The Next Pandemic: SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19

[Tiberius]

16 hours ago, shoshin said:

Trump’s maskless rallies and consequences thereof. 
 

 

 

The president has to meet people. The president has to travel. The president does not have to have parties and giant rallies with minimal protections in place. 
 

I wonder if Bailey got the Regeneron cocktail that Trump got for himself, Rudy, and Christie.  

This is a really terrifying story. Yikes! 

[SoCal Deek]

2 hours ago, Tiberius said:

This is a really terrifying story. Yikes! 

Terrifying? Really? Or just really terrifying? 

[shoshin]

4 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Terrifying? Really? Or just really terrifying? 

 

Do you think we should minimize the virus and encourage big events? 

 

My friend Lehnard won't answer simple questions like this: How about you? 

[JaCrispy]

20 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

Ivermechtin?  Never heard of it.  Just get me all the novel drugs no questions asked.  

 

Don't ask questions.  

 

 

Great video...the more info the better...👍

[Big Blitz]

37 minutes ago, shoshin said:

 

Do you think we should minimize the virus and encourage big events? 

 

My friend Lehnard won't answer simple questions like this: How about you? 

 

 

Schools should be fully open yes.   

 

It's essential.

Edited December 15, 2020 by Big Blitz

[shoshin]

17 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

Schools should be fully open yes.   

 

 

Here was the question: Do you think we should minimize the virus and encourage big events? 

 

 

[Big Blitz]

2 hours ago, shoshin said:

 

Here was the question: Do you think we should minimize the virus and encourage big events? 

 

 

 

 

Up to the locality yes. 

 

If you're under 40 why wouldn't you minimize it.

 

If you have a BMI less than 20 (we need to mandate bans on French fries) you have nothing to worry about. 

 

 

Edited December 16, 2020 by Big Blitz

[shoshin]

57 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

Up to the locality yes. 

 

If you're under 40 why wouldn't you minimize it.

 

If you have a BMI less than 20 (we need to mandate bans on French fries) you have nothing to worry about. 

 

 

Trump wasn’t holding U40 events, but keep playing dumb. 

[SoCal Deek]

11 hours ago, shoshin said:

Trump wasn’t holding U40 events, but keep playing dumb. 

California (primarily Los Angeles county) is experiencing a ‘winter’ surge in cases. Trump didn’t come here and didn’t hold any rallies here. If a state with a population of almost FORTY MILLION people isn’t a big enough laboratory to blow your theory out of the water I don’t know what it will take. Political rallies didn’t cause this surge...no matter how much you want to blame everything on the President. 

Edited December 16, 2020 by SoCal Deek

[Scraps]

29 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

California (primarily Los Angeles county) is experiencing a ‘winter’ surge in cases. Trump didn’t come here and didn’t hold any rallies here. If a state with a population of almost FORTY MILLION people isn’t a big enough laboratory to blow your theory out of the water I don’t know what it will take. Political rallies didn’t cause this surge...no matter how much you want to blame everything on the President. 

 

From what I've read, social gatherings amongst family and friends, in part caused by Covid fatigue, is the main driving factor behind the current surge.  There isn't a single cause, but multiple causes.  I heard one mayor saying in his city the driving factor in his city was big box stores and they were working with the stores to limit capacity.  Certainly, large numbers of maskless people close together for hours, as was the case for Trump rallies, could be a source of spread for the virus.

[SoCal Deek]

14 minutes ago, Scraps said:

 

From what I've read, social gatherings amongst family and friends, in part caused by Covid fatigue, is the main driving factor behind the current surge.  There isn't a single cause, but multiple causes.  I heard one mayor saying in his city the driving factor in his city was big box stores and they were working with the stores to limit capacity.  Certainly, large numbers of maskless people close together for hours, as was the case for Trump rallies, could be a source of spread for the virus.

Since it’s widely accepted that the virus transmits from person to person it goes without saying that people gathered in close proximity would be the primary cause of a surge. Especially indoor gatherings. But, citing political rallies is just absurd. California is a heavily Democrat state (especially LA County) and Trump rallies simply didn’t happen here. Big box stores are an interesting theory but they’ve been open throughout the pandemic here. Grocery stores never closed and you can’t go in ANY of them without a mask. Everyone, I mean absolutely everyone, wears a mask here. 

