Ayjent Posted January 22, 2020 Posted January 22, 2020 2 minutes ago, Buffalo Junction said: AJ Brown might be the closest physical comparison to Moulds. I haven’t watched much of him in in Tenn aside from when we played them. Nice breakdown. My Jefferson concerns are that he can get outmuscled by physical press corners, and that he’s a high-floor low-ceiling prospect. The latter isn’t necessarily a bad thing if he’s available in rounds 3-5. I’d be pretty happy if Beane spent a 3rd to draft a rookie that is better than all our depth WRs by game 1 of the regular season. Plus he grew up in an NFL household, so he’s not going to be shocked by the schedule and work demands. Jefferson can get bottled up sometimes because his route set up gets a little too cute, but I've also seen pretty good CBs try to press him and regret it because they don't get enough of him. Probably less likely to happen in the pros, but he is a ready made prospect and dedicated to his craft. He could instantly be a solid contributor with 400-600 yds, but you are probably right about him being what he is. I thought he'd be a 4th rounder, but I think his stock is going to rise throughout the predraft process. In other draft classes he'd be a higher considered player, but the buzz about the WRs is real, it's a loaded class.
thenorthremembers Posted January 22, 2020 Posted January 22, 2020 30 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said: Keeping an eye on Collin Johnson out of TX. 6'6" 220. One of the guys I am surprised isn't rated higher. Doesnt provide much in the way of position flex, but if you're talking strictly an X wideout he is an absolute beast. Has to prove he can run the route tree, but man do I like his nastiness.
947 Posted January 22, 2020 Posted January 22, 2020 3 hours ago, thenorthremembers said: I am a big Notre Dame guy, and love some of the highlight reel catches Claypool made while there, but I just dont think he has enough speed to be a full time NFL wideout. Way too big of a guy to struggle with contested catches, and his release at the LOS may be an issue. If he was a better blocker I'd say move him to off the ball tight end. I think he will be a project. If you want a big wideout you have to go Pittman Jr. over Claypool. Claypool seems to have an average of 6 inches of separation on his catches in that highlight reel. He does look great going after 50/50 balls, but he will have a VERY tough time getting open in the NFL. He also doesn't seem to have much open-field YAC ability, he runs right into tackles & goes down by the first tackler way too much. I don't see him as a year 1 contributor at all, but as a project, I could get behind him.
YoloinOhio Posted January 22, 2020 Posted January 22, 2020 (edited) Ed Oliver weighs in ... (side note, at first i actually thought he missed his pet dog) Edited January 22, 2020 by YoloinOhio
H2o Posted January 22, 2020 Posted January 22, 2020 18 minutes ago, 947 said: Claypool seems to have an average of 6 inches of separation on his catches in that highlight reel. He does look great going after 50/50 balls, but he will have a VERY tough time getting open in the NFL. He also doesn't seem to have much open-field YAC ability, he runs right into tackles & goes down by the first tackler way too much. I don't see him as a year 1 contributor at all, but as a project, I could get behind him. In A LOT of instances he's blown past his man or completely left him on the initial move, but his QB's were Brandon Wimbush and Ian Book. Wimbush was wildly inaccurate and most of the time he was having to adjust to Book's passes so it made him look like the defender was closer than they actually were. Book also doesn't see the field that well and misses him open a lot of times. He has no problem whatsoever getting separation. He also knows how to use that big frame to shield off defenders in tight spaces too. He broke a lot of initial tackle attempts as well to get extra yardage, but just like anyone else will be tackled on the first hit from time to time. No WR is Christian Okoye out there. Watch these few videos below. I've watched him his entire ND career and I promise you the kid is gonna be a legit WR in the NFL. 1
Lurker Posted January 22, 2020 Author Posted January 22, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said: Ed Oliver weighs in ... (side note, at first i actually thought he missed his pet dog) https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/tyrie-cleveland/OrKcR3E0JJ (sounds like Foster--UDFA) Pros: True deep threat player. Cleveland is exclusively an outside guy who can really stretch the field vertically. He ran a reported sub-4.4 at The Opening as a high school recruit. At 6-foot-2, Cleveland has some long strides when running. He can really eat up cushion on players who are playing against him in off coverage, often getting "even" with them and asserting advantage when getting vertical. His route tree consists of mostly 9-route, skinny posts and bubble screens, but for what he does, he does it pretty well. Cleveland is also a pretty decent blocker for a speed player. He knows how to square defenders up and generally has good hand placement to not get ripped or fanned away immediates. Cons: Where Cleveland is fast, he is not necessarily quick. His long speed and top speed are much more impressive than his short area quickness, as well as his first step acceleration. This causes his route tree to be very limited, as he is just a vertical outside player. This also hinders his ability to consistently separate from coverage. If he's got you in a straight line, he can get by you, but without much threat of directional variation, it's easy to plan for. At this point, Cleveland projects to just a vertical depth player in the NFL, but there is upside. Edited January 22, 2020 by Lurker 1
