3rdnlng Posted July 15, 2020 Posted July 15, 2020 6 hours ago, billsfan1959 said: No. It didn't. Several people were dismissed or left. Most of the people involved in the pandemic infrastructure are still there, but reassigned where their expertise could be used in collaboration in other areas as well. As usual, you have no idea what you are talking about. I like you better under your Melania Trump persona. At least then I know your posts are intentionally idiotic. Those two commented on each other's post upthread. 3 hours ago, Chef Jim said: So I have to cancel my visit to NY to see my family and celebrate my mom's 95th birthday. I am required to quarantine for 14 days. I called the NY Dept of Health and they said I need to stay for 14 days. I said my trip is only 5 days. So they will hold me hostage for two weeks which makes no sense. You figure they'd want my ass out of NY and back in CA ASAP. Sorry mom but I'm going to spend my money elsewhere. What did he know in November? Fly into Cleveland and rent a car. I'm in and out of NY and PA all the time and we here in WNY have a lot of Ohioans.
Big Blitz Posted July 15, 2020 Posted July 15, 2020 (edited) Translation: A state that "reopened too soon" had all the capacity it said we needed back in March to justify destroying the country. They had 146K cases on June 29. At 291K now. It's been the typical 7-14 days before hospitalization is needed and they aren't overwhelmed. If this doesn't trend up in the next 3-4 days you have proof right here at home we can be full normal and manage ON OUR OWN because we are not overwhelming the system. "Cases!" should not be scaring people they should be forcing you to do the math; and what's happened is the low info with severe TDS see death, chaos, and disaster everywhere. The politicians know this and want to be seen as keeping their "cases!" low and claim they are winning. While your kids do fake learning fully online and their lives and development potentially permanently damaged. Yea, that's winning right there. This is the data that was always supposed to matter that justified us stopping living as normal. Biggest breach of trust in the history of the planet. Edited July 15, 2020 by Big Blitz 1
Chef Jim Posted July 15, 2020 Posted July 15, 2020 48 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: Fly into Cleveland and rent a car. I'm in and out of NY and PA all the time and we here in WNY have a lot of Ohioans. Considering that.
3rdnlng Posted July 15, 2020 Posted July 15, 2020 6 minutes ago, Chef Jim said: Considering that. You might even be able to fly into Erie to save some driving but I'd check PA's airport reporting requirements first. 1
ALF Posted July 15, 2020 Posted July 15, 2020 15 hours ago, Taro T said: In HINDSIGHT, yes, all flights from China should've been halted on NYD & all flights from Europe on 1/31. In real time, 45 caught serious flack for halting travel from China at the end of January & nobody knew how bad things were going to get in Italy & Spain then either. MAYBE he could've shut down travel from Europe earlier in March, but that's reviewing with the benefit of hindsight & can't see any way travel from there would've been shut down in February. Can't really blame anyone (but the CCP) for decisions this winter, but by mid-April some rules such as forcing NYS nursing homes to admit residents with COVID should have been rescinded. And the deaths caused after that due to rules like it fall squarely on the decision makers' shoulders. I don't blame 45 for not shutting down air travel to and from Europe a lot sooner , I blame the CDC , Fauci and WHO 1
shoshin Posted July 15, 2020 Posted July 15, 2020 (edited) Trump admin doing "something" nationally, creating new government infrastructure to track hospital availability. Setting aside the article's political undertone, I have no idea why they don't work with the CDC to do this, but it's the first sign of the admin initiating anything nationally to track one of the most critical data points. It starts July 15, over 4 months into the pandemic. No word on transparency but here's hoping it's transparent and not politicized. The CDC data is a week late but it's always nicely objective.Also, this is all manual entry into some database, which sounds a very 1996 approach. WASHINGTON — The Trump administration has ordered hospitals to bypass the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and send all Covid-19 patient information to a central database in Washington beginning on Wednesday. The move has alarmed health experts who fear the data will be politicized or withheld from the public. The new instructions were posted recently in a little-noticed document on the Department of Health and Human Services website. From now on, the department — not the C.D.C. — will collect daily reports about the patients that each hospital is treating, the number of available beds and ventilators, and other information vital to tracking the pandemic. Officials say the change will streamline data gathering and assist the White House coronavirus task force in allocating scarce supplies like personal protective gear and remdesivir, the first drug shown to be effective against the virus. But the Health and Human Services database that will receive new information is not open to the public, which could affect the work of scores of researchers, modelers and health officials who rely on C.D.C. data to make projections and crucial decisions. Edited July 15, 2020 by shoshin