[Scraps]

3 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Since it’s widely accepted that the virus transmits from person to person it goes without saying that people gathered in close proximity would be the primary cause of a surge. Especially indoor gatherings. But, citing political rallies is just absurd. California is a heavily Democrat state (especially LA County) and Trump rallies simply didn’t happen here. Big box stores are an interesting theory but they’ve been open throughout the pandemic here. Grocery stores never closed and you can’t go in ANY of them without a mask. Everyone, I mean absolutely everyone, wears a mask here. 

 

Why would it be absurd to cite political rallies?  Surely you can't believe that you couldn't get the virus at a political rally.  Are you so conceited to believe that since Trump didn't have a rally in California that people couldn't have transmitted the virus and his many rallies in Florida, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, Oklahoma etc?

 

I don't know how things have or haven't changed in California.  I know around here, indoor dining was not allowed, big box stores and grocery stores had capacity limits and lines in front of them, salons and gyms were closed.  Now all that is allowed, with some capacity limits on dining indoors and gyms.  I've also noticed an increase in social gatherings in homes and half masking in stores.  I'm not surprised that the virus is surging.

[SoCal Deek]

Just now, Scraps said:

 

Why would it be absurd to cite political rallies?  Surely you can't believe that you couldn't get the virus at a political rally.  Are you so conceited to believe that since Trump didn't have a rally in California that people couldn't have transmitted the virus and his many rallies in Florida, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, Oklahoma etc?

 

I don't know how things have or haven't changed in California.  I know around here, indoor dining was not allowed, big box stores and grocery stores had capacity limits and lines in front of them, salons and gyms were closed.  Now all that is allowed, with some capacity limits on dining indoors and gyms.  I've also noticed an increase in social gatherings in homes and half masking in stores.  I'm not surprised that the virus is surging.

If this is really science then you have to start peeling away the obvious variables in order to solve the equation. (You remember that from junior high.) If there weren’t large political rallies in LA County, and there weren’t, then that clearly isn’t the nexus to the rise in cases. Citing them is done just to score some childish political point. I know conditions are different all over the country so I’m just giving observations from way out here in california ...which is a VERY large sample size! We don’t have indoor dining, and haven’t, and we’ve not seen any significant change in the number of people wearing masks in public. In fact, it’s absolutely shocking to see anyone without one. Things are different out here.

[oldmanfan]

9 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

If this is really science then you have to start peeling away the obvious variables in order to solve the equation. (You remember that from junior high.) If there weren’t large political rallies in LA County, and there weren’t, then that clearly isn’t the nexus to the rise in cases. Citing them is done just to score some childish political point. I know conditions are different all over the country so I’m just giving observations from way out here in california ...which is a VERY large sample size! We don’t have indoor dining, and haven’t, and we’ve not seen any significant change in the number of people wearing masks in public. In fact, it’s absolutely shocking to see anyone without one. Things are different out here.

I suggest you quit thinking in either/or ways.  Trump’s rallies caused outbreaks where he had rallies - Tulsa or the White House for examples.  California is likely due to Covid fatigue and improper in home meetings without masks.  Your desire to defend Trump to the death blinds you to reality.

[Tiberius]

Quote

 

ATLANTA — Kyle McGowan, a former chief of staff at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and his deputy, Amanda Campbell, were installed in 2018 as two of the youngest political appointees in the history of the world’s premier public health agency, young Republicans returning to their native Georgia to dream jobs.

But what they witnessed during the coronavirus pandemic this year in the C.D.C.’s leadership suite on the 12-floor headquarters here shook them: Washington’s dismissal of science, the White House’s slow suffocation of the agency’s voice, the meddling in its messages and the siphoning of its budget.

 

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In a series of interviews, the pair has decided to go public with their disillusionment: what went wrong, and what they believe needs to be done as the agency girds for what could be a yearslong project of rebuilding its credibility externally while easing ill feelings and self-doubt internally.

