Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted January 22, 2020 Posted January 22, 2020 2 hours ago, WMDman said: I’d rather pay Yannick I think he will get tagged.
Rc2catch Posted January 22, 2020 Posted January 22, 2020 1 minute ago, billsfan89 said: Seattle gave up a 3rd round pick and mostly filler for Clowney, who if they let him walk and sign with another team will get a comp 3rd round pick back in 2021. So the cost for Clowney for Seattle is more in line with a rental player. They might resign him but I wouldn't be shocked if they let him test the market and take the comp pick. Personally I don't want to sign Clowney. I would rather target Yannick out of Jacksonville who is a bit younger and I feel like would fit better with the culture and defense. The cost cap wise would be the same but I think he is the one piece this team could add at significant expense that would fit the team's timeline and not cap them out going forward. I think that the defensive line needs an elite pass rusher. I think even if you brought back Lawson (who I would like to bring back and still sign Yannick) the pass rush is not consistent enough to be a factor against better O-lines with regularity. I think they need to bring back Lawson to keep the strength in numbers thing the D-line has and bring in a prime edge rusher like Yannick to take the defense over the top. I think the front office can't be too consumed with the future when considering what to do in free agency. If they cut Murphy and Kroft they have 101 million in cap space roughly speaking. They have enough money to resign 2-3 of their primary free agents (Spain, Phillips and Lawson) and make a move to get a big free agent like Yannick (And still have some space to add another mid-level contract and some depth pieces) and still roll over 20-30 million to help ease the burden on extensions that might hit in 2021. The window to win in the NFL is not always there long term. The Bills have a real chance to win in 2020 and they have to consider making a big move and spending on the team now. You don't have to be irresponsible but you can't be too cautious. I’m not expecting them to be frugal with the money. They can pay for production that’s no issue. I would be ok with keeping Lawson as our big rotation player for both end spots and signing Yannick. I’m not a big fan of Yannick but having him, Lawson and Hughes should definitely provide a nice pass rush.
billsfan89 Posted January 22, 2020 Posted January 22, 2020 12 minutes ago, Don Otreply said: If “big run” means big money, no. If fair money then yes/maybe. gonna be lots of disappointment at the end of free agency on this board, like every year, it’s like many are not paying any attention to how our FO does business.... me, I think I will be pleasantly surprised by the start of the season, but I’m the layed back sort, you know, sipping Pinot Grigio nibbling on dark chocolate, down in the Islands ????? ? Go Bills!!! Last off-season a lot of people really liked the free agency moves. Mitch was the best center on the market, Brown and Beasley were quality competent receivers brought in at a good price, Ty was considered a sleeper signing and Spain was considered a steal at his cost. Overall I loved what they did even if I did hate the Kroft signing. I would be ecstatic if they did another smart off-season with 1 upper level signing (similar to Mitch 10 million aav or more) then 2-3 mid-level signings (7-9 million aav.) I think most here would be happy. I more advocate signing Yannick and maybe another mid-level starter contract type player because I think the pieces this team is missing is more of an elite level game changers at WR and Edge. Finding an elite player at one of those positions in free agency is more than likely going to cost big money. I think it is still prudent to go after a big fish, resign your own talent and maybe make a few more minor signings. But I would be more than fine if they repeated last off-season. 1
DrDawkinstein Posted January 22, 2020 Posted January 22, 2020 No. Not at all. And I dont think Clowney would come to Buffalo even if we were able to outbid the Seahawks.
