Magox Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 2 minutes ago, shoshin said: Yes. Mortality is not the best metric to measure success in dealing with this and reopening. It’s a good measure to know for sure because if it’s high then we have more serious consequences for spread of Covid. It’s just not the measure that makes sense to control opening. Currently mortality is the only decent measure of progress we have but it’s a big macro number not without its own problems. I do think mortality rates is a very important metric but it should categorized in age, Comorbidities, age + comorbidities. I also think the incoming hospital data on who is being hospitalized and who is dying is also another important metric. Also what you suggested in regards to hospital capacity and utilization would make sense. Plus I think you have to consider all of the residual effects of the shutdown, not just economic but overall public health. I mean, if someone dies from the Coronavirus, does that make it more important or takes precedence over people who die of a heart attack or suicide as a result of the shutdown? A death is a death . Did you see that NY times article I posted in the statistical thread? Physicians in the US fear that based off of the dramatic drop offs in reported heart attacks that there may be more deaths that are being caused by heart attacks than the Coronavirus. In Australia they conducted a research paper and they show more people have died of heart attacks in Australia than Coronavirus. Even if this isn’t the case, I do think we can safely say there are many deaths occurring that are heart related due to not getting proper care due to the shutdowns. Especially when you consider each year we have 650k deaths related to heart disease each year in the US. All these things should be considered and I am 99% certain that Covid Public health outcomes is being weighted far more than the overall public health outcomes due to these shut downs. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 https://twitter.com/officialmcafee/status/1253961989937823745 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 An ER Physician/Entrepreneur Perspective on the Wuhan Virus American Thinker, by Trevor Thomas Original Article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoshin Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Magox said: Did you see that NY times article I posted in the statistical thread? Physicians in the US fear that based off of the dramatic drop offs in reported heart attacks that there may be more deaths that are being caused by heart attacks than the Coronavirus. In Australia they conducted a research paper and they show more people have died of heart attacks in Australia than Coronavirus. Even if this isn’t the case, I do think we can safely say there are many deaths occurring that are heart related due to not getting proper care due to the shutdowns. Especially when you consider each year we have 650k deaths related to heart disease each year in the US. All these things should be considered and I am 99% certain that Covid Public health outcomes is being weighted far more than the overall public health outcomes due to these shut downs. We have both made this point on hospitalization/health care suffering for many others who are not covid patients. That's why overall hospital capacity is the best metric for phased reopening. We know that covid patients mob the health care system and that continued spread will take up resources. So it makes sense to look at hospitalization as the limiting resource to reopening. If hospitals in a region are at or near capacity, total shutdown is needed. As that wanes, reopening should happen. By the way, the Trump guidelines kind of work like this. The first step in reopening is that "all patients" can be treated by their hospitals without "crisis care." Only then do you start phase 1 (along with other metrics). And after establishing that cases are declining and hospitals are still operating without crisis care, you can move to the next step. So this is not a new idea--it's right there in the Open Up America guidelines that no state is following(!!). We can really get ahead of this issue and stamp this out for good with widespread testing and contact tracing. Some states are starting to put together more comprehensive plans around this. Edited April 26, 2020 by shoshin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince88 Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 Just watched this hour long video. If you are looking for info and education this is for you. If you are here because every dumb reply you post makes you .30 dont bother. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 (edited) @oldmanfan https://twitter.com/soybean61/status/1254283907886874624 https://twitter.com/SMcbryson/status/1254293309293355009 Could a New Ultraviolet Technology Fight the Spread of Coronavirus? A technique that zaps airborne viruses with a narrow-wavelength band of UV light shows promise for curtailing the person-to-person spread of COVID-19 in indoor public places. The technology, developed by Columbia University’s Center for Radiological Research, uses lamps that emit continuous, low doses of a particular wavelength of ultraviolent light, known as far-UVC, which can kill viruses and bacteria without harming human skin, eyes and other tissues, as is the problem with conventional UV light. “Far-UVC light has the potential to be a ‘game changer,’” said David Brenner, professor of radiation biophysics and director of the center. “It can be safely used in occupied public spaces, and it kills pathogens in the air before we can breathe them in.” The research team’s experiments have shown far-UVC effective in eradicating two types of airborne seasonal coronaviruses (the ones that cause coughs and colds). The researchers are now testing the light against the SARS-CoV-2 virus at Columbia in a biosafety laboratory, with encouraging results, Brenner said. ... Edited April 26, 2020 by Foxx 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iF9XRXtqRHg&feature=emb_logo 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 As someone who's living in the Jersey hot zone and been locked down for months now, I'd like to say ***** China. Cut off our food exports to them, let em all starve. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 13 hours ago, Boatdrinks said: I’d like to see more numbers on the % of hospitalized that have an underlying health issue. NYC numbers were striking. This is looking more like a personal/ individual health issue . Still potential to flood hospitals , but it seems like they’ve ramped up capacity to deal with it. ..certainly agree, bur labeling everything Covid-19 related (deaths in particular) nets you more money from the Feds.......if it was not for Covid-19, I never would have known that we lose 1,800 US citizens daily to heart related disease or 649,000 annually.....I do have a problem with data being released from "studies"......seems to me a multitude of inconsistencies starting with public release prior to peer reviews, validity of sample size to draw valuable conclusions, etc......want public acclaim for your study?....fear mongering?....does that have an impact on public confidence and lockdown?......your call.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 16 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: As someone who's living in the Jersey hot zone and been locked down for months now, I'd like to say ***** China. Cut off our food exports to them, let em all starve. What about the farmers that grow the food? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 36 minutes ago, Foxx said: @oldmanfan https://twitter.com/soybean61/status/1254283907886874624 https://twitter.com/SMcbryson/status/1254293309293355009 Could a New Ultraviolet Technology Fight the Spread of Coronavirus? A technique that zaps airborne viruses with a narrow-wavelength band of UV light shows promise for curtailing the person-to-person spread of COVID-19 in indoor public places. The technology, developed by Columbia University’s Center for Radiological Research, uses lamps that emit continuous, low doses of a particular wavelength of ultraviolent light, known as far-UVC, which can kill viruses and bacteria without harming human skin, eyes and other tissues, as is the problem with conventional UV light. “Far-UVC light has the potential to be a ‘game changer,’” said David Brenner, professor of radiation biophysics and director of the center. “It can be safely used in occupied public spaces, and it kills pathogens in the air before we can breathe them in.” The research team’s experiments have shown far-UVC effective in eradicating two types of airborne seasonal coronaviruses (the ones that cause coughs and colds). The researchers are now testing the light against the SARS-CoV-2 virus at Columbia in a biosafety laboratory, with encouraging results, Brenner said. ... Yes, using UV light to prevent exposure in spaces is logical and should be pursued. I’ve used UV lights in my lab for years to disinfect but as pointed out those applications are not compatible with having people in the room. Using UVC is a great idea. My previous comments were directed towards internal applications of UV light. While some have posted a couple companies thinking about that those applications have a long, long way to go to be considered. Again I serve on an FDA devices panel and the vast majority of such ideas do not get to approval. Not that they should not be considered but to point out the difficulties. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 . 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 A 57-page memo urged GOP campaigns to blame China for the coronavirus pandemic and insist the term 'Chinese virus' isn't racist GOPatheitc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 Just now, BillStime said: A 57-page memo urged GOP campaigns to blame China for the coronavirus pandemic and insist the term 'Chinese virus' isn't racist GOPatheitc Who do you blame for the virus that started in china? Canada? 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoshin Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 1 minute ago, westside2 said: Who do you blame for the virus that started in china? Canada? You - I blame you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 So I went to the store and wore a mask for the first time because I had to. Wore a bandana and all I could think of was this: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 Just now, BillStime said: You - I blame you. You're an idiot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 3 minutes ago, BillStime said: A 57-page memo urged GOP campaigns to blame China for the coronavirus pandemic and insist the term 'Chinese virus' isn't racist GOPatheitc When I go out and I have food from a restaurant that serves dim sum am I no longer able to say I’m eating Chinese food? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpberr Posted April 26, 2020 Share Posted April 26, 2020 14 hours ago, shoshin said: Comorbidity drives hospitalizations as was covered well in the Time article earlier this week. But making sure our hospitals have capacity to deal with Covid and regular patients is probably the best metric for being open and how much to be open. There's another angle to this, at least in PA, in that all health systems are not created equal. There are certainly the haves and have nots, and most often, it's the for-profit hospitals and systems that buckle first because they super crunch the pennies. They staff the leanest, pay the least which inevitably fields the B and C teams, have just enough equipment on hand for normal every day operations, and all decisions are made states away. Its very fragile. Same deal in the nursing homes. Some nursing homes are run very well. Others are nightmares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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