“Everyone wants to describe the day that the light switch flipped and the C.D.C. was sidelined. It didn’t happen that way,” Mr. McGowan said. “It was more of like a hand grasping something, and it slowly closes, closes, closes, closes until you realize that, middle of the summer, it has a complete grasp on everything at the C.D.C.”

Last week, the editor in chief of the C.D.C.’s flagship weekly disease outbreak reports — once considered untouchable — told House Democrats investigating political interference in the agency’s work that she was ordered to destroy an email showing Trump appointees attempting to meddle with their publication.

The same day, the outlines of the C.D.C.’s future took more shape when President-elect Joseph R. Biden Jr. announced a slate of health nominees, including Dr. Rochelle Walensky, the chief of infectious diseases at Massachusetts General Hospital, as the agency’s new director, a move generally greeted with enthusiasm by public health experts.

“We are ready to combat this virus with science and facts,” she wrote on Twitter.

 

https://dnyuz.com/2020/12/16/like-a-hand-grasping-trump-appointees-describe-the-crushing-of-the-c-d-c/. 300,000 dead later 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

14 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

Up to the locality yes. 

 

If you're under 40 why wouldn't you minimize it.

 

If you have a BMI less than 20 (we need to mandate bans on French fries) you have nothing to worry about. 

You take that back, you sick rat bastard!

 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

If this is really science then you have to start peeling away the obvious variables in order to solve the equation. (You remember that from junior high.) If there weren’t large political rallies in LA County, and there weren’t, then that clearly isn’t the nexus to the rise in cases. Citing them is done just to score some childish political point. I know conditions are different all over the country so I’m just giving observations from way out here in california ...which is a VERY large sample size! We don’t have indoor dining, and haven’t, and we’ve not seen any significant change in the number of people wearing masks in public. In fact, it’s absolutely shocking to see anyone without one. Things are different out here.

One issue that some folks here refuse to engage in is the hyperfixation on 'political rallies' v large scale protests and mass gatherings in support of political causes.   In spite of my disagreements with @oldmanfan, I think he's a good dude and a genuine rock star contributor here.  I read what he says, I assume he's a legit science PhDude.  Still, when we discussed these gatherings, his fall back is 'data'.  I get that, I really do, but it defies any logic at all that large scale gatherings that violate every recommendation to prevents the spread would not contribute to the spread of the virus on a massive level.  

 

• People comingling and not adhering to social distancing recommendations;
• Generally speaking, these are events predicated on emotional responses to injustice and social issues, by definition people are animated and engaged;
• Folks from all walks of life come together in large numbers, from cool zones, hot zones and everywhere inbetween;
• People do not spontaneously appear at these events, they all come from somewhere, and all come bring the shared commonalities of life--they enagage with others. 

 

Yet--silence, or better yet..."it's hard to say without the data about those specific events'.  

 

If we take that to the extreme, there has not been one study done that correlates the activity at my specific local church with super spreader events.   Not one.  No data exists, thus, it's impossible to say what might happen if I attend midnight mass in a week or two.  Same with my local hotspot and watering hole--not one data set from that locale.

 

It's one of the great mysteries of the pandemic.  To be completely honest, I wonder if the reason there was very little pushback on those sorts of mass gatherings, why Dr. Faucci was not railing against these massive super-spreader events was to encourage transmission of the virus.  

 

 

[oldmanfan]

17 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

One issue that some folks here refuse to engage in is the hyperfixation on 'political rallies' v large scale protests and mass gatherings in support of political causes.   In spite of my disagreements with @oldmanfan, I think he's a good dude and a genuine rock star contributor here.  I read what he says, I assume he's a legit science PhDude.  Still, when we discussed these gatherings, his fall back is 'data'.  I get that, I really do, but it defies any logic at all that large scale gatherings that violate every recommendation to prevents the spread would not contribute to the spread of the virus on a massive level.  

 

• People comingling and not adhering to social distancing recommendations;
• Generally speaking, these are events predicated on emotional responses to injustice and social issues, by definition people are animated and engaged;
• Folks from all walks of life come together in large numbers, from cool zones, hot zones and everywhere inbetween;
• People do not spontaneously appear at these events, they all come from somewhere, and all come bring the shared commonalities of life--they enagage with others. 

 

Yet--silence, or better yet..."it's hard to say without the data about those specific events'.  