thebandit27 Posted January 22, 2020 Posted January 22, 2020 27 minutes ago, atlbillsfan1975 said: Always with a good take on these types of circumstances. The part about Gaines getting fired, is that you contacting dots or has there been some reporting on that? I like your take on FA and draft. Beane will know what’s what with Clowney, if he is available and they want to offer him a deal, I’m cool with it. Beane and McDermott deserve the benefit of the doubt when it come to the defensive side of the ball. Can anyone Name me one bad signing they have made on defense? Appreciate the sentiment for sure. The Gaine-O’Brien power struggle was at least partially related to Clowney. I believe Gaine has a good relationship with him. 2
DrDawkinstein Posted January 22, 2020 Posted January 22, 2020 2 hours ago, njbuff said: The Bills were in on trading for him, but fell short. Now that he might be free (if Seattle doesn't franchise him).......... Will the Bills make another strong push for him? 2 hours ago, njbuff said: Remember guys, they did try and trade for him. The Bills started talks to trade for him, and then Clowney delivered a short list of teams who he would consider signing long term with. And the Bills dropped out. Tells me the Bills werent on that list, and that is the end of all Clowney talk. 1
Nester Posted January 22, 2020 Posted January 22, 2020 no, I am under the impression we will not be swimming in the deep end of the FA pool this year. 1
Rc2catch Posted January 22, 2020 Posted January 22, 2020 2 minutes ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said: 2 JAGs don't make a Clowney Well I shall agree to disagree. I don’t think he’s a very good player. If you do more power to you. Not my place to judge others opinions. I still stand by my statement that you get better production from Murphy and Lawson than you would from clowney. 1
DrDawkinstein Posted January 22, 2020 Posted January 22, 2020 Just now, Rc2catch said: Well I shall agree to disagree. I don’t think he’s a very good player. If you do more power to you. Not my place to judge others opinions. I still stand by my statement that you get better production from Murphy and Lawson than you would from clowney. Yep, id rather see them spend the money on JPhillips, Shaq, and Yannick. No one has more penalties over the last 4 seasons than J Clowney. He has exponentially more than Jerry Hughes and it seems like Hughes has too many. 1
Happy Posted January 22, 2020 Posted January 22, 2020 3 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: Yep, id rather see them spend the money on JPhillips, Shaq, and Yannick. No one has more penalties over the last 4 seasons than J Clowney. He has exponentially more than Jerry Hughes and it seems like Hughes has too many. Interesting, I wasn't aware of this. Yes, it does seem like Hughes draws too many flags, though many of them are very questionable, like the refs are intentionally picking on Hughes.
NoSaint Posted January 22, 2020 Posted January 22, 2020 3 hours ago, njbuff said: The Bills were in on trading for him, but fell short. Now that he might be free (if Seattle doesn't franchise him).......... Will the Bills make another strong push for him? If they didn’t make the trade I don’t think anything’s changed that would justify a big jump in valuing him. id be down for the move but don’t see it happening
billsfan89 Posted January 22, 2020 Posted January 22, 2020 12 minutes ago, Rc2catch said: I’m not expecting them to be frugal with the money. They can pay for production that’s no issue. I would be ok with keeping Lawson as our big rotation player for both end spots and signing Yannick. I’m not a big fan of Yannick but having him, Lawson and Hughes should definitely provide a nice pass rush. Last off-season the offense in particular needed a lot of starters. They had one quality O-line player, a young QB and not much else on offense. They needed more than 2-3 big pieces. And the strategy of filling the biggest need with Mitch and then patching in mid to lower level signings around Josh worked (Along with drafting round 2-3 with offensive players.) But this off-season the team has a much better talent level and the pieces that are missing are higher end pieces. They need those last 2-3 big players to push the team over the top. I think in free agency they can at least find that 1 front line starter to fill a need and then address depth/role players with the rest of their space (after they retain 2-3 of the teams own free agents.) 7 minutes ago, Rc2catch said: Well I shall agree to disagree. I don’t think he’s a very good player. If you do more power to you. Not my place to judge others opinions. I still stand by my statement that you get better production from Murphy and Lawson than you would from clowney. That's fine if your argument is that Clowney isn't the type of player that would make the impact a big contract would justify. I kind of feel the same way about giving him a big contract, I would rather have Yannick because I think he is the better player and a bit younger. But I do think this team needs a significant upgrade at the Edge position, Shaq and Hughes are not frontline elite pass rushers and Murphy is a JAG or slightly above replacement level and Johnson is a longer term project.
