spartacus Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 4 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Givread what SDS put up about what should be done with this forum. You are a perfect example of just wanting to exist in your own echo chamber. As a society we all have to coexist and come together to fight this thing. We can do that by all of us pitching in and doing the things the experts advise, and that the science and data support. why are you so convinced that it is imperative to hide from testing positive? most positives are not sick even if sick, 99.7% successfully recover there are multiple effective treatments available if you do get sick why wallow in the fear?
oldmanfan Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, spartacus said: why are you so convinced that it is imperative to hide from testing positive? most positives are not sick even if sick, 99.7% successfully recover there are multiple effective treatments available if you do get sick why wallow in the fear? Because it’s killed over 200k people and rising, and others who have not died will have long term effects. And there are not multiple proven effective treatments.
daz28 Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 13 minutes ago, spartacus said: why are you so convinced that it is imperative to hide from testing positive? most positives are not sick even if sick, 99.7% successfully recover there are multiple effective treatments available if you do get sick why wallow in the fear? Dude, why do some of you have to so horribly exaggerate everything. Wallowing in fear. PANICKING. Maybe, just maybe there's a reason to be somewhat alarmed that it's the 3rd leading cause of death in America, and 1 in 7 people who die will die of Coronavirus. You keep plugging away with your 99.9999% chance nonsense. It's like taking the deep dive into sports statistics to prove a team doesn't suck when they're 2-12. 17 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Because it’s killed over 200k people and rising, and others who have not died will have long term effects. And there are not multiple proven effective treatments. Oh ya, I forgot about the long term effects that we don't even understand yet, and the fact it has a very real possibility to mutate into a much, much deadlier strain 1
shoshin Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 Remdesivir got some bad news (as did HCQ though it was just a side note). https://www.livescience.com/remdesivir-survival-covid19-coronavirus.html About 4,100 of those patients served as a comparison group and received no drug treatments, while the rest received one of four drugs, or a combination of several medications. These drugs included remdesivir, hydroxychloroquine, an antiviral called lopinavir and an immune-stimulating molecule called Interferon-β1a. About 650 patients received the interferon and lopinavir, together. Ultimately, the study results suggest that no single drug or drug combination significantly reduced deaths among patients, as compared with the no-drug group. In addition, the drugs did not reduce the chances that treated patients would be placed on a ventilator, nor did the drugs reduce patients' time in the hospital. "The unpromising overall findings from the regimens tested suffice to refute early hopes" that the medications would reduce mortality among COVID-19 patients, the study authors wrote. 1
SoTier Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 5 hours ago, oldmanfan said: We should all do a better job with our general health. That would be a great thing to work on for the future, but in the present we have a viral pandemic that requires all of to work cooperatively to eradicate. Exactly. The coronavirus doesn't only infect the old or the unhealthy, and not every chronic health problem is the result of "self destructive tendencies". It will infect whoever is within range of it when it lands.
Gary M Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/pdfs/mm6936a5-H.pdf?fbclid=IwAR3yYuN1c-WBix9s1ozy4NMYVEpDgBzwkVArmJNEWqgNI-K8hrOviMf56Gg Reported use of cloth face covering or mask 14 days before illness onset (missing = 2) Never 6 (3.9) 5 (3.1) 0.86 Rarely 6 (3.9) 6 (3.8) Sometimes 11 (7.2) 7 (4.4) Often 22 (14.4) 23 (14.5) Always 108 (70.6) 118 (74.2)
oldmanfan Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Gary M said: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/pdfs/mm6936a5-H.pdf?fbclid=IwAR3yYuN1c-WBix9s1ozy4NMYVEpDgBzwkVArmJNEWqgNI-K8hrOviMf56Gg Reported use of cloth face covering or mask 14 days before illness onset (missing = 2) Never 6 (3.9) 5 (3.1) 0.86 Rarely 6 (3.9) 6 (3.8) Sometimes 11 (7.2) 7 (4.4) Often 22 (14.4) 23 (14.5) Always 108 (70.6) 118 (74.2) This study was what went on in different indoor spots with a limited number of participants. Google studies on masks and Covid and you will find many peer reviewed studies showing how masks help prevent droplet spread. Edited October 16, 2020 by oldmanfan
Gary M Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 1 minute ago, oldmanfan said: This study was what went on in restaurants with a limited number of participants. Google studies on masks and Covid and you will find many peer reviewed studies showing how masks help prevent droplet spread. If thats the case why did Fauci at first say this? '
