Doc Brown Posted December 6, 2020 Posted December 6, 2020 3 hours ago, oldmanfan said: That is crap. Insisting that people followed the mitigating strategies, especially masking, would have saved many. We were told not to wear masks by the experts (including Fauci) in early March. A legitimate criticism of Trump is once it was recommended he should've expressed the importance of it and wore it every time he was in public.
Big Blitz Posted December 6, 2020 Posted December 6, 2020 Nothing to see here.... "...The largest global study of lockdowns compared with deaths as published in The Lancet found no association between coercive stringencies and deaths per million. To test further might seem superfluous but, for whatever reason, governments all over the world, including in the US, still are under the impression that they can affect viral transmissions through a range of “nonpharmaceutical interventions” (NPIs) like mandatory masks, forced human separation, stay-at-home orders, bans of gatherings, business and school closures, and extreme travel restrictions. Nothing like this has been tried on this scale in the whole of human history, so one might suppose that policy makers have some basis for their confidence that these measures accomplish something. Is anyone going to take responsibility for the devastation caused by worthless lockdowns that will end up killing far more people then the virus and setback a generation of 10s of millions of kids perhaps permanently? Its disgusting that Fauci refuses to do this. He is a pathetic leader. Career bureaucrat that thinks he's a Hollywood celebrity now. Look at this clown and the strict adherence to mask wearing....
Big Blitz Posted December 6, 2020 Posted December 6, 2020 World can start dreaming of COVID pandemic's end: UN health chief .... .. World Health Organization Director-General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus warned in a virtual address to the high-level meeting that a vaccine "will not address the vulnerabilities that lie at its root" -- poverty, hunger, inequality and climate change, which he said must be tackled once the pandemic ends. "We cannot and we must not go back to the same exploitative patterns of production and consumption, the same disregard for the planet that sustains all life, the same cycle of panic and meddling and the same divisive politics that fueled this pandemic," he said. https://thehill.com/policy/international/528889-who-chief-says-world-can-begin-to-dream-about-the-end-of-the-pandemic .. Um.......what? Yea this was totally about the virus everybody.
oldmanfan Posted December 6, 2020 Posted December 6, 2020 13 minutes ago, Doc Brown said: We were told not to wear masks by the experts (including Fauci) in early March. A legitimate criticism of Trump is once it was recommended he should've expressed the importance of it and wore it every time he was in public. This has been gone over time and time again. In March Fauci said that to be sure that masks would get to front line workers taking care of patients. 17 minutes ago, Big Blitz said: Then so did the WHO and every leader on the planet. If you think he was the only leader that had that info you're kidding yourself. And we don't know what the full context of what that supposed quote was. And telling the public initially we have an airborne virus worthy of shutting down the planet would have done much worse damage then you having a hard time finding toilet paper. Only partisan pieces of trash continue to heap blame on Trump over this. Was already here in December. And January. And if it was the airborne disaster you believed it was in January then why even bother with just China travel? Its global and they knew it right? So how exactly does this do anything? Especially since China and WHO were telling us "we got this nothing to see here." Lol. Thats exactly what they did and they all from Newsome to Cuomo praised his leadership. He did. On March 11th at 9pm. I felt the exact same way I did when I saw the 2nd plane hit the tower on 9/11 when he was done speaking. Not because I thought the world was ending. But that the number of possibilities that were on the table from this is a political coup, to this was a deliberate bio attack from China were all on the table, to yes this could be a serious virus. Then I saw the data. By March 25th I was no longer concerned about the virus just the hacks that were about to politicize it. And we were right. "Look at all these cases!!" Trump's fault. He did, they have repeatedly said he did, and they did hold daily pressers. Those stopped when they realized this wasn't a global killer or the Democrats said "thanks Tony, we'll take it from here." Not over an airborne virus whos origins he probably knows the actual truth about but will never be able to say. And bc its a f...ing virus. Blame the WHO......have they admitted it was THEIR FAULT yet??? Uh we did. Now no one wants to go back to work until there is a vaccine but oh yeah still pay us anyway. Unless you have cancer or severe hypertension over 65 you're the worst of humanity and an embarrassment to this generation. The only thing he didn't do was wear a mask. So what? Who was allowed anywhere without one? Who cares that a bunch of people like me know this is b.s. that isn't doing a thing to slow it down. Our "attitudes" about it mean absolutely nothing. What matters is you can't go anywhere without it. I wear them everywhere I go and we all have been for a solid 5 months. So where have we found outbreaks because people weren't wearing them? Nowhere. 