oldmanfan Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, Reality Check said: That's one name, Fauci. Who else? Your faith in bureaucracies composed of billions of dollars in profit motives for its "experts" might be misplaced. You want me to look up names of scientists at the CDC who work on this? academic medical centers? Pharmaceutical companies? really? As for profit motives, pharmaceutical companies have them. But I am on an FDA panel and I can tell you I have to submit volumes of material every year to show that I do not have competing outside interests. And government employees like Dr. Fauci, if they develop a treatment or such as a government employee, means that rights to that are the government's.
spartacus Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 12 minutes ago, SDS said: if you are speaking about COVID-19 it is because research and analysis takes time. If you’re talking about taking zinc in general, zinc lozenges have been promoted for many years. not by the CDC, the WHO or the media - during this pandemic why is that?
Reality Check Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, daz28 said: I think it would be easier to list all the doctors who believe mitigation measure don't work. Plus they're easy to find, because they all live in Alabama, and they think Jesus is gonna solve it. On that note, I will leave you to your own ideology while I continue to not comply with this nonsense. I do wish the best though. I want us all to rock and roll again and get back to business with each other, and of course, have fun together again. Peace. 1
oldmanfan Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 1 minute ago, Reality Check said: Your opinions are not based on the science. They are based on the opinions of scientists. A handful of scientists I might add who have a profit motive. You yourself haven't seem to attempted to quantify the situation independently for yourself. They are based on the data that are in peer reviewed journals. and government employees do not have a profit motive. I don't work in virology or infectious diseases so you are correct, I have not done independent studies. You seem to want to tear down the entire scientific community, a community that has has discovered cures for diseases since the times of Lister and Pasteur.
Reality Check Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 Just now, oldmanfan said: They are based on the data that are in peer reviewed journals. and government employees do not have a profit motive. I don't work in virology or infectious diseases so you are correct, I have not done independent studies. You seem to want to tear down the entire scientific community, a community that has has discovered cures for diseases since the times of Lister and Pasteur. I am not bound to the same ideology as you are in this context. "Science" is in a perpetual state of revolution, and scientists are quite often at odds with each other from theory to application. I will leave it at you do what you want to do, and I will not do what I haven't been convinced to do. Masks take away from my handsome face, so that is a nonstarter. Peace!
shoshin Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 (edited) 28 minutes ago, BeerLeagueHockey said: Yet the all cause mortality has not risen for 2020. Running at the same rate as years past. What is your source for that? Here's the CDC: And here's a JAMA article that concludes: Although total US death counts are remarkably consistent from year to year, US deaths increased by 20% during March-July 2020. COVID-19 was a documented cause of only 67% of these excess deaths. Some states had greater difficulty than others in containing community spread, causing protracted elevations in excess deaths that extended into the summer. US deaths attributed to some noninfectious causes increased during COVID-19 surges. Excess deaths attributed to causes other than COVID-19 could reflect deaths from unrecognized or undocumented infection with severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 or deaths among uninfected patients resulting from disruptions produced by the pandemic. Study limitations include the reliance on provisional data, inaccuracies in death certificates, and assumptions applied to the model. Edited October 16, 2020 by shoshin
spartacus Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 27 minutes ago, Reality Check said: From a national economic standpoint, how practical is what you are suggesting? How much damage economically, socially, and mentally is required to stop this? stop what ? a virus from which 99.7% successfully recover do healthy things and get treated early problem solved 1
daz28 Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 29 minutes ago, BeerLeagueHockey said: No, 200k have died (plus more that we can't quantify). My point is why aren't we running 2-300k higher then? Can you show me your data?
daz28 Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 32 minutes ago, Reality Check said: Your opinions are not based on the science. They are based on the opinions of scientists. A handful of scientists I might add who have a profit motive. You yourself haven't seem to attempted to quantify the situation independently for yourself. Can we look at this from a practical perspective, based on what we'd all call our own anectodal evidence. Would one be more likely to get the flu from someone standing right in front of us coughing and sneezing if they weren't wearing a mask? I mean it seems to be basic knowledge that when a person is hacking and coughing you have an aversion to that, especially when you feel the spittle and aerosol landing on your face. Also, you'd not want to touch what they touched, and you'd try to maintain a distance from them. Has this all just been some wives tale, or just something we know to be true. I mean in the end, I'd err on the side of caution that I may reduce the risk of causing someone else to die by wearing a mask, even if it's not comfortable. It seems to be just pure stubbornness 1
GaryPinC Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 On 10/14/2020 at 9:24 PM, spartacus said: stopping droplets is great except the virus travels as an aerosol - which is not covered by your charts above the mask strips the virus from the droplets and passes them to the world as an aeresol Of course it travels as an aerosol. Which is perfectly covered by the charts above. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerosol
Reality Check Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 1 hour ago, daz28 said: Can we look at this from a practical perspective, based on what we'd all call our own anectodal evidence. Would one be more likely to get the flu from someone standing right in front of us coughing and sneezing if they weren't wearing a mask? I mean it seems to be basic knowledge that when a person is hacking and coughing you have an aversion to that, especially when you feel the spittle and aerosol landing on your face. Also, you'd not want to touch what they touched, and you'd try to maintain a distance from them. Has this all just been some wives tale, or just something we know to be true. I mean in the end, I'd err on the side of caution that I may reduce the risk of causing someone else to die by wearing a mask, even if it's not comfortable. It seems to be just pure stubbornness I'm still not complying. I haven't had the flu for over 25 years. No flu shot. Been around many people with the flu over that time span every year. Call me stubborn as often as you like. Label me whatever you like if helps you. I'll pass on casting labels also. Try to have a little fun my friend. The situation is not as serious as advertised.