spartacus Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 40 minutes ago, shoshin said: Remdesivir got some bad news (as did HCQ though it was just a side note). https://www.livescience.com/remdesivir-survival-covid19-coronavirus.html About 4,100 of those patients served as a comparison group and received no drug treatments, while the rest received one of four drugs, or a combination of several medications. These drugs included remdesivir, hydroxychloroquine, an antiviral called lopinavir and an immune-stimulating molecule called Interferon-β1a. About 650 patients received the interferon and lopinavir, together. Ultimately, the study results suggest that no single drug or drug combination significantly reduced deaths among patients, as compared with the no-drug group. In addition, the drugs did not reduce the chances that treated patients would be placed on a ventilator, nor did the drugs reduce patients' time in the hospital. "The unpromising overall findings from the regimens tested suffice to refute early hopes" that the medications would reduce mortality among COVID-19 patients, the study authors wrote. more bullcrap "studies" designed to produce fear porn -that nothing works on the vrius It is accepted "science" that early treatment is critical yet this "study" ignored early treatment as a key variable from the link- "The trial participants were treated at 405 different hospitals around the world, each with their own treatment protocols, so factors beyond remdesivir may have impacted patient survival, he noted. In addition, remdesivir may still offer benefit to patients if given early in the course of their illness, but that wasn't specifically addressed by the new study, Dr. Maricar Malinis, an infectious diseases physician at Yale University, told the Times. when is "science" just marketing pushing an agenda
ALF Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 12 minutes ago, Gary M said: If thats the case why did Fauci at first say this? ' Fact check: Outdated video of Fauci saying “there’s no reason to be walking around with a mask” Fauci’s remarks were made on March 8, 2020 and do not represent his current stance on face coverings nor the updated guidance issued by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). As Fauci told the Washington Post here , at the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic, masks were not recommended for the general public, as authorities were trying to prevent a mask shortage for health workers and the extent of asymptomatic spread was unknown. https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-fauci-outdated-video-masks/fact-checkoutdated-video-of-fauci-saying-theres-no-reason-to-be-walking-around-with-a-mask-idUSKBN26T2TR 1
spartacus Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 1 minute ago, ALF said: Fact check: Outdated video of Fauci saying “there’s no reason to be walking around with a mask” Fauci’s remarks were made on March 8, 2020 and do not represent his current stance on face coverings nor the updated guidance issued by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). As Fauci told the Washington Post here , at the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic, masks were not recommended for the general public, as authorities were trying to prevent a mask shortage for health workers and the extent of asymptomatic spread was unknown. https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-fauci-outdated-video-masks/fact-checkoutdated-video-of-fauci-saying-theres-no-reason-to-be-walking-around-with-a-mask-idUSKBN26T2TR yet Fauci's March comments mirror accepted "science" for all years prior to March 2020.
SoTier Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 1 minute ago, ALF said: Fact check: Outdated video of Fauci saying “there’s no reason to be walking around with a mask” Fauci’s remarks were made on March 8, 2020 and do not represent his current stance on face coverings nor the updated guidance issued by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). As Fauci told the Washington Post here , at the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic, masks were not recommended for the general public, as authorities were trying to prevent a mask shortage for health workers and the extent of asymptomatic spread was unknown. https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-fauci-outdated-video-masks/fact-checkoutdated-video-of-fauci-saying-theres-no-reason-to-be-walking-around-with-a-mask-idUSKBN26T2TR In case you didn't notice, the various supporters of Covid Donnie's anti-public health campaign continually pretend that the world has stood still since March.
oldmanfan Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 12 minutes ago, Gary M said: If thats the case why did Fauci at first say this? ' This has been covered a number of times. This interview was, I believe, early in the pandemic. At that time the recommendation was for the public to not wear masks because they wanted to ensure an adequate supply of masks for health care facilities as they were hit with patients. As the science and study of the virus and it’s mode of transmission became clearer, the usefulness of masks in helping combat spread became clear. This us how science works and as a scientist for 40 years it really surprises me how many people don’t or won’t understand that process. Take the study you quoted. The main conclusion from the data is that you increase odds of infection in restaurants or bars/coffee shops. Where one removes one’s mask.