1. I don’t give a damn what other leaders did. I care what ours did. And he lied when he knew about the severity. I am so sick and tired of this weak argument that you should excuse what he did because others did so. 2. China should be held to account. What did the orange baboon do initially? Praised their leader for how forthcoming he was, to try and save his trade deal. 3. He did not immediately enact the DPA, and as a result hospitals were out of supplies. And he disbanded the pandemic task force. And yes Obama should have made sure things were stocked as well. 4. It’s only one case. Then: It’s only 15 cases. Then: It will magically disappear. And so on. He lied. 5. He consistently disagreed with his advisors, most notably on masks. 6. For the American President to say he had no responsibility is perhaps the most disgusting thing ever said by any holder of the office. To say it was cowardly is an understatement. It was a complete abdication of the office. 6. The very minute they knew quarantining was needed the leaders from both parties should have been brought to the White House and a deal brokered to make sure small business was protected not big ones and Jared’s cronies. 7. The day the CDC and the advisory panel recommended masks, that very day, he should have been on TV with a national address wearing one, and telling every citizen it is their patriotic duty to do so. He should have pressured governors like his crony DeSantis to do the same 8. Lead!!!!!! All the above are leadership functions. And he failed spectacularly. And lap dogs like you just worship at his feet. Did you give money to his fund to fight the outcome of the election, because you know that goes into his pockets to pay his debts. We elected a con man, we got what we feared having a con man try to lead through a national crisis that has claimed over 250k lives and counting. And you lap dogs still fall for his crap. 1
shoshin Posted December 6, 2020 Posted December 6, 2020 Oldmanfan summed it up perfectly. Stop whining and lead. We have never had such a whiny B word as president. Be a man ffs.
oldmanfan Posted December 6, 2020 Posted December 6, 2020 18 minutes ago, Big Blitz said: Nothing to see here.... "...The largest global study of lockdowns compared with deaths as published in The Lancet found no association between coercive stringencies and deaths per million. To test further might seem superfluous but, for whatever reason, governments all over the world, including in the US, still are under the impression that they can affect viral transmissions through a range of “nonpharmaceutical interventions” (NPIs) like mandatory masks, forced human separation, stay-at-home orders, bans of gatherings, business and school closures, and extreme travel restrictions. Nothing like this has been tried on this scale in the whole of human history, so one might suppose that policy makers have some basis for their confidence that these measures accomplish something. Is anyone going to take responsibility for the devastation caused by worthless lockdowns that will end up killing far more people then the virus and setback a generation of 10s of millions of kids perhaps permanently? Its disgusting that Fauci refuses to do this. He is a pathetic leader. Career bureaucrat that thinks he's a Hollywood celebrity now. Look at this clown and the strict adherence to mask wearing.... From the article you quoted: Interpretation In this exploratory analysis, low levels of national preparedness, scale of testing and population characteristics were associated with increased national case load and overall mortality. Learn to read. And then go to the CDC and see the review of 45 papers showing a beneficial effect of masks 1
oldmanfan Posted December 6, 2020 Posted December 6, 2020 9 minutes ago, shoshin said: Oldmanfan summed it up perfectly. Stop whining and lead. We have never had such a whiny B word as president. Be a man ffs. Can you imagine these scenarios: Washington As the role model for the president if the new country and having to set the example: I take no responsibility Tyler after the first Presidential death: I take no responsibility Lincoln during the Civil War: I take no responsibility Teddy Roosevelt when trusts were destroying the country: I take no responsibility Wilson having to decide to send troops during WWI: I take no responsibility Franklin Roosevelt during the Depression and WWII: I take no responsibility Truman about the bomb and the Marshall Plan: I take no responsibility Eisenhower through Reagan during the Cold War: I take no responsibility Johnson and racial conflict: I take no responsibility Bush during the Iraq War: I take no responsibility Bush 2 and the reaction to 9/11: I take no responsibility Obama andvthe economic crisis when he entered office: I take no responsibility You can add others I’m sure. Could you imagine before 2016 having a President that would ever say to a national crisis: It’s not my responsibility? 1 1