fansince88 Posted July 15, 2020 Posted July 15, 2020 46 minutes ago, shoshin said: Trump admin doing "something" nationally, creating new government infrastructure to track hospital availability. Setting aside the article's political undertone, I have no idea why they don't work with the CDC to do this, but it's the first sign of the admin initiating anything nationally to track one of the most critical data points. It starts July 15, over 4 months into the pandemic. No word on transparency but here's hoping it's transparent and not politicized. The CDC data is a week late but it's always nicely objective.Also, this is all manual entry into some database, which sounds a very 1996 approach. WASHINGTON — The Trump administration has ordered hospitals to bypass the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and send all Covid-19 patient information to a central database in Washington beginning on Wednesday. The move has alarmed health experts who fear the data will be politicized or withheld from the public. The new instructions were posted recently in a little-noticed document on the Department of Health and Human Services website. From now on, the department — not the C.D.C. — will collect daily reports about the patients that each hospital is treating, the number of available beds and ventilators, and other information vital to tracking the pandemic. Officials say the change will streamline data gathering and assist the White House coronavirus task force in allocating scarce supplies like personal protective gear and remdesivir, the first drug shown to be effective against the virus. But the Health and Human Services database that will receive new information is not open to the public, which could affect the work of scores of researchers, modelers and health officials who rely on C.D.C. data to make projections and crucial decisions. I have a hard time reading you. Are you more of a I dont like Trump but will give him honor due him when he is right guy?
LB3 Posted July 15, 2020 Posted July 15, 2020 7 hours ago, 3rdnlng said: Those two commented on each other's post upthread. Fly into Cleveland and rent a car. I'm in and out of NY and PA all the time and we here in WNY have a lot of Ohioans. Ohio is on the quarantine list. My brother was supposed to visit from Cleveland in a few weeks. That's up in the air now.
Kemp Posted July 15, 2020 Posted July 15, 2020 20 hours ago, GG said: How many times does federalism need to be explained to you? The federal government is not the primary responder. If you want to make an argument that USA's system of governing is not ideal when dealing with a crisis like this, which puts the primary burden on local and state governments, then we can discuss it. But then you would have to acknowledge that there is a huge difference in how the various states handled the crisis, and why NYS was exceptionally bad. Note that it's not a blue and red issue, because CA & WA did a much better job in early containment. I responded. You ignored it. Have you disparaged a black person intellect today yet? So, Trump's policy of pitting one state against another and telling people that governors who are nicer to him should get preference in health relief is the correct way a pandemic should be handled by a country? Is Federalism a President ignoring a pandemic? If there was no travel between states, your notion might be correct, but that's not how it works. Here's your chance to explain it to me. Curious as to where it's written that health concerns fall under the purview of governors. Why not mayors? Why not police departments? Why not the ASPCA? Why not the public library? CA and WA did a better job because they faced a less lethal strain in a far less dense populace, but you already knew that. 1
LB3 Posted July 15, 2020 Posted July 15, 2020 10 minutes ago, Kemp said: So, Trump's policy of pitting one state against another and telling people that governors who are nicer to him should get preference in health relief is the correct way a pandemic should be handled by a country? Is Federalism a President ignoring a pandemic? If there was no travel between states, your notion might be correct, but that's not how it works. Here's your chance to explain it to me. Curious as to where it's written that health concerns fall under the purview of governors. Why not mayors? Why not police departments? Why not the ASPCA? Why not the public library? CA and WA did a better job because they faced a less lethal strain in a far less dense populace, but you already knew that. You really are an ignorant moron with no clue how America works. CA has done a pisspoor job, but you already knew that. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK221231/ From the link: From a historical and constitutional perspective, public health is largely a local and state function. The role of the states and localities is a primary and important one. The federal government, however, has the resources, expertise, and the obligation to assess the health of the nation and to make recommendations for its improvement.
