whatdrought Posted August 21, 2020 Posted August 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, westside2 said: Not sure what's the difference between the letting the car show go on and letting protests and riots happen. Just the secret agreement to preserve the capital city’s revenue builder. 1
Buffalo Bills Fan Posted August 21, 2020 Posted August 21, 2020 3 hours ago, Magox said: It's just common sense. Imagine how many people have died from not getting the care they needed because of the stringent social distancing measures. Right just reading online something new. HIV kills t cells. Wish had more data covid19 and those suffering from this. But anyways good info to pass along here. Those people don't have a defense to it. (virus and other things) 2
shoshin Posted August 21, 2020 Posted August 21, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Magox said: More on excess deaths indirectly due to COVID and stringent social distancing measures. Suicide edition due to economic factors And this from CDC And more regarding suicides And who is it that typically commits suicides at higher rates than any other age group? You guessed it - Younger folks The more we apply logic and facts the more we understand that younger people are disproportionately affected by a wide margin when it comes to excess deaths caused by stringent social distancing measures. Because he is an in-the-box thinker. I cited to and quoted the exact same CDC report that you quoted--to make the same point--but I did it several days ago...on this very site. Guess you're in the same box as me. Another mistake for you. Bad week bro: Can happen to anyone but it keeps happening to you because you have a strange obsession with me. People are even writing me about it privately--and not wacky liberals. It's kind of creepy but even more so because we agree on most of this as I've noted many times, not that you'd want to acknowledge it. Edited August 21, 2020 by shoshin 2
shoshin Posted August 21, 2020 Posted August 21, 2020 2 hours ago, GG said: Madrid was not leading in new cases until a few days ago, which were in Andalucia and Aragon. The troubling trend in Madrid has to be watched, as it's one of the few cases of a rebound in cases in a previously hard hit area. At some point you have to do your own interpretation of the data and not rely fully on what's being spoonfed. Case in point is the excess death debate. Why is it necessary to wait for CDC confirmation, when you can triangulate into the numbers from other data points? The leading causes of death for people under 45 are unintended injuries, suicides and homicides. Given the perverse incentive to attribute as many deaths as possible to Wuhan, you'd be seeing a hell of a lot more statistics about <45 yr old Wuhan deaths. But since you're not seeing that, and insurance companies are reporting far fewer driving deaths since the lockdowns began, would lead to a logical conclusion that the excess deaths are caused by the other factors that are common among the <45 crowd. I have posted about the suicide/mental health issue on OTW a lot in the last week. There may well be a higher number of deaths due to suicides now, or at some point in the future. When Magox cited that study that purported to show that excess deaths in U45 people was due to suicides, I was interested to see that. It was sadly a bad article and did not back its claim. If you look back through the thread, that's my criticism. It was a crappy paper that might be right, but not based on the data it presented. Regarding waiting for the CDC confirmation, I agree. But here's the problem: The paper in discussion looked at CDC-classified Covid deaths vs non-Covid classified deaths. If you're stuck in the CDC data, you have to rely on the CDC data, and your analysis carries the issues built into CDC data, namely, the slow pace that the CDC takes when classifying deaths. Failure to acknowledge that or build in estimates for how the non-classified deaths could change the conclusions further undermines the paper's credibility. Obliquely and rationally, younger people may be committing suicides at a higher rate. Still haven't seen the data though. I'd love to have that because I keep arguing that the effects of the shutdowns have a terrible effect on mental health--and will for years. 1
B-Man Posted August 21, 2020 Posted August 21, 2020 WHAT MYSTERY? Denver doctors may have found the answer to a pandemic mystery: What happened to all the heart attacks? “Stauffer’s team found that cardiac arrests at home in Denver more than doubled in the two weeks after the statewide stay-at-home order was issued compared with historical averages. Even compared with more recent data, the weekly average of out-of-hospital cardiac arrests jumped to 46 during those two weeks, versus 26 or 27 in the three months prior.” Seriously, what mystery? Plus: “Stauffer and his colleagues found that the number of people in Denver who died of cardiac arrests at home in the two weeks following the statewide stay-at-home order was greater than the total number of people who died of COVID-19 in the city during that time.” How many of them could have been saved had they made it to an ER? 1
