papazoid Posted January 20, 2020 Posted January 20, 2020 you win some and you lose some. sure it hurts missing/passing on a franchise qb it happens alot....how many teams passed on rodgers, brees, brady......marino, montana...on and on tre white & a first rounder is a pretty good consolation prize. we have no choice but to move on.....doesn't mean those who bring up the past are evil
McBean Posted January 20, 2020 Posted January 20, 2020 2 hours ago, njbuff said: Oh please, Mahomes was every bit as flawed as any other QB coming out. This argument is dumb and it’s over. Uhh, seriously? Pat Mahomes was lighting up the Big 12. Josh Allen was struggling at times in the Mountain West. Facts are facts Chief.
Big Turk Posted January 20, 2020 Posted January 20, 2020 2 hours ago, steviedotboston said: There's a certain amount of luck that comes into play as well. Nobody can predict how a QB (or any plater) will develop over time. I don't think Belichick ever expected Brady to be as good as he is, despite what he might say in interviews. Allen has all the right tools, and with good coaching and a solid team to back him I think we can continue to see success. Former people in the personnel department have admitted Belichick decided to take Brady over Tim Rattay because he was taller. They were literally that much of a coin flip as to who they thought was better at the time. 1
NewEra Posted January 20, 2020 Posted January 20, 2020 (edited) Not sure why any relatively happy person would even read this thread. Be miserable if you like, I can’t indulge is such lunacy. What’s done is done. Get the f over it and move on Edited January 20, 2020 by NewEra 2 1
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted January 20, 2020 Posted January 20, 2020 The topic is being discussed on OBL today by the B-team fill-ins, and I couldn’t agree more that it’s been played out since at least this time last year. Trying to make a quantifiable argument that the Bills fumbled the draft 3 yrs ago when you are dealing with an inexact science to begin with, is Exhibit A for pointless exercise. Your data variables will never be the same draft over draft, as the players always turnover at a 100% clip, so what lessons could we possibly draw from one to the next? And the players They did take largely have hit. What I will say is that from a mindset standpoint, the Bills as an organization so rarely have drafted QB’s in the 1st round, and that I think has been an error during all the years we’ve tried to fix the position since Kelly retired. 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 20, 2020 Posted January 20, 2020 https://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/2020/01/as-patrick-mahomes-heads-to-super-bowl-bills-tre-white-sees-ungratefulness-from-some-bills-mafia-members.html Can someone translate for me "okay bet"? 1
Lieutenant Aldo Raine Posted January 20, 2020 Posted January 20, 2020 4 minutes ago, McBean said: Uhh, seriously? Pat Mahomes was lighting up the Big 12. Josh Allen was struggling at times in the Mountain West. Facts are facts Chief. So was every other Texas Tech QB! Where are they Chief?
Motorin' Posted January 20, 2020 Posted January 20, 2020 4 minutes ago, McBean said: Uhh, seriously? Pat Mahomes was lighting up the Big 12. Josh Allen was struggling at times in the Mountain West. Facts are facts Chief. Johnny Manziel and Geno Smith... Those were the QB's that many experts worried that Mahomes would follow. 1
Big Turk Posted January 20, 2020 Posted January 20, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: https://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/2020/01/as-patrick-mahomes-heads-to-super-bowl-bills-tre-white-sees-ungratefulness-from-some-bills-mafia-members.html Can someone translate for me "okay bet"? "Okay bet" means something like... "OK, I hear that smack you are talking and I got something for you". I grew up on the East Side of Buffalo and probably heard that expression 20 times a day if not more Edited January 20, 2020 by matter2003 1 2
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted January 20, 2020 Posted January 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Motorin' said: This is like blaming yourself for not winning the lottery... Nobody knew Mahomes was going to be this good. There were recent QB's with his level of production in college that didn't pan out, Johnny Manziel and Geno Smith come to mind. You can't blame an organization for not winning the lottery on a pick that was surrounded in uncertainty, but that isn't going to stop Sully. The guy is a creature who feeds off of negative emotions, looks for excuses to revel in them. I kind of feel sorry for the guy, I couldn't imagine having a career were the highlight of my craft was rooted in being a mean spirited prick. He’s a natural though 1
Big Turk Posted January 20, 2020 Posted January 20, 2020 3 minutes ago, NewEra said: Not sure why any relatively happy person would even visit this thread. Be miserable if you like, I can’t indulge is such lunacy. What’s done is done. Get the f over it and move on Hey...you would have done well if you were auditioning on LaLa Land... in one of the beginning scenes she uses a different word and then reads the script and sees it was lunacy and gets mad at herself
Mark Vader Posted January 20, 2020 Posted January 20, 2020 1 hour ago, teef said: i remember a number of people thinking mahomes would be an extremely risky pick. most wanted to stay away from him. I was one of those people. I didn't want a QB from that year at all. I even cursed the Peterman pick, even though it was in the 5th round. Patrick Mahomes has proven that he is a good QB in this league, and I give him credit for that. I did not expect to see him be as good as he is. You have to hand it to Andy Reid and his staff for helping him out. I have no regrets from the Bills trading down in that draft. The results have given us some very good players on the team. I am not worried about Josh Allen, and I think that Beane & McDermott are going to continue to improve the team. 1 1
