Buffalo_Gal Posted July 27, 2020 Posted July 27, 2020 Should be an interesting paper. I wonder if they studied all types of face coverings, and if they have useful or useless designations based on the type? IOW are some masks helpful? Do N-95s work against the virus? Are regular hospital masks helpful? Disposables? What about bandanas? What would have to be developed to make them useful (assuming nothing we have now helps)? Face-Mask Photo Op Adds to Bewilderment Over Non-Use in Denmark </snip> All these countries recommending face masks haven’t made their decisions based on new studies,” Bundgaard said in an interview in Copenhagen. He says there’s evidence to suggest that the only effective face covering might be a visor, because the virus can spread through all mucous membranes, including via the eyes. He worries a cloth covering that only protects the nose and mouth provides a “false sense of security.” </snip> Bundgaard’s study on masks is due to be published next month. In the meantime, he says he hopes they don’t become mandatory in Denmark. </snip> 1 2
BillsFanNC Posted July 27, 2020 Posted July 27, 2020 4 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said: Should be an interesting paper. I wonder if they studied all types of face coverings, and if they have useful or useless designations based on the type? IOW are some masks helpful? Do N-95s work against the virus? Are regular hospital masks helpful? Disposables? What about bandanas? What would have to be developed to make them useful (assuming nothing we have now helps)? Face-Mask Photo Op Adds to Bewilderment Over Non-Use in Denmark </snip> All these countries recommending face masks haven’t made their decisions based on new studies,” Bundgaard said in an interview in Copenhagen. He says there’s evidence to suggest that the only effective face covering might be a visor, because the virus can spread through all mucous membranes, including via the eyes. He worries a cloth covering that only protects the nose and mouth provides a “false sense of security.” </snip> Bundgaard’s study on masks is due to be published next month. In the meantime, he says he hopes they don’t become mandatory in Denmark. </snip> I hope this study includes an arm of real world mask usage, the way most people improperly use masks as they move about in public, to compare to both an unmasked and ideally worn mask group. 1
Magox Posted July 27, 2020 Posted July 27, 2020 8 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said: Should be an interesting paper. I wonder if they studied all types of face coverings, and if they have useful or useless designations based on the type? IOW are some masks helpful? Do N-95s work against the virus? Are regular hospital masks helpful? Disposables? What about bandanas? What would have to be developed to make them useful (assuming nothing we have now helps)? Face-Mask Photo Op Adds to Bewilderment Over Non-Use in Denmark </snip> All these countries recommending face masks haven’t made their decisions based on new studies,” Bundgaard said in an interview in Copenhagen. He says there’s evidence to suggest that the only effective face covering might be a visor, because the virus can spread through all mucous membranes, including via the eyes. He worries a cloth covering that only protects the nose and mouth provides a “false sense of security.” </snip> Bundgaard’s study on masks is due to be published next month. In the meantime, he says he hopes they don’t become mandatory in Denmark. </snip> Imagine that. Home of some of the top epidemiologists in the world are not believers in masks. Lest not forget that Fauci wasn't early on either and the way he described his stance against them in mocking terms of those that did "to make them feel better", was his true stance on the matter. No one says things in that sort of descriptive manner without truly believing what they were saying. It's not as if tranmission of droplets are any different with COVID than the standard flu lol. Droplets are droplets. There are so many variables with mask wearing, all in all, I wear them just out of respect for others if I know that I will be close to other people. But the data has shown us time and time again that mask usage in all the major hit cities has had very little effect in slowing down the virus. We can argue all day long about the efficacy of masks, it still won't change the fact that the data has shown that the cities with the highest mask compliance/mandates have had little effect on the overall numbers. Once a city has a somewhat high prevalency, the virus is going to do what a virus does. Spread and eventually burnout. 1
IDBillzFan Posted July 27, 2020 Posted July 27, 2020 12 minutes ago, Magox said: We can argue all day long about the efficacy of masks, it still won't change the fact that the data has shown that the cities with the highest mask compliance/mandates have had little effect on the overall numbers. ANTI-MASKER!!! 1