Gary M Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, ALF said: Fact check: Outdated video of Fauci saying “there’s no reason to be walking around with a mask” Fauci’s remarks were made on March 8, 2020 and do not represent his current stance on face coverings nor the updated guidance issued by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). As Fauci told the Washington Post here , at the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic, masks were not recommended for the general public, as authorities were trying to prevent a mask shortage for health workers and the extent of asymptomatic spread was unknown. https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-fauci-outdated-video-masks/fact-checkoutdated-video-of-fauci-saying-theres-no-reason-to-be-walking-around-with-a-mask-idUSKBN26T2TR I am not questioning whether he changed his mind, but why? Data shows that people are still getting covid while wearing masks. Don't give me the it protects you from me BS, people are wearing the masks, and yet people are still getting it. (virus is going to virus) https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202008/26/WS5f45c0bfa310675eafc558cb.html Cases still climbing. I thought only evil GOPers got Kung Flu https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/15/politics/kamala-harris-campaign-travel-coronavirus/index.html Edited October 16, 2020 by Gary M
oldmanfan Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 22 minutes ago, Gary M said: I am not questioning whether he changed his mind, but why? Data shows that people are still getting covid while wearing masks. Don't give me the it protects you from me BS, people are wearing the masks, and yet people are still getting it. (virus is going to virus) https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202008/26/WS5f45c0bfa310675eafc558cb.html Cases still climbing. I thought only evil GOPers got Kung Flu https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/15/politics/kamala-harris-campaign-travel-coronavirus/index.html You are confusing mitigation and absolute prevention. Fauci and all other responsible scientists changed their positions on masks as the understanding of the science and spread of the virus developed and it became clear masks helped prevent droplet transmission. Likely reasons why they have not completely gotten rid of the virus is that not everyone wears them, some do not wear them correctly, and in crowded places with inadequate ventilation the virus spreads more easily. 1
Gary M Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: You are confusing mitigation and absolute prevention. Fauci and all other responsible scientists changed their positions on masks as the understanding of the science and spread of the virus developed and it became clear masks helped prevent droplet transmission. Likely reasons why they have not completely gotten rid of the virus is that not everyone wears them, some do not wear them correctly, and in crowded places with inadequate ventilation the virus spreads more easily. No I'm not, my point is and always has been that you can't stop the virus, the attempts to slow it down were wrong, and telling the public that wearing masks (while not teaching them proper handling) was giving them false hope they wouldn't get it. Our county facebook page gives daily covid updates, and the Karens flip out everyday about the numbers. They believe that if you wear a mask you won't get it or give it, all the while they mishandle their mask. Without a vaccine or herd immunity people are going to get covid, the more people that get it and survive, the lower the mortality rate goes. Edited October 16, 2020 by Gary M
ALF Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 37 minutes ago, Gary M said: I am not questioning whether he changed his mind, but why? Data shows that people are still getting covid while wearing masks. Don't give me the it protects you from me BS, people are wearing the masks, and yet people are still getting it. (virus is going to virus) https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202008/26/WS5f45c0bfa310675eafc558cb.html Why do doctors and nurses wear masks while performing surgery ? I'm not trying to be a wiseguy
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 42 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: This has been covered a number of times. This interview was, I believe, early in the pandemic. At that time the recommendation was for the public to not wear masks because they wanted to ensure an adequate supply of masks for health care facilities as they were hit with patients. As the science and study of the virus and it’s mode of transmission became clearer, the usefulness of masks in helping combat spread became clear. This us how science works and as a scientist for 40 years it really surprises me how many people don’t or won’t understand that process. Take the study you quoted. The main conclusion from the data is that you increase odds of infection in restaurants or bars/coffee shops. Where one removes one’s mask. ...I remember signs in Home Depot saying, "sorry out of stock....masks have been reserved for first responders and health care personnel (paraphrased)"...........hindsight we "got caught" short with a multitude of stock piles not replenished.........then again, this phenomenon is nothing like we've faced since perhaps 1917/1918..... 1
oldmanfan Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 Just now, Gary M said: No I'm not, my point is and always has been that you can't stop the virus, the attempts to slow it down were wrong, and telling the public that wearing masks (while not teaching them proper handling) was giving them false hope they wouldn't get it. Our county facebook page gives daily covid updates, and the Karens flip out everyday about the numbers. They believe that if you wear a mask you won't get it or give it, all the while they mishandle their mask. Without a vaccine or herd immunity people are going to get covid, the more people that get it and survive, the lower the mortality rate goes. Your last paragraph is somewhat correct. A vaccine will be the best way to get herd immunity within a given population. Your other premise, inferring that we should just let the virus spread, is both immoral and not effective. Estimates are that at least 60% of the population would have to get Covid for the herd immunity you suggest. Right now it’s I think about 10% and you have over 200k fatalities. In such a scenario you would have millions die. Do you believe that is acceptable public health care policy, that we should allow millions to die? Here is what would likely happen if we just let the virus spread. Hospitals would get over run, health care workers would dwindle, public panic would ensue as death rates go way up, people would shut themselves away in their homes, and we would have a true collapse of the economy and social structure. Viruses don’t hang out and propagate on their own. They require a host and the host’s cells to replicate. Until effective vaccines are available, our best bet is to limit the access of the virus to new hosts, by using mitigating strategies. They aren’t perfect and you are correct that people need to be more cognizant of proper mask usage. But that does not mean they aren’t effective. We know they are. 2 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...I remember signs in Home Depot saying, "sorry out of stock....masks have been reserved for first responders and health care personnel (paraphrased)"...........hindsight we "got caught" short with a multitude of stock piles not replenished.........then again, this phenomenon is nothing like we've faced since perhaps 1917/1918..... We all have to pull together 1
SoCal Deek Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 6 minutes ago, ALF said: Why do doctors and nurses wear masks while performing surgery ? I'm not trying to be a wiseguy Why do bank robbers? 😉
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