Ayjent Posted January 22, 2020 Posted January 22, 2020 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Lurker said: https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/tyrie-cleveland/OrKcR3E0JJ (sounds like Foster--UDFA) Pros: True deep threat player. Cleveland is exclusively an outside guy who can really stretch the field vertically. He ran a reported sub-4.4 at The Opening as a high school recruit. At 6-foot-2, Cleveland has some long strides when running. He can really eat up cushion on players who are playing against him in off coverage, often getting "even" with them and asserting advantage when getting vertical. His route tree consists of mostly 9-route, skinny posts and bubble screens, but for what he does, he does it pretty well. Cleveland is also a pretty decent blocker for a speed player. He knows how to square defenders up and generally has good hand placement to not get ripped or fanned away immediates. Cons: Where Cleveland is fast, he is not necessarily quick. His long speed and top speed are much more impressive than his short area quickness, as well as his first step acceleration. This causes his route tree to be very limited, as he is just a vertical outside player. This also hinders his ability to consistently separate from coverage. If he's got you in a straight line, he can get by you, but without much threat of directional variation, it's easy to plan for. At this point, Cleveland projects to just a vertical depth player in the NFL, but there is upside. I don't know about Cleveland, he never really impressed me that much while he was at Florida. He was a good guy to have, but I always thought Freddie Swain was a better receiver, and the most explosive player that Florida had at WR this year outside of Toney who is a bona fide gamebreaker that doesn't get many touches (why is an enigma to me, but I'm sure that there is a reason). Edited January 22, 2020 by Ayjent
Buffalo Junction Posted January 23, 2020 Posted January 23, 2020 5 hours ago, Ayjent said: Jefferson can get bottled up sometimes because his route set up gets a little too cute, but I've also seen pretty good CBs try to press him and regret it because they don't get enough of him. Probably less likely to happen in the pros, but he is a ready made prospect and dedicated to his craft. He could instantly be a solid contributor with 400-600 yds, but you are probably right about him being what he is. I thought he'd be a 4th rounder, but I think his stock is going to rise throughout the predraft process. In other draft classes he'd be a higher considered player, but the buzz about the WRs is real, it's a loaded class. He might still be a 4th rounder. There’s a lot of WR talent, and how Mel sees things could be wildly different from GMs.... ref. DK. Metcalf. Hard to tell anything before FA and the combine when all the agent talk and interviews kick into gear. I do think Jefferson has extra value for teams looking at a positional overhaul as opposed to teams looking to add home run hitters or develop talent. I could see Beane double dipping this draft and grabbing a WR with tons of potential and another with a high floor.... depends on the value. I’d rather swing and hit on a Robert Woods than swing and miss on a Carlos Rogers.
CEN-CAL17 Posted January 23, 2020 Posted January 23, 2020 2 hours ago, Buffalo Junction said: He might still be a 4th rounder. There’s a lot of WR talent, and how Mel sees things could be wildly different from GMs.... ref. DK. Metcalf. Hard to tell anything before FA and the combine when all the agent talk and interviews kick into gear. I do think Jefferson has extra value for teams looking at a positional overhaul as opposed to teams looking to add home run hitters or develop talent. I could see Beane double dipping this draft and grabbing a WR with tons of potential and another with a high floor.... depends on the value. I’d rather swing and hit on a Robert Woods than swing and miss on a Carlos Rogers. I went to the practice today... IMO Van Jefferson is the best WR at the senior Bowl. Great hands, quick in and out of his routes. Someone mentioned his setup causes trouble. I can see that, I did see that. But 4 out of 5 routes he was abusing the CB. Soft hands. My Senior Bowl WR ranking: 1. Van Jefferson 2. Quartney Davis 3. Michael Pittman Jr 4. James Proche 5. Denzel Mims Claypool and Collin Johnson are probably fighting for that next spot... 2