DrDawkinstein Posted January 22, 2020 Posted January 22, 2020 2 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said: Interesting, I wasn't aware of this. Yes, it does seem like Hughes draws too many flags, though many of them are very questionable, like the refs are intentionally picking on Hughes. Yep... And 3 years ago when Hughes seemingly hit the height of his penalties, he had 6 all season... Clowney had 13 that year. 2 1
MJS Posted January 22, 2020 Posted January 22, 2020 Clowney has never had double digit sacks. He's like Jerry Hughes. We already have a Jerry Hughes. Just now, ScottLaw said: What is a process guy? Because every time a really good FA is mentioned as a possible signing someone chimes in “not part of the process”. I still don't get it. Clowney isn't "really good". Maybe above average. He's going to get paid like an elite player. Overpaying hopefully isn't a part of the process. 1
MJS Posted January 22, 2020 Posted January 22, 2020 1 minute ago, ScottLaw said: Lmao. They already have overpaid. Take a look at Stars contract and tell me they didn't overpay for him. Yep, that's an overpay for sure. But he's like the 15th highest paid DT where Clowney might be too 3 after this free agency period. That's a significant difference. He'll cost twice as much as Star. 1
Rc2catch Posted January 22, 2020 Posted January 22, 2020 7 minutes ago, billsfan89 said: Last off-season the offense in particular needed a lot of starters. They had one quality O-line player, a young QB and not much else on offense. They needed more than 2-3 big pieces. And the strategy of filling the biggest need with Mitch and then patching in mid to lower level signings around Josh worked (Along with drafting round 2-3 with offensive players.) But this off-season the team has a much better talent level and the pieces that are missing are higher end pieces. They need those last 2-3 big players to push the team over the top. I think in free agency they can at least find that 1 front line starter to fill a need and then address depth/role players with the rest of their space (after they retain 2-3 of the teams own free agents.) That's fine if your argument is that Clowney isn't the type of player that would make the impact a big contract would justify. I kind of feel the same way about giving him a big contract, I would rather have Yannick because I think he is the better player and a bit younger. But I do think this team needs a significant upgrade at the Edge position, Shaq and Hughes are not frontline elite pass rushers and Murphy is a JAG or slightly above replacement level and Johnson is a longer term project. I would not be happy to not add talent to the pass rush for next season. I don’t mind if they throw a big contract at someone they feel can make a legitimate impact. For me, it’s just not clowney. I don’t want to trot Lawson and Murphy back out next year without adding anyone I was only comparing their production together vs clowneys. He can make these huge impact plays rarely that show how elite he can be. It’s just too rare those plays happen for the contract he’ll receive. And he always seems to be on the injury report and manages to play through but it’s not that elite level he’s capable of. Lot of things can happen before we actually hit free agency though. Im watching Minnesota to see what happens with Everson griffin and Xavier Rhodes and Stefon diggs is my madden trade target ?. I think this year maybe more so than others is a big trade year. The trend for trades seems to be moving up yearly with bigger and bigger names moving around. With our current roster and amount of draft picks I think Beane could work his magic and land us an elite player already under contract for our first round pick and maybe some extra compensation added in. One thing I think everyone can agree on is we need those 2-3 impact players at pass rush and receiver, and then the other spots needing upgrades as well in backup RB, offensive line rather it’s guard or RT depending on Spain and Ford, possible tight end some want hooper if he’s available, starting corner opposite Tre, depending on who you talk to. I don’t count Loraxs replacement cause he did a few different things and were not getting one player to do what he did probably. I mentioned once before I was hoping Vosean would play well and earn some time, and he could spell Edmunds in the middle and they could move Edmunds around more similar to Alexander.
DrDawkinstein Posted January 22, 2020 Posted January 22, 2020 10 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: What is a process guy? Because every time a really good FA is mentioned as a possible signing someone chimes in “not part of the process”. I still don't get it. It's the most over-used, and most misused phrase on this board. Much like "high character" was back in the day.
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