Kemp Posted July 15, 2020 Posted July 15, 2020 19 hours ago, Big Blitz said: If the Breitbart's and Daily Wires, or Tucker Carlsons were so riddled with falsehoods, lies, and GROSS distortions, you'd be able to easily call them out and refute them. Instead, there are campaigns to strip them of advertising dollars because they are so successful. You can't find examples of conservative media lying? You must be a great researcher. Here's just a couple of examples of lies told on Fox. Yeah, I know it's a waste of time to present facts to someone who needs to stay the course on their agenda. Tucker Carlson said "In July 2010 the government said small businesses -- 60 percent -- will lose their health care, 45 percent of big business and a large percentage of individual health." Sean Hannity, Nov. 11, 2013 "And President Obama has offered to pay out of his own pocket for the museum of Muslim culture out of his own pocket, yet it's the Republican National Committee who's paying for this." Anna Kooiman, Oct. 5, 2013 White House Political Director Patrick Gaspard once served as the "right-hand man" for Bertha Lewis, who heads up ACORN. Steve Doocy, Sept. 29, 2009 "Look at the debt that has been accumulated in the last two years. It's more debt under this president than all those other presidents combined." Sarah Palin, May 31, 2011 "Democrats are poised now to cause this largest tax increase in U.S. history." Sarah Palin, Aug. 1, 2010 "The insurance industry is actually run by mostly Democrats." Dana Perino, Oct. 31, 2013 The Obama administration "manipulated deportation data to make it appear that the Border Patrol was deporting more illegal immigrants than the Bush administration." Lou Dobbs, July 1, 2014 Says the Texas State Board of Education is considering eliminating references to Christmas and the Constitution in textbooks. Gretchen Carlson, March 10, 2010 Because of President Barack Obama’s failure to "push job creation," the black unemployment rate in Ferguson, Mo., is three times higher than the white unemployment rate. Lou Dobbs, Aug. 19, 2014 "We researched to find out if anybody on Fox News had ever said you're going to jail if you don't buy health insurance. Nobody's ever said it." Bill O’Reilly, Oct. 27, 2010 "If you make more than $250,000 a year … you only really take home about $125,000." Steve Doocy, July 11, 2012 A Census Bureau worker says he was told to skew information to bring the unemployment rate down "as we headed into an election season." Elisabeth Hasselbeck, Nov. 19, 2013 "And finally tonight, although it pains me to say this, Jon Stewart? Comedy Central? He was right. Now on his program last night, he mentioned that we had played some incorrect video on this program last week while talking about the Republican health care rally on Capitol Hill. He was correct, we screwed up, we aired some video of a rally in September, along with a video from the actual event. It was an inadvertent mistake, but a mistake nonetheless, so Mr. Stewart. you were right, we apologize. But by the way, I wanna thank you, and all your writers, for watching." Sean Hannity, Nov. 12, 2009 The United Way and Enroll America, in Coral Gables, Fla., had "navigators going door to door, knocking on the homes of the uninsured … helping them navigate through the different plans that are available. Phil Keating, Oct. 1, 2013 Less than 10 percent of Obama's Cabinet appointees "have any experience in the private sector." Glenn Beck, Nov. 30, 2009 During the lead-up to the American Revolutionary War, "some guy in Boston got his head blown off because he tried to secretly raise the tax on tea." Andrea Tantaros, Jan. 15, 2014 "American troops have never been under the formal control of another nation." Karl Rove, March 23, 2001 "The 'Denver Post' has actually hired an editor to promote pot." Bill O’Reilly, Dec. 9, 2013 "The amount of attention paid this week to Chris Christie makes the coverage of Benghazi ... pale in significance." Karl Rove, Jan. 12, 2014 Liberals have figured out a Facebook algorithm and "all the people getting banned from Facebook are somehow conservatives." Todd Starnes, April 17, 2014 Obamacare is "one big fat VA system." Kimberly Guilfoyle, May 21, 2014 "Under the Obama plan . . . all the health care in this country is eventually going to be run by the government." Sen. Tom Coburn, March 4, 2009 If you log into the government's Cash for