KD in CA Posted July 27, 2020 Posted July 27, 2020 Cases spiking in Japan, Hong Kong and Australia....places that until now were lauded for keeping a lid on the virus. Might be a paywall here, but this story is all over the web in various places. https://www.wsj.com/articles/coronavirus-is-back-with-a-vengeance-in-places-where-it-had-all-but-vanished-11595842202 1
RiotAct Posted July 27, 2020 Posted July 27, 2020 10 minutes ago, KD in CA said: Cases spiking in Japan, Hong Kong and Australia....places that until now were lauded for keeping a lid on the virus. Might be a paywall here, but this story is all over the web in various places. https://www.wsj.com/articles/coronavirus-is-back-with-a-vengeance-in-places-where-it-had-all-but-vanished-11595842202 sorry, but you’re going to have to find me a more reputable source than Wall Street Journal. Got any Buzzfeed or Daily Kos? 3
Magox Posted July 27, 2020 Posted July 27, 2020 18 minutes ago, KD in CA said: Cases spiking in Japan, Hong Kong and Australia....places that until now were lauded for keeping a lid on the virus. Might be a paywall here, but this story is all over the web in various places. https://www.wsj.com/articles/coronavirus-is-back-with-a-vengeance-in-places-where-it-had-all-but-vanished-11595842202 These countries may end up getting it "under control" because they are willing to absolutely shut it down draconian style. But the idea that masks is an effective tool to "control the spread" is not based off any real data, aside from studies in controlled environments. Which the real world is not operating within a controlled environment. 1
B-Man Posted July 27, 2020 Posted July 27, 2020 Head of CDC Admits Lockdown Killing Way More Americans Than COVID 1 1 1
GG Posted July 27, 2020 Posted July 27, 2020 33 minutes ago, KD in CA said: Cases spiking in Japan, Hong Kong and Australia....places that until now were lauded for keeping a lid on the virus. Might be a paywall here, but this story is all over the web in various places. https://www.wsj.com/articles/coronavirus-is-back-with-a-vengeance-in-places-where-it-had-all-but-vanished-11595842202 It's as if a virus wants to do viral things. The most important news from Australian outbreak is that the cases are growing in Victoria state Melbourne), which was largely spared in the first wave, which hit New South Wales (Sydney). There is a slight uptick in New South Wales cases, but nowhere near the April levels. If there was a true resurgence of COVID in Australia, Sydney would get hit as badly as Melbourne. But it's not ... That critical piece of information is missing from nearly all press accounts, and what leads many morons to simply parrot country wide data, without regard to the particulars of a given country's geography and where the "resurgences" are happening. That's why you have people in NY tristate still cowering in fear, despite overwhelming evidence that the virus isn't a huge threat in that region. 1 1
shoshin Posted July 27, 2020 Posted July 27, 2020 2 hours ago, meazza said: You’re blaming the feds but this is happening everywhere. Japan is having a resurgence and you won’t find a more obedient society anywhere. The virus is coming. The feds could do better. To think otherwise is rather naive but it's lead to us being the only country with people proudly anti-mask. Japan may get a massive uptick. Still pretty early. 2 hours ago, meazza said: Seems it will play itself out. That could happen if we all go hang out in stadiums for a month too. There clearly are many ways to deal with the virus. 1 minute ago, GG said: It's as if a virus wants to do viral things. The most important news from Australian outbreak is that the cases are growing in Victoria state Melbourne), which was largely spared in the first wave, which hit New South Wales (Sydney). There is a slight uptick in New South Wales cases, but nowhere near the April levels. If there was a true resurgence of COVID in Australia, Sydney would get hit as badly as Melbourne. But it's not ... That critical piece of information is missing from nearly all press accounts, and what leads many morons to simply parrot country wide data, without regard to the particulars of a given country's geography and where the "resurgences" are happening. That's why you have people in NY tristate still cowering in fear, despite overwhelming evidence that the virus isn't a huge threat in that region. There are a lot of people celebrating a "look I told it was coming for those places" moments in citing that it got to Japan/Australia. But those places bought as much time as they could and their "spikes" will result in fewer deaths per capita and may yet also result in fewer cases per capita too. So the urgency to rush into getting it (let's not wear masks!) and getting through the pain is pretty misguided. I'm not saying you're this callous but it's definitely a vibe here that we should ignore masks and let this thing run rampant until we burn it out.