BillsVet Posted January 20, 2020 Posted January 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Well, first off, Beane has had 2 drafts not 3. Second off, here's what he's done with it. Picks past about the 5th round have about a 10% chance to pan out. The top 3 rounds are where we should get value. So we have 4 shots on goal, Josh Allen (starting so not total bust - but verdict still out); Dawson Knox, Devin Singletary, and Cody Ford, all of whom started and showed flashes. Singletary in particular showed a lot of promise, and Knox has his flaws but also showed strong play. Ford may not be a premiere RT, but I think he showed he could play. Then in the FA market they hit on 2 out of 3 receivers (Brown and Beasley thumbs up, Kroft injured but probably thumbs down IMO). I agree "it's a problem from a team building strategy perspective" but I think the problem is more the degree of attention they've given it so far. So I can't agree that they haven't shown they can ID offensive talent. He did say offense and offensive talent, so .... McD is in charge and he's been there for 3 drafts, so therefore 2017 is not exempt from the discussion. After all, they used 2 2nds on offense that year. That's six "shots on goal" in 3 drafts from rounds 1-3. And even then, it wasn't until the third off-season when they became aggressive and signed skill types (Brown, Beasley, Kroft, drafted Singletary). It shouldn't take that long. Something is amiss on offense when you produce less than 20 points per in season 3 of a rebuild. Part of it, IMO, is personnel, part is coaching, but the bigger issue is organizational strategy. There's no offensive identity after 3 seasons.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted January 20, 2020 Posted January 20, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, McBean said: It stings because we were the team that traded with KC for them to select him. It stings because not only we passed on him, we passed on Watson too. It stings because we took a QB (over Mahomes and Watson) who had a ton of flaws in college that is showing again now. Make no mistake, it sucks. There’s no sugar coating it. I can’t belive I didn’t pick the correct winning lottery ticket numbers last week Now that I know them!! Coming out he was compared to Jay Cutler. Several prolific air raid offense QBs failed miserably in the NFL. Mahomes almost had college a career at Texas Tech as good as NFL legends, Graham Harrell and Kilff Kingsbery. McDermott had just started and most of the same staff that saw NFL QB potential in EJ Manuel, were the folks who produced the draft board for that year. Mahomes was a risky boom or bust pick. They made the most responsible decision they could at the time taking that trade back. Also, the picks generated by the trade back produced two guys who are playing next week. I’m sure If they stayed and picked at 10 it still wasn’t going to be PM. Bad timing for them. if anyone feels like enhancing their pain over this draft, please do look at the WRs drafted after Zay Jones. Edited January 20, 2020 by Over 29 years of fanhood 1 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 20, 2020 Posted January 20, 2020 So just to put it out there on the discussion: The big problem with the Bills and QB over the years has not been drafting the wrong QB. It's been the paralysis of analysis: failure to pull the trigger on a QB, perhaps for fear of drafting the wrong QB. The good news for Bills fans is that we have now drafted 2 QB in the 1st round within the last 5 years, after previously having drafted 2 QB in the first round in the entire history of the franchise. One didn't cut it, we moved on and drafted another. Within 5 years. Think about that little factoid. The Bills have only drafted 4 QB in the first round of the NFL draft over the entire history of the franchise. One was Jim Kelly. One is Allen. I love Allen, I hope he's our guy. A lot of that is up to him - how hot is the fire in his belly to be great? How badly does he want it? How hard will he work, physically and mentally? Some of it is up to us - will we give him the pieces around him he needs to succeed? But we can't get lost wailing and gnashing our teeth that we missed on drafting a guy 3 or 6 or 8 years ago. We made the moves we had to make, we took our shot, now we got to give the guy his shot and if he doesn't work out, try again. 2 1
Big Turk Posted January 20, 2020 Posted January 20, 2020 WOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! Breaking the law...breaking the law! Breaking the law...breaking the law! 1
BADOLBILZ Posted January 20, 2020 Posted January 20, 2020 2 minutes ago, Mark Vader said: I was one of those people. I didn't want a QB from that year at all. I even cursed the Peterman pick, even though it was in the 5th round. Patrick Mahomes has proven that he is a good QB in this league, and I give him credit for that. I did not expect to see him be as good as he is. You have to hand it to Andy Reid and his staff for helping him out. I have no regrets from the Bills trading down in that draft. The results have given us some very good players on the team. I am not worried about Josh Allen, and I think that Beane & McDermott are going to continue to improve the team. Good? Mahomes has proven that he is the most valued player in the NFL..........and it's not even close. He's probably the most universally valued player since Peyton Manning in the early 2000's and before that Dan Marino in the mid-80's. Every owner would trade anything they have to get Mahomes so let's not undersell it.........he's the type of player/personality who gets stadiums built and turns regional franchises into world recognized ones.........trading the chance to pick him when they were desperate for a franchise QB will likely rank up there with the worst decisions in the history of sport. The reality is though that Mahomes isn't going to go Jordan on the NFL...............the Bills can still win SB's in the span of Mahome's career despite the enormity of the error. 1
K-9 Posted January 20, 2020 Posted January 20, 2020 31 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: https://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/2020/01/as-patrick-mahomes-heads-to-super-bowl-bills-tre-white-sees-ungratefulness-from-some-bills-mafia-members.html Can someone translate for me "okay bet"? Roughly meaning, “Ok, it’s on, mother Fs! I’ll show you why you should be happy to have me!” 2 1 1
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted January 20, 2020 Posted January 20, 2020 4 minutes ago, K-9 said: Roughly meaning, “Ok, it’s on, mother Fs! I’ll show you why you should be happy to have me!” Opposing QB’s in 2020 should be seriously concerned about that possibility. He was lights out enough even before this perceived slight! 1
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