Clunkers website (cars.gov) from your home computer, the government can "seize all of your personal and private" information, and track your computer activity. Kimberly Guilfoyle, July 31, 2009 The Massachusetts health care plan is "wildly unpopular" among state residents. Laura Ingraham, May 12, 2011 "The Constitution simply does not authorize the federal government to own any of this land (in the Western states)." Andrew Napolitano, April 23, 2014 Says President Barack Obama is "sending a much larger (force) " to deal with Ebola "than ISIS is getting." Brit Hume, Sept. 21, 2014 On climate change, "the temperature readings have been fabricated, and it's all blowing up in their (scientists') faces." Dana Perino, Feb. 9, 2015 Says President Barack Obama’s recent New York fundraising trip "cost between $25 million and $50 million." Donald Trump, Oct. 13, 2014 Under President Barack Obama, "8.3 (million) fewer Americans are working today than there were four years ago." Sean Hannity, Jan. 20, 2013 Seniors and the disabled "will have to stand in front of Obama's 'death panel' so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their 'level of productivity in society,' whether they are worthy of health care." Sarah Palin, Aug. 7, 2009 New poll by YouGov shows that 7/10 people who voted for President Obama’s re-election in 2012 ‘regret’ doing so Fox and Friend tweet, Feb. 19, 2014 "NASA scientists fudged the numbers to make 1998 the hottest year to overstate the extent of global warming." Steve Doocy, June 24, 2014 A new Colorado law "literally allows residents to print ballots from their home computers, then encourages them to turn ballots over to ‘collectors.’ " Megyn Kelly, Oct. 21, 2014 The Affordable Care Act alters the "sensible doctor-patient-relationship-centered health care program ... we see today." Sarah Palin, Nov. 24, 2013 Since 1965, the United States has spent "untold trillions" yet the poverty rate hasn’t budged. Bill O’Reilly, July 26, 2011 Says Colorado food stamp recipients can use ATMs to get cash to buy marijuana. Brian Kilmeade, Jan. 21, 2014 "Attorney General Eric Holder is involved in the dismissal of the criminal charges" against the New Black Panther Party for voter intimidation Bill O’Reilly, July 17, 2010 "Barack Obama had 150 days in the U.S. Senate where he was able to vote quite often 'present.' " Sarah Palin, Feb. 6, 2010 "It will cost $50,000 per enrollee in Obamacare over the next 10 years." Stuart Varney, Jan. 27, 2015 "We're going to be looking at $8 billion a day that we're going to be pouring into foreign countries in order to import that make-up fuel that we're going to need to take the place of what we could have gotten out of the Gulf (of Mexico)." Sarah Palin, May 1, 2013 "Why do we have automatic citizenship upon birth? We're the only country in the world that has it." Glenn Beck, June 10, 2009
Kemp Posted July 15, 2020 Posted July 15, 2020 18 hours ago, snafu said: NYS is abiding by CDC guidelines for reopening. It says it right in the NYS Forward materials. The CDC is a Federal Agency last I checked. Cuomo publicly thanked the Administration a few times during the worst of the NYS outbreak. Are you sure that you're not overstating things? Pretty much everyone made some big mistakes when little was known and everyone was panicked. Whether the mistakes get repeated or continue is worthy of criticism. Saying that there is only a couple of cases and they will be gone in a couple of days is not a mistake. It was a lie. Granted, it falls within the realm of possibility that Trump was in error, because he is a moron. That he still continues pushing the idea that it will disappear by magic proves he is lying, because it's difficult to believe that anyone that can tie his own shoes could believe this. I am assuming that Trump has the ability to tie his own shoes. 18 hours ago, keepthefaith said: Dogma. Candy. 17 hours ago, MILFHUNTER#518 said: I was told by a medical professional that the one used here in NYS is at least 90 something percent accurate. Do you live in NYS? If so, the ones used here by NYS DOH should be pretty good. My wife and me had pneumonia in early February. I haven't checked the latest stats so it's possible they now are 90% effective. What gives me pause is that at least anecdotally, it's possible that being infected doesn't automatically provide immunity, a pretty scary possibility.