Big Blitz Posted December 6, 2020 Posted December 6, 2020 26 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: From the article you quoted: Interpretation In this exploratory analysis, low levels of national preparedness, scale of testing and population characteristics were associated with increased national case load and overall mortality. Learn to read. And then go to the CDC and see the review of 45 papers showing a beneficial effect of masks Here is the evidence those studies use to show masks limit spread. In a nutshell. So States have all implemented mask wearing. But evil conservatives in red counties and localities opt out of them. The good well behaved blue localities enforce the face diapers no one knows how to wear. *Now here is a scary chart showing case spikes in red America and here in blue America cases are flat* Proof!!!! Told you!!! Masks work!!! Wrong. Its just all wrong. What these idiots fail to mention are about oh......150 other variables to that data. Let me keep this simple. See life and nature are complex but we can make the complex simple here. Once we start thinking about the type of people in these parts of the country. The blue localities are doing more than just wearing masks. They stay home more. They telework. They are most likely terrified of the virus and haven't seen their friends in months. Their kids probably haven't seen their friends in months and they probably rarely go see grandma. Grandma is probably scared to and stays home. Essentially blue America is terrified; it is we will do whatever it takes to never get sick America. The red localities are filled with people that don't give a *bleep* about the virus anymore bc we understand math and data. We still wear them to get into every place of business that cannot opt out of a State order. But we hang out with our friends and go to restaurants and allow our kids to see their friends. And we definitely see grandma. Because grandma doesn't give *bleep* about the virus bc she knows her time on this earth is almost up anyway she wants to live as she wants. We don't live in fear of a virus with a 0.0002% chance of killing someone under the age of 40. And grandma will take her chances. But we all wear masks when we go out. We have to. There are very few places anywhere in this country where you don't have to wear one. But somehow we can just look at the charts like a bunch of sheep and morons and say "yep totally bc they aren't in masks." All the data shows mandates are doing nothing. Maybe even making it worse bc you know, we have 100 million plus people touching everything everyone else touches then we touch our mask, face, etc as we go about our lives because hiding (pretty much the only thing that works and many in Blue America are doing that) for 18 plus months (or more bc vaccines were never a given and who said they will 100% work and have you read about what it might do to fertility check that out Bill Gates is going to get his population control) is out of the question. If you stay at home, create a bubble, you won't get it. That isn't possible nor an acceptable course of action. And its definitely not the Federal Government's job to enforce mitigation for a pandemic - unfortunately we have a constitution. If you don't like what your state is doing, move to California or lock yourself up. 1
oldmanfan Posted December 6, 2020 Posted December 6, 2020 1 hour ago, Big Blitz said: Here is the evidence those studies use to show masks limit spread. In a nutshell. So States have all implemented mask wearing. But evil conservatives in red counties and localities opt out of them. The good well behaved blue localities enforce the face diapers no one knows how to wear. *Now here is a scary chart showing case spikes in red America and here in blue America cases are flat* Proof!!!! Told you!!! Masks work!!! Wrong. Its just all wrong. What these idiots fail to mention are about oh......150 other variables to that data. Let me keep this simple. See life and nature are complex but we can make the complex simple here. Once we start thinking about the type of people in these parts of the country. The blue localities are doing more than just wearing masks. They stay home more. They telework. They are most likely terrified of the virus and haven't seen their friends in months. Their kids probably haven't seen their friends in months and they probably rarely go see grandma. Grandma is probably scared to and stays home. Essentially blue America is terrified; it is we will do whatever it takes to never get sick America. The red localities are filled with people that don't give a *bleep* about the virus anymore bc we understand math and data. We still wear them to get into every place of business that cannot opt out of a State order. But we hang out with our friends and go to restaurants and allow our kids to see their friends. And we definitely see grandma. Because grandma doesn't give *bleep* about the virus bc she knows her time on this earth is almost up anyway she wants to live as she wants. We don't live in fear of a virus with a 0.0002% chance of killing someone under the age of 40. And grandma will take her chances. But we all wear masks when we go out. We have to. There are very few places anywhere in this country where you don't have to wear one. But somehow we can just look at the charts like a bunch of sheep and morons and say "yep totally bc they aren't in masks." All the data shows mandates are doing nothing. Maybe even making it worse bc you know, we have 100 million plus people touching everything everyone else touches then we touch our mask, face, etc as we go about our lives because hiding (pretty much the only thing that works and many in Blue America are doing that) for 18 plus months (or more bc vaccines were never a given and who said they will 100% work and have you read about what it might do to fertility check that out Bill Gates is going to get his population control) is out of the question. If you stay at home, create a bubble, you won't get it. That isn't possible nor an acceptable course of action. And its definitely not the Federal Government's job to enforce mitigation for a pandemic - unfortunately we have a constitution. If you don't like what your state is doing, move to California or lock yourself up. Two things: 1. Not everyone is wearing masks. Period. Ask anyone who is out in public. For example, I stopped for gas on Ky a month ago. Started going into the store to get a drink, 12 people waiting together in the checkout line side by side, not one mask. I backed out and went in my way. 2. Observational studies show effectiveness of masks, and lab studies show that masks limit droplet and aerosol spread. Google Duke mask study and read it. Or the 45 studies in the CDC document. Oh wait, asking you to read again, aren’t I? Not your strong suit. 1