GG Posted August 21, 2020 Posted August 21, 2020 Just now, B-Man said: WHAT MYSTERY? Denver doctors may have found the answer to a pandemic mystery: What happened to all the heart attacks? “Stauffer’s team found that cardiac arrests at home in Denver more than doubled in the two weeks after the statewide stay-at-home order was issued compared with historical averages. Even compared with more recent data, the weekly average of out-of-hospital cardiac arrests jumped to 46 during those two weeks, versus 26 or 27 in the three months prior.” Seriously, what mystery? Plus: “Stauffer and his colleagues found that the number of people in Denver who died of cardiac arrests at home in the two weeks following the statewide stay-at-home order was greater than the total number of people who died of COVID-19 in the city during that time.” How many of them could have been saved had they made it to an ER? Why is this a surprise, this is exactly what happened at NYC's peak.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted August 21, 2020 Posted August 21, 2020 2 hours ago, GG said: Why is this a surprise, this is exactly what happened at NYC's peak. ...there was financial incentive to distort and fraudulently report...the first Covid 19 Fed Relief package funded $2.5 billion to be disbursed through the Medicare system to hospitals, paying $39,000 per Covid case versus the normal $13,000 reimbursement.....so multiple NON-Covid deaths were tagged as Covid....heart attacks, vehicle accidents, those with pre-existing conditions who could not get regular treatments, albeit chemo, radiation, etc......look at NYS Big Fraudulent Fredo as a primary example.....nursing home deaths were reported as "only those who died on nursing home soil"....those shipped to nursing homes infected or who also infected existing residents, but eventually shipped to hospitals where they died DO NOT COUNT......care to convince me that the populous REALLY mattered versus creating a political finger pointing atmosphere?....don't even try.....
Tiberius Posted August 21, 2020 Posted August 21, 2020 Reading about Clarence Darrow now and the Scopes Monkey trial. Science vs religion, with KKK defender William Jennings Bryan the religious fanatic arguing for the suppression of science in schools. Can't help seeing the parallels to today.
3rdnlng Posted August 21, 2020 Posted August 21, 2020 1 hour ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...there was financial incentive to distort and fraudulently report...the first Covid 19 Fed Relief package funded $2.5 billion to be disbursed through the Medicare system to hospitals, paying $39,000 per Covid case versus the normal $13,000 reimbursement.....so multiple NON-Covid deaths were tagged as Covid....heart attacks, vehicle accidents, those with pre-existing conditions who could not get regular treatments, albeit chemo, radiation, etc......look at NYS Big Fraudulent Fredo as a primary example.....nursing home deaths were reported as "only those who died on nursing home soil"....those shipped to nursing homes infected or who also infected existing residents, but eventually shipped to hospitals where they died DO NOT COUNT......care to convince me that the populous REALLY mattered versus creating a political finger pointing atmosphere?....don't even try..... I believe the reimbursements were $13,000 for each Covid-19 patient but $39,000 for each Covid-19 patient put on a ventilator. What do you think Gloria Akalitus would do? Bonus points available for knowing this reference without Googling it. 1
IDBillzFan Posted August 21, 2020 Posted August 21, 2020 5 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: Bonus points available for knowing this reference without Googling it. Kamala Harris without makeup? 1
3rdnlng Posted August 21, 2020 Posted August 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, IDBillzFan said: Kamala Harris without makeup? No, Heels Up Harris with makeup.
keepthefaith Posted August 21, 2020 Posted August 21, 2020 1 minute ago, Magox said: I hope this turd doesn’t become president Keep saying that Joe. Won't play well with the majority of people. 1
Cinga Posted August 21, 2020 Posted August 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Tiberius said: KKK defender William Jennings Bryan the religious fanatic arguing for the suppression of science in schools Yeah, it was pretty crappy of the Democrats to do that huh? 1
Tiberius Posted August 21, 2020 Posted August 21, 2020 7 minutes ago, Cinga said: Yeah, it was pretty crappy of the Democrats to do that huh? Yup! Back when the Democrats catered to Conservatives. Times have changed
RochesterRob Posted August 21, 2020 Posted August 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Yup! Back when the Democrats catered to Conservatives. Times have changed They cater to rich people today and Bryan was so beloved by that party that he was their POTUS candidate a couple of times.
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