Kemp Posted July 15, 2020 Posted July 15, 2020 (edited) 17 hours ago, BillsFanNC said: Trump is wrong for blaming the early testing roll-out failures on Obama and you're wrong for blaming it on Trump. Most sane people blame it on a plethora of variables that can be distilled down to: bloated government bureaucracy. What I blame Trump for is minimizing the virus and causing many of his supporters to believe it's either a hoax or no big deal. 45 minutes ago, LB3 said: 45 minutes ago, LB3 said: From a historical and constitutional perspective, public health is largely a local and state function. The role of the states and localities is a primary and important one. The federal government, however, has the resources, expertise, and the obligation to assess the health of the nation and to make recommendations for its improvement. Trump has failed on the highlighted more than any office holder in the history of the country. Thanks for providing this tidbit. Edited July 15, 2020 by Kemp
LB3 Posted July 15, 2020 Posted July 15, 2020 8 minutes ago, Kemp said: What I blame Trump for is minimizing the virus and causing many of his supporters to believe it's either a hoax or no big deal. Trump has failed on the highlighted more than any office holder in the history of the country. Thanks for providing this tidbit. Has the CDC not provided recommendations? Fauci? Birx? 1
snafu Posted July 15, 2020 Posted July 15, 2020 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Kemp said: Saying that there is only a couple of cases and they will be gone in a couple of days is not a mistake. It was a lie. Granted, it falls within the realm of possibility that Trump was in error, because he is a moron. That he still continues pushing the idea that it will disappear by magic proves he is lying, because it's difficult to believe that anyone that can tie his own shoes could believe this. I am assuming that Trump has the ability to tie his own shoes. I said: a lot of people made bad mistakes. You reply: Trump is a liar. I think Trump made that statement (lie, stupid comment, whatever) in early February. I can cherrypick quotes, too. Here is an article laying out “stupid lies” by NYC health officials, Barbot and Levine, and Cuomo. Here is this Cuomo quote from early MARCH: “Excuse our arrogance as New Yorkers — I speak for the mayor also on this one — we think we have the best health care system on the planet right here in New York,” Cuomo said. “So, when you’re saying, what happened in other countries versus what happened here, we don’t even think it’s going to be as bad as it was in other countries.” https://www.nationalreview.com/news/new-york-city-officials-were-slow-to-take-coronavirus-seriously/ Here is DeBlasio (MARCH 13): "We want people to go about their lives," he said on March 13. "We want people to rest assured that a lot is being done to protect them." https://www.axios.com/new-york-city-de-blasio-coronavirus-comments-34cf5a9b-9b5d-4987-97d6-e9fd3ba03e24.html As I said, a lot of people made bad mistakes. Like usual, you want to focus solely on one person. That’s your hate talking. I only bring up these quotes as an example of things that shouldn’t have been said — like Trump’s quote. I’m not going to classify them as stupid or lies, just because of the speaker’s party or their personality. Edited July 15, 2020 by snafu 2
SoCal Deek Posted July 15, 2020 Posted July 15, 2020 Yesterday, Tuesday, three states (CA, FL, TX) reported triple digit deaths from Covid 19. Thirty states were in single digits or reported zero fatalities. NY state registered 17 deaths, down from close 1,000 at the height of the pandemic. The media continues to fan the flames of hysteria, but in reality this thing has simply moved (not spread) to a new part of the country. And even with that move into fertile territory the death toll in the south and west is less than 10% per capita of what we saw in the NY metro area in the spring. 1
Magox Posted July 15, 2020 Posted July 15, 2020 This issue of hospitalization data filtering through HHS rather than CDC to streamline their process most likely has a tinge of truth to it. But I also believe it is their frustration along with Dr. Birx with the CDC. I don't believe they are happy with how they assess the data and truth be told they have reason to be skeptical. With that said, I also believe so that they want to have more control of the narrative and having the data allows them some more control.
SoCal Deek Posted July 15, 2020 Posted July 15, 2020 6 minutes ago, Magox said: This issue of hospitalization data filtering through HHS rather than CDC to streamline their process most likely has a tinge of truth to it. But I also believe it is their frustration along with Dr. Birx with the CDC. I don't believe they are happy with how they assess the data and truth be told they have reason to be skeptical. With that said, I also believe so that they want to have more control of the narrative and having the data allows them some more control. I’m not a genius. I quote the data every day. If I blame the Trump administration for anything it’s in running away from this topic as it moved into the SW. They would be better served by addressing it again head on. America needs a refresher course in Covid 19 including guidelines that are as nimble as the virus is proving to be. The mistake was, and remains, treating the entire country as if the issue is the same everywhere...it’s wasn’t and it still isn’t! 1 1
Gene Frenkle Posted July 15, 2020 Posted July 15, 2020 9 minutes ago, Magox said: This issue of hospitalization data filtering through HHS rather than CDC to streamline their process most likely has a tinge of truth to it. But I also believe it is their frustration along with Dr. Birx with the CDC. I don't believe they are happy with how they assess the data and truth be told they have reason to be skeptical. With that said, I also believe so that they want to have more control of the narrative and having the data allows them some more control. Really, ya think? What a joke.
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