 

If we take that to the extreme, there has not been one study done that correlates the activity at my specific local church with super spreader events.   Not one.  No data exists, thus, it's impossible to say what might happen if I attend midnight mass in a week or two.  Same with my local hotspot and watering hole--not one data set from that locale.

 

It's one of the great mysteries of the pandemic.  To be completely honest, I wonder if the reason there was very little pushback on those sorts of mass gatherings, why Dr. Faucci was not railing against these massive super-spreader events was to encourage transmission of the virus.  

 

 

To the contrary I am sure the protests contributed, although I’d like to see here and after data in this cities to confirms. The issue I have with our SoCal friend is that he insists on trying to defend Trump by doing the “well, what about X or Y” defense.  It does not matter what others did, it matters what he did .  And encouraging rallies without masks especially in the White House was ridiculous

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

To the contrary I am sure the protests contributed, although I’d like to see here and after data in this cities to confirms. The issue I have with our SoCal friend is that he insists on trying to defend Trump by doing the “well, what about X or Y” defense.  It does not matter what others did, it matters what he did .  And encouraging rallies without masks especially in the White House was ridiculous

 

Based on what we have been told, it's not that the protests 'contributed', it's that they would have served as giant incubators of the disease--a rolling, roiling boiling mass of COVID.  Again, I understand your desire for data based on your background, but I'm a simple humble businessman wondering where the %$#@ Tony Faucci was on this issue.  The way I see it, this issue is as much a failure of science and media complicity as anything else. 

 

https://abcnews.go.com/US/dr-fauci-voices-concerns-coronavirus-spreading-amid-nationwide/story?id=71171103

 

Here's the guy and the write up from ABC news.  Just offering my opinion, I read this and think "What kind of bull#### is this?".  The way I see it:

 

• We're all going to die if we don't stay home;
• If we can't stay home, we're all going to die if we don't wear masks, social distance, and stay out of church;
• Yet, massive gatherings of tens of thousands present from across the fruited plains:
  • "When you get congregations like we saw with the demonstrations," he continued, "that's taking a risk."
• What the heck is this?  I take a risk standing in line at the Bills home opener.  Where the %$#^ is this:  "Listen, people will become infected, and people will die from events like this, it's inevitable.  STAY THE %$## AWAY!".;
• In this article, the reporter seems to want to bend over backwards to minimize the risk.  Why?  Political gain;

 

Anyways, my point is simple--if you want skeptics to take you seriously, be bold and be serious.  He was serious, but tepid and impotent. 

 

As for Trump, I understand your perspective and certainly he shares blame for messaging.  However, had he been screaming from the top of his lungs for a lockdown, and then I witnessed the lack of any serious response to massive protests, I'd have  same concerns about bullshyt that I have today.  You're a data guy, I'm an observer of human behavior.  The messaging we're getting is all over the page, and while Trump was vocal about opening the economy, others were sounding alarms about what I might do while encouraging and supporting behavior that went against the grain. 

 

 

 

 

[Big Blitz]

2 hours ago, Tiberius said:

https://dnyuz.com/2020/12/16/like-a-hand-grasping-trump-appointees-describe-the-crushing-of-the-c-d-c/. 300,000 dead later 

 

Question for the CDC:

 

"What intel on the virus were you given from China and the WHO from Dec 2019 thru January 2020?"

 

And second question...

 

"Why didn't Governors heed your warnings and shut these down?":

 

CDC warns George Floyd protests may be 'seeding event' for more coronavirus outbreaks

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/04/watch-live-cdc-official-testifies-in-house-hearing-on-us-coronavirus-response.html

 

So follow up question for the media.  In light of these warnings, why were you good with 10s of thousands of protesters in cities all across the country through June?

Suddenly, Public Health Officials Say Social Justice Matters More Than Social Distance

For months, health experts told Americans to stay home. Now, many are encouraging the public to join mass protests.

 

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/06/04/public-health-protests-301534

 

Also, were these always crisis actors?

 

 

Yea sorry.  The CDC is right there with NBC in trustworthiness.  Start telling the truth not "your truths" then we can start taking you seriously again...

Edited December 16, 2020 by Big Blitz