TBBills Posted December 6, 2020 Posted December 6, 2020 @Big Blitz Hey you think any of this is actually true go ahead and post it in https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/223756-covid-19-facts-and-information-only-topic/
shoshin Posted December 6, 2020 Posted December 6, 2020 9 hours ago, oldmanfan said: Can you imagine these scenarios: Washington As the role model for the president if the new country and having to set the example: I take no responsibility Tyler after the first Presidential death: I take no responsibility Lincoln during the Civil War: I take no responsibility Teddy Roosevelt when trusts were destroying the country: I take no responsibility Wilson having to decide to send troops during WWI: I take no responsibility Franklin Roosevelt during the Depression and WWII: I take no responsibility Truman about the bomb and the Marshall Plan: I take no responsibility Eisenhower through Reagan during the Cold War: I take no responsibility Johnson and racial conflict: I take no responsibility Bush during the Iraq War: I take no responsibility Bush 2 and the reaction to 9/11: I take no responsibility Obama andvthe economic crisis when he entered office: I take no responsibility You can add others I’m sure. Could you imagine before 2016 having a President that would ever say to a national crisis: It’s not my responsibility? He is so embarrassing at the moment that a lot of his own party is just ignoring him like he’s a tantruming child and not the potus. It’s a brutal moment for America. We are well beyond “he has the right to challenge the election.”
SoCal Deek Posted December 6, 2020 Posted December 6, 2020 8 hours ago, oldmanfan said: Two things: 1. Not everyone is wearing masks. Period. Ask anyone who is out in public. For example, I stopped for gas on Ky a month ago. Started going into the store to get a drink, 12 people waiting together in the checkout line side by side, not one mask. I backed out and went in my way. 2. Observational studies show effectiveness of masks, and lab studies show that masks limit droplet and aerosol spread. Google Duke mask study and read it. Or the 45 studies in the CDC document. Oh wait, asking you to read again, aren’t I? Not your strong suit. Everyone is wearing a mask in California a d has been for six months. Is 40 MILLION people a large enough case study for you? 1
oldmanfan Posted December 6, 2020 Posted December 6, 2020 4 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: Everyone is wearing a mask in California a d has been for six months. Is 40 MILLION people a large enough case study for you? Not everyone is California is wearing a mask, or if they are they are not wearing them consistently or correctly.. I know you live there, but open your eyes. I live in Indiana, and as stated above if I'm out (which I am frequently) there are people refusing to do so. The vast majority of observational studies indicate a difference in infection rates when comparing mask vs. no mask populations. The recent study from Kansas is a good one. Trends in County-Level COVID-19 Incidence in Counties With and Without a Mask Mandate — Kansas, June 1–August 23, 2020 Then you have a ton of lab studies demonstrating that masks will decrease aerosol and droplet transmission which are the main vectors for viral spread. Among the many studies showing this, I like the one from Duke in particular, primarily because it shows the benefit of certain types of masks and highlights which types of more "casual" masks such as the neck gaiters are not very helpful: Low-cost measurement of face mask efficacy for filtering expelled droplets during speech View ORCID ProfileEmma P. Fischer1, View ORCID ProfileMartin C. Fischer2,3,*, View ORCID ProfileDavid Grass2, View ORCID ProfileIsaac Henrion4, View ORCID ProfileWarren S. Warren2,3,5,6 and Eric Westman7 See all authors and affiliations Science Advances 02 Sep 2020: Vol. 6, no. 36, eabd3083 DOI: 10.1126/sciadv.abd3083 And of course here is the CDC summary document on the efficacy of masks with 45 peer reviewed references on the effectiveness of masks: Scientific Brief: Community Use of Cloth Masks to Control the Spread of SARS-CoV-2 Updated Nov. 20, 2020 Masks are not a cure, they are a preventative measure. By combining masks (when you cannot keep proper distancing especially), distancing, and hand washing we can have a huge effect on keeping the virus from finding a host, and without a host it dies out. But stubbornness, ignorance, and what can only be described as a callous disregard for the health of family, friends, and others around us have caused more than 250k fellow citizens to die, with many more having survived but with uncertain future health due to longer lasting effects related to the virus. And the numbers of each continue to grow. All while the current occupant of the White House has abdicated any responsibility (which is not surprising as he stated several months ago he has no responsibility), while the Secretary of State is hosting parties all through the holiday season indoors with crowds and no masks. This using the virus as a political prop is absolutely shameful; the virus does not care about politics.