Deranged Rhino Posted July 27, 2020 Posted July 27, 2020 If you needed proof as to why we shouldn't listen to a guy like Gates, watch his dodgy AF interview here. And then remember he's not a doctor, and he spent lots of time flying to Epstein's island after he was convicted of being a pedophile. Gates isn't a good guy, despite his press. 3
Gary M Posted July 27, 2020 Posted July 27, 2020 2 hours ago, RiotAct said: I just hope those aren’t temporary drops giving people a false sense of hope. DEJA VU I could swear I heard those same lines when NY started to decline in numbers.
shoshin Posted July 27, 2020 Posted July 27, 2020 2 hours ago, Magox said: I can't think of anyone on this board that has been as wrong on what they believed to be the case when it comes to COVID-19 as you have. You essentially parrot mainstream media analysis. You've been proven wrong time and time again. Is that right? (1) I am not that worked up over case counts (not the mainstream media opinion) (2) We should have been in lockdown early except for maybe 2 weeks to get ready and NYC a little longer (not the mainstream media opinion) (3) We should be just protecting the vulnerable and taking other reasonable measures: stadium settings maybe minimized, encouraging mask wearing, work from home if do-able (not the mainstream media opinion) (4) Cases/deaths will almost certainly not return to an area once it gets smoked (not the mainstream media opinion) (5) Schools should be open this fall with only minimal distancing measures that should be lifted quickly if things go well (not the mainstream media opinion) I believe in vaccines and not that Fauci/Gates created Covid-19. You tell everyone you are right all the time but you're not and when called on it, as I have had to do a few times, you turn extra bitter. You post some good numbers. Is being a dick is important for your board standing or something?
Kemp Posted July 27, 2020 Posted July 27, 2020 https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/27/health/florida-covid-children-hospitalizations/index.html
GG Posted July 27, 2020 Posted July 27, 2020 4 minutes ago, shoshin said: There are a lot of people celebrating a "look I told it was coming for those places" moments in citing that it got to Japan/Australia. But those places bought as much time as they could and their "spikes" will result in fewer deaths per capita and may yet also result in fewer cases per capita too. So the urgency to rush into getting it (let's not wear masks!) and getting through the pain is pretty misguided. I'm not saying you're this callous but it's definitely a vibe here that we should ignore masks and let this thing run rampant until we burn it out. There's no celebration in pointing out that a virus does viral things. That's why we keep hammering away at the falsehoods that you like to perpetuate. How much data and cases do you need to see that show how this virus spreads and using a single country analysis is useless, especially for a populous country with widely spread out population centers? What's going to be the next scare story when AZ, CA & TX show negligible new cases in about 1-2 weeks? 1
Magox Posted July 27, 2020 Posted July 27, 2020 8 minutes ago, GG said: There's no celebration in pointing out that a virus does viral things. That's why we keep hammering away at the falsehoods that you like to perpetuate. How much data and cases do you need to see that show how this virus spreads and using a single country analysis is useless, especially for a populous country with widely spread out population centers? What's going to be the next scare story when AZ, CA & TX show negligible new cases in about 1-2 weeks? Baselines matter. That's why every time I'd hear people say we could "increased testing, wear masks and contact tracing" and believe that this would be the solution to "get things under control" when the outbreak was already in place is laughable. It's as if they have zero common sense. Masks work on the margins. Increased testing helps you recognize who is and isn't positive at that moment. Contact tracing helps recognize some others who are positive. These tools while marginally helpful are fractional in their overall efficacy when you have tens of thousands of infected people in a particular area. Yet, the media and their gullible viewers keep parroting these things over and over despite all the data and evidence that points to the contrary.