Buffalo Junction Posted January 23, 2020 Posted January 23, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, CEN-CAL17 said: I went to the practice today... IMO Van Jefferson is the best WR at the senior Bowl. Great hands, quick in and out of his routes. Someone mentioned his setup causes trouble. I can see that, I did see that. But 4 out of 5 routes he was abusing the CB. Soft hands. My Senior Bowl WR ranking: 1. Van Jefferson 2. Quartney Davis 3. Michael Pittman Jr 4. James Proche 5. Denzel Mims Claypool and Collin Johnson are probably fighting for that next spot... I have no doubt that he’s the best looking WR there. His route running is light years ahead of most college receivers and he has good hands. Go watch the LSU game where he pwns a cb repeatedly with technique. My viewpoint stems from him having advanced coaching (Dad’s an NFL WR turned NFL WR coach) coupled with him being 24 and having likely maxed out his physical potential as well. It’s in my other posts about Jefferson. He’s a solid bet to not only make a roster, but open the season as a WR 3.... high floor. I can’t recall him just flat out physically dominating top competition though. @Ayjent might be able to provide an example since he’s a ? fan. I’m just not sure if teams are going to run to the podium early for the kid unless he lights up the combine or fits need when there is an abundance of talent at the position. I can definitely see him fitting in with Gruden, McVay, or McCarthy. Jets will have the full book on the kid since his dads their WR coach. Out of curiosity. How did LaMical Perine look at practice? I’m curious about him since he has had moments where he just takes over a game, and other times there’s just no holes. Edited January 23, 2020 by Buffalo Junction
buffaloboyinATL Posted January 23, 2020 Posted January 23, 2020 16 hours ago, Lurker said: https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/tyrie-cleveland/OrKcR3E0JJ (sounds like Foster--UDFA) Pros: True deep threat player. Cleveland is exclusively an outside guy who can really stretch the field vertically. He ran a reported sub-4.4 at The Opening as a high school recruit. At 6-foot-2, Cleveland has some long strides when running. He can really eat up cushion on players who are playing against him in off coverage, often getting "even" with them and asserting advantage when getting vertical. His route tree consists of mostly 9-route, skinny posts and bubble screens, but for what he does, he does it pretty well. Cleveland is also a pretty decent blocker for a speed player. He knows how to square defenders up and generally has good hand placement to not get ripped or fanned away immediates. Cons: Where Cleveland is fast, he is not necessarily quick. His long speed and top speed are much more impressive than his short area quickness, as well as his first step acceleration. This causes his route tree to be very limited, as he is just a vertical outside player. This also hinders his ability to consistently separate from coverage. If he's got you in a straight line, he can get by you, but without much threat of directional variation, it's easy to plan for. At this point, Cleveland projects to just a vertical depth player in the NFL, but there is upside. If Ed Oliver wants him, I want him. sold.
TheBeaneBandit Posted January 23, 2020 Posted January 23, 2020 21 hours ago, thenorthremembers said: A.J. Brown from the Titans reminds me a lot of Moulds. A Minus the elite explosion before injuries took it away.
Solomon Grundy Posted January 23, 2020 Posted January 23, 2020 20 hours ago, Lurker said: https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/tyrie-cleveland/OrKcR3E0JJ (sounds like Foster--UDFA) Pros: True deep threat player. Cleveland is exclusively an outside guy who can really stretch the field vertically. He ran a reported sub-4.4 at The Opening as a high school recruit. At 6-foot-2, Cleveland has some long strides when running. He can really eat up cushion on players who are playing against him in off coverage, often getting "even" with them and asserting advantage when getting vertical. His route tree consists of mostly 9-route, skinny posts and bubble screens, but for what he does, he does it pretty well. Cleveland is also a pretty decent blocker for a speed player. He knows how to square defenders up and generally has good hand placement to not get ripped or fanned away immediates. Cons: Where Cleveland is fast, he is not necessarily quick. His long speed and top speed are much more impressive than his short area quickness, as well as his first step acceleration. This causes his route tree to be very limited, as he is just a vertical outside player. This also hinders his ability to consistently separate from coverage. If he's got you in a straight line, he can get by you, but without much threat of directional variation, it's easy to plan for. At this point, Cleveland projects to just a vertical depth player in the NFL, but there is upside. Didn’t they say the same about DK Metcalf?