TBBills Posted December 6, 2020 Posted December 6, 2020 @Big Blitz Whoops CDC just said to keep wearing a mask... Looks like your crusade has ended in utter failure. Maybe you should stick to stuff you know, like being wrong all the time
Tiberius Posted December 6, 2020 Posted December 6, 2020 Taylor Nichols is a Vituity emergency physician practicing outside Sacramento. He completed a fellowship in emergency medicine health policy and advocacy at UC Davis Health in June. He came in by ambulance short of breath. Already started on oxygen by the paramedics. Still, he was clearly laboring just to breathe. He looked sick. Uncomfortable. Scared. As we got him over to the gurney and wrestled his shirt off to switch to a hospital gown, there was one thing that we all noticed: the Nazi tattoos. The swastika stood out boldly on his chest. SS tattoos and other Nazi insignia ran down his arms. He was solidly built. Older. His methamphetamine use over the years had taken its usual toll, and his teeth were all but gone. “Don’t let me die, doc,” he said breathlessly as the respiratory therapist switched him over to our mask and CPAP machine. I reassured him that we were all going to work hard to take care of him and keep him alive. All of us being a team that included a Jewish physician, a Black nurse and an Asian respiratory therapist. We all saw. The symbols of hate on his body outwardly and proudly announced his views. We all knew what he thought of us. How he valued our lives. But our job was to value his. So here we were, working as a team to make sure we gave him the best possible chance to survive. All while wearing masks, gowns, face shields and gloves. This moment perfectly captured what we are going through as health-care workers as this pandemic accelerates. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/12/05/taylor-nichols-er-patient-nazi-tattoo/?arc404=true
shoshin Posted December 6, 2020 Posted December 6, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, SoCal Deek said: Everyone is wearing a mask in California a d has been for six months. Is 40 MILLION people a large enough case study for you? California has several of the biggest cities in the country and is 41st in cases per million. If you use CA as a case study, it's doing well. Here are the worst states in cases/million. All this is correlative. Masks likely help and can't hurt. Not sure why this is debatable. Edited December 6, 2020 by shoshin 1
Big Blitz Posted December 6, 2020 Posted December 6, 2020 4 hours ago, TBBills said: @Big Blitz Whoops CDC just said to keep wearing a mask... Looks like your crusade has ended in utter failure. Maybe you should stick to stuff you know, like being wrong all the time "Said to keep wearing a mask...." Hahahahahaha Just like they have been saying since May. Clearly working.
TBBills Posted December 6, 2020 Posted December 6, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Big Blitz said: "Said to keep wearing a mask...." Hahahahahaha Just like they have been saying since May. Clearly working. It has been... You even help prove it has been by the ***** you post, you don't even realize it. I think that is the funniest part of your crazied crusade. Edited December 6, 2020 by TBBills
Big Blitz Posted December 6, 2020 Posted December 6, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, TBBills said: It has been... You even help prove it has been by the ***** you post, you don't even realize it. I think that is the funniest part of your crazied crusade. No no no......you don't understand. See you posted "well the CDC said you should keep wearing them." Not "they work here is why." No, just wear them because.. As if that means anything. You really think they're going to tell us, "you know what, yea forget the masks." Nope. Too political and stupid now. And they are just as political as the WHO. Where is the science that says the masks prevent covid? There isn't any. None. Logic tells me that when im wearing my glasses and face diaper, and my glasses keep fogging up from my breathing, logic says this mask is worthless. Edited December 6, 2020 by Big Blitz
TBBills Posted December 6, 2020 Posted December 6, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Big Blitz said: No no no......you don't understand. See you posted "well the CDC said you should keep wearing them." Not "they work here is why." No, just wear them because.. As if that means anything. You really think they're going to tell us, "you know what, yea forget the masks." Nope. Too political and stupid now. And they are just as political as the WHO. Where is the science that says the masks prevent covid? There isn't any. None. Logic tells me that when im wearing my glasses and face diaper, and my glasses keep fogging up from my breathing, logic says this mask is worthless. You really believe that? You are dumber than I thought. https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent Edited December 6, 2020 by TBBills
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