GaryPinC Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 (edited) On 10/14/2020 at 6:00 PM, fansince88 said: Serious question. Have you seen anyone cough in a store with the mask on? Ones I have seen both cough and sneeze AFTER they pull their mask off I've never seen anyone cough or sneeze pulling their mask off first. I've seen my share of folks at the store who leave their nose exposed and randomly cough/sneeze without pulling it up. But that's a minority here in Ohio. I have also seen people cough with masks on, many also cover their mask with hand/elbow just like I continue to do (habit!) Edited October 16, 2020 by GaryPinC
GaryPinC Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 2 hours ago, spartacus said: cool - you used big words However, According to the laws of physics (which have not been suspended during this pandemic), it is impossible for aerosol particles of .27 micron to be blocked by even N-95 masks with .5 micron holes. Every breathe taken through a mask frees whatever virus was attached to a droplet and turns it into a floating aerosol , freed to venture the world Aerosolization involves a wide range of droplet sizes, including the sizes you are thinking of. Go back to the pictures I provided you. Virus will be on all sizes of droplets, the larger the droplet the more virus. The majority of virus will be blocked and/or not go far. Sure, some of the smallest droplets less than 0.5 micron will pass through the mask but given the mask is at least thousands of times thicker than even the smallest droplets few will have an easy path through. The small amount that manage to pass fairly freely through to project out will be in stark contrast to the majority that were flat out blocked or had their velocity reduced to almost nothing on exit.
daz28 Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 19 minutes ago, Reality Check said: I'm still not complying. I haven't had the flu for over 25 years. No flu shot. Been around many people with the flu over that time span every year. Call me stubborn as often as you like. Label me whatever you like if helps you. I'll pass on casting labels also. Try to have a little fun my friend. The situation is not as serious as advertised. If you prefer the word reluctance, I'll use that instead. I like to fish, so I have a Covid safe hobby to keep me from Covid blues. I disagree with your assessment, but respect your right to your opinion. 1
SoCal Deek Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 2 hours ago, oldmanfan said: My opinions are based on the science. If there is anything worse than the deaths that have occurred from Covid and the economic impact, it is that the pandemic has shown us that we have a society that increasingly refuses to accept things like data and fact and science. That may be more dangerous than anything for the long term. We are free men. I express my freedom by doing what I can to help make sure my neighbor doesn't get this disease. What are you doing? Bull! If you're doing "what you can to help make sure your neighbors don't get this disease" then you would have long ago moved far away from any contact with any neighbors. It's all relative. It's like saying you're driving a Prius to save the planet while commuting 100 miles each day to get to work. Again....bull!
SectionC3 Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 3 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: Bull! If you're doing "what you can to help make sure your neighbors don't get this disease" then you would have long ago moved far away from any contact with any neighbors. It's all relative. It's like saying you're driving a Prius to save the planet while commuting 100 miles each day to get to work. Again....bull! What do you mean by “moved far away from any contact?” If you’re suggesting that this guy should have moved into the woods, it seems a bit absurd, does it not? Maybe he’s doing the best he “can” — his word — in a lousy situation and his circumstances don’t allow for an extreme measure such as perfect and complete isolation.
SoCal Deek Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 Just now, SectionC3 said: What do you mean by “moved far away from any contact?” If you’re suggesting that this guy should have moved into the woods, it seems a bit absurd, does it not? Maybe he’s doing the best he “can” — his word — in a lousy situation and his circumstances don’t allow for an extreme measure such as perfect and complete isolation. My brother and his wife haven't left their house since March. How about that? I think they're nutty....but THEY are doing everything they can.
SectionC3 Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: My brother and his wife haven't left their house since March. How about that? I think they're nutty....but THEY are doing everything they can. I think they’re nutty, too. But they “can” do that. My point was that what’s feasible for one might not be feasible for another. Edited October 16, 2020 by SectionC3
oldmanfan Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 (edited) 30 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: Bull! If you're doing "what you can to help make sure your neighbors don't get this disease" then you would have long ago moved far away from any contact with any neighbors. It's all relative. It's like saying you're driving a Prius to save the planet while commuting 100 miles each day to get to work. Again....bull! Go read what SDS put up about what should be done with this forum. You are a perfect example of just wanting to exist in your own echo chamber. As a society we all have to coexist and come together to fight this thing. We can do that by all of us pitching in and doing the things the experts advise, and that the science and data support. Edited October 16, 2020 by oldmanfan 1
oldmanfan Posted October 16, 2020 Posted October 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, BeerLeagueHockey said: It's the fight of our lives. We're all in this together. Just 2 more weeks. It’s going to be with us for quite a while unfortunately.
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