Ayjent Posted January 23, 2020 Posted January 23, 2020 10 hours ago, Buffalo Junction said: I have no doubt that he’s the best looking WR there. His route running is light years ahead of most college receivers and he has good hands. Go watch the LSU game where he pwns a cb repeatedly with technique. My viewpoint stems from him having advanced coaching (Dad’s an NFL WR turned NFL WR coach) coupled with him being 24 and having likely maxed out his physical potential as well. It’s in my other posts about Jefferson. He’s a solid bet to not only make a roster, but open the season as a WR 3.... high floor. I can’t recall him just flat out physically dominating top competition though. @Ayjent might be able to provide an example since he’s a ? fan. I’m just not sure if teams are going to run to the podium early for the kid unless he lights up the combine or fits need when there is an abundance of talent at the position. I can definitely see him fitting in with Gruden, McVay, or McCarthy. Jets will have the full book on the kid since his dads their WR coach. Out of curiosity. How did LaMical Perine look at practice? I’m curious about him since he has had moments where he just takes over a game, and other times there’s just no holes. Jefferson would be solid depth and could step in immediately to contribute. I think Robert Woods is a good comparison, but probably not as nasty of a blocker and doesn't maintain separation as well as Woods once he creates it. However, a dependable target right away that's likely an immediate upgrade over anyone below Beasley and Brown on the depth chart. Physical domination is not Jefferson's game, but he is a solid blocker. I can probably identify at least a couple of games where he made a DB look foolish trying to press him where they couldn't get good contact at the line, though. Press is how I would play him if I were a defensive coordinator, because he isn't necessarily going to burn you deep and he'll dance a little too much off the snap to get around the press. That's why he isn't a top notch prospect in my opinion, but if you have other weapons where defenses can't afford to play that way he will flourish and be a dependable option on the field. 1
Lurker Posted January 23, 2020 Author Posted January 23, 2020 57 minutes ago, the skycap said: Didn’t they say the same about DK Metcalf? Nope. They're completely different kinds of players. Cleveland's nowhere near the athlete DK is. Here's Metcalf's NFL.com profile: Overview Big, explosive talent with projectable upside to become a home-run threat as a WR1. Teams seek out pass-catchers with rare height, weight and speed dimensions and Metcalf has those for days. While he has the talent to become a full-field threat, Metcalf is still an unpolished gem who was the second-best receiver on his college team. Until his skill-set is more developed, he could begin his career as a hit-or-miss long-ball threat. However, once it clicks, defenses could struggle to find solutions for him. Strengths Uncommon, but highly coveted height, weight and speed traits Quick-twitch athlete with loose hips to carry him quickly in and out of his breaks Has blend of physical tools to work all three levels of the field Light feet to stutter and trigger an explosive release up the field Can wipe out coverage cushions with top-end speed that takes the top off Very risky to press without a back-end safety net Hauled in multiple one-handed circus catches in 2018 Consistently creates late-catch space with subtle hand usage Menacing separation potential once he learns to play to his speed Effective use of size to cinch-up and wall off defenders as perimeter blocker Should take big leap forward with expanded route tree and coaching to go with it Weaknesses Should rely on footwork and body positioning over arm-extension to clear the top of his route Rushes through pattern ingredients rather than developing their flavors as a route chef Gears it down a little when turning to locate the deep ball Fails to sell route fakes to manipulate his opponent Breaks and stems aren't as sharp as they could be Had separate season-ending injuries in 2016 (foot) and 2018 (neck) Suffered focus drops when working back to the ball Drop rate too high over last two seasons Needs better positioning of his big frame to block out defenders on comebacks
DCOrange Posted January 23, 2020 Posted January 23, 2020 1 hour ago, the skycap said: Didn’t they say the same about DK Metcalf? Sikkema, the guy that wrote Cleveland's scouting report, didn't write one on Metcalf, but their resident WR expert had this to say: https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/kelly--full-2019-nfl-draft-wide-receiver-rankings Pros: - Metcalf has all of the tools needed to be the premiere wide receiver in the NFL. From a size, strength and speed perspective, he is second to none in the class - Explosive vertical threat who dominates press coverage at the line of scrimmage - Uses broad frame, strength and subtle forearm shivers to create space at the catchpoint - Uses the threat of his vertical presence and dominant physicality to rarely be crowded at the breakpoint - Accelerates out of breaks, creating throwing windows with his explosiveness and massive frame Cons: - Has the habit of taking an extra step or two in order to throttle down before his breaks - Extra steps to throttle down negatively affects routes when defensive backs anticipate or are tightly covering his route Summary: As long as he remains healthy throughout his time in the NFL, I fully expect D.K. Metcalf to become a pro bowl wide receiver. His potential ceiling is untapped, but all of the necessary traits are within him. Position: X Player Comparison: Josh Gordon Round Grade: 1st (Top 10) Longer scouting report here: https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/d-k-metcalf/CEHVli9dxc
MAJBobby Posted January 23, 2020 Posted January 23, 2020 This TE is making himself a lot of money this week, he is having a very nice week against top competition Another good follow for those wanting to keep abreast of Senior Bowl
MAJBobby Posted January 23, 2020 Posted January 23, 2020 Another BIG WR with good body control question is can he seperate
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