (91.5 deaths per 100,000). COVID-19 death rates were highest among males, older adults, and AI/AN and Hispanic persons. The highest numbers of overall deaths and COVID-19 deaths occurred during April and December. COVID-19 was the third leading underlying cause of death in 2020, replacing suicide as one of the top 10 leading causes of death (6). 1
Doc Brown Posted June 10, 2021 Posted June 10, 2021 7 hours ago, plenzmd1 said: Hmm, seems some first responders may disagree. Shocking https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/06/08/houston-hospital-workers-suspended-vaccine/%3FoutputType%3Damp 178 hospital employees out of 25,000? LOL. Enjoy that suspension without pay.
Sundancer Posted June 10, 2021 Posted June 10, 2021 (edited) 9 hours ago, plenzmd1 said: damn, some of you people on here make it to easy. I point out again you suggested only one course of action and people who did not follow that course of action were not quite bright… which 100% contradicted the Cleveland Clinic study with some 40k plus participants. you then allege I only challenge cause “ the internet” I refute your claim, say it is not cause “ the internet” , But due to science. And I put my name on every post. You double down on your “ casue the internet” claim, and still lack the stones to claim your post. Man up dude, claim your posts. Here and everywhere. It’s how a certain generation of us grew up, not afraid to speak and defend our positions. Do you want to have a dialogue or keep posturing? A “certain generation” of people has opted to posture on the Internet. It’s young and old but the act is a bore to me. Not to most so if you want to be that way, you have many dance partners. If you want to talk about the studies, let’s do that. The Cleveland study is welcome news indeed. It’s excellent that our immune response to Covid is long lasting and robust. And the Penn study is also interesting in that a single shot to those who had Covid boosts antibody levels to as high as the two-shot level. And finally the third study in the original tweet was about the minor reactions to getting a shot if you previously had Covid (similar to reactions to getting the second shot). All of those studies are compatible with one another and the third is the least new news of them all and should, I posit, merit the least consideration on whether to get vaccinated. If you’ve had Covid and don’t want to get vaccinated, OK, your choice. Seems like a single shot boost would help the cause though. A doc in the WSJ yesterday actually wrote this exact thing. Just read it this morning but it’s on point. He references both the Cleveland and Penn studies by the way. We should invite him into this thread. https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-power-of-natural-immunity-11623171303?mod=mhp Edited June 10, 2021 by Sundancer
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