GaryPinC Posted July 27, 2020 Posted July 27, 2020 1 hour ago, Magox said: Imagine that. Home of some of the top epidemiologists in the world are not believers in masks. Lest not forget that Fauci wasn't early on either and the way he described his stance against them in mocking terms of those that did "to make them feel better", was his true stance on the matter. No one says things in that sort of descriptive manner without truly believing what they were saying. It's not as if tranmission of droplets are any different with COVID than the standard flu lol. Droplets are droplets. There are so many variables with mask wearing, all in all, I wear them just out of respect for others if I know that I will be close to other people. But the data has shown us time and time again that mask usage in all the major hit cities has had very little effect in slowing down the virus. We can argue all day long about the efficacy of masks, it still won't change the fact that the data has shown that the cities with the highest mask compliance/mandates have had little effect on the overall numbers. Once a city has a somewhat high prevalency, the virus is going to do what a virus does. Spread and eventually burnout. Really? And why is that? If you actually dig into their rationale, it usually revolves around the fact that experts prefer people concentrate on hand-washing, social distancing, and self-isolation (like Bundgaard) or that many looked at the tiny size of the viral particle but failed to consider it would be spread on water droplets. Already, Bundgaard advocating for face shields means his study may have focused on if masks self-protect. I don't know, but when it comes out this needs to be evaluated so we can appreciate the full picture on the role of masks. There is ample proof masks help protect others when you are infected and with an asymptomatically contagious virus, that becomes critical. It is doubtful simple masks offer much self-protection and some experts worry people will falsely rely on it and won't be diligent in self protection. Your mask wearing helps protect others. "the virus is going to do what a virus does" Sure, except that we are trying to dilute what the virus is doing. Go look at data for S. Korea, China, Japan to see how it did over there. You're on here crowing about how you follow the data. In science, in an emerging area, you can't just follow the data blindly. Data is collected from studies, and studies have limitations and biases. Many different studies and forms of data from different investigators must be collected before drawing conclusions and even then we must be careful to reconsider if needed. Things look different now than they did at the beginning of March and will look different next year. You follow the data? Were you one of those proclaiming this thing wasn't as bad as the flu back in early March, ignoring the problem of comparing an emerging virus to an endemic one? Were you one of those in late June/early July proclaiming the outbreaks in Florida, Texas, Arizona were simply due to increased testing because deaths hadn't risen yet? Even though recent history shows deaths trails incidence of new cases by 1-2 weeks. Because there were plenty of those people even if you were not among them. You say you predicted this virus would have outbreaks again? Big deal, the controlling factor is how bad will it be, and our efforts to control the spread can have some say over that. I also predicted the re-emergence in Ohio. Why? Our hospitalizations never bottomed out enough before reopening, too many people were convinced it would go away with the warm weather and the nutty right wing extremists and younger crowd were going to try and return life to normal and ignore protective measures. Not difficult to predict. And guess what? There is no evidence "herd immunity" will extinguish the virus (recent international outbreaks point otherwise) or bring it under enough control until we get a vaccine. Anyone who truly cares about getting the economy going and returning a semblance of normal should realize masks, distancing, etc are critical to that until either endemic outbreaks remain small enough or a vaccine is proven and in the population. People want to feel safe when they go out to spend money, unfortunately we have to rely on each other for that and in the USA we seem to be terrible at making small everyday changes for the good of others.
KD in CA Posted July 27, 2020 Posted July 27, 2020 28 minutes ago, Kemp said: https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/27/health/florida-covid-children-hospitalizations/index.html Just curious....do you think the media campaign designed to flip Florida will be able to keep the scare tactics going for another 3+ months?
GG Posted July 27, 2020 Posted July 27, 2020 15 minutes ago, Magox said: Yet, the media and their gullible viewers keep parroting these things over and over despite all the data and evidence that points to the contrary. Makes you wonder if there's an alterior motive?
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