Bills Press and Fans...It’s Time to Move On With Pat Mahomes

[teef]

Just now, Phil The Thrill said:

Sure that’s true, but there were questions about Mahomes.  If he turned out to be a Blake Bortles than the team really would have been set back. 

I think that given the circumstances, McDermott made a high-percentage decision and waited until the GM situation was better to draft a QB.   It’s like the stock market, and he played it safe which I think is acceptable given all of the factors 
 

In doing so, he missed on an elite talent but I understand why it happened and am not perseverating on it. 

 

i have to imagine that was the thought process as well.  it happened, it can't be taken back, so why dwell?  i'm just more interested how this team can do better moving forward rather than coming on here an looking for every possible fault.  as i mentioned before, do the bears boards have threads like this every week?  they traded from 3 to 2 to take mitch if i remember correctly.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I see what you did, there.  Well-played, sir.  Well-played.

 

I totally missed this. ?

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

1 hour ago, teef said:

it's been time to move on for a while.  it would be way more fun to have him on this team, but it's not longer an option, so move on.  i wonder if chicago fans have this much trouble with it.  

As a Chicago expat with family and friends there, I can tell you definitively that they do, far more than bills fans. It’s the nature of the football fan beast. Telling people to get the fug over it constantly is equally annoying. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

I'm Joe in Winslow, and I approve this message.

 

It was time to move on TWO FREAKING YEARS AGO.

 

[Phil The Thrill]

Just now, teef said:

i have to imagine that was the thought process as well.  it happened, it can't be taken back, so why dwell?  i'm just more interested how this team can do better moving forward rather than coming on here an looking for every possible fault.  as i mentioned before, do the bears boards have threads like this every week?  they traded from 3 to 2 to take mitch if i remember correctly.  

I’m with you... I just wish more fans felt this way.

 

And yes, from what I’ve heard Bears fans were pretty miserable after watching this season play out

[BillsVet]

30 minutes ago, Peter said:

Yes.  We all knew who was running that draft and that Whaley was dead man walking. McDermott clearly wanted the Bills to hire "his" GM, which is what happened.

 

The issue isn't so much McD didn't take Mahomes (or Watson).  It's that his (and Beane's) track record drafting offensive players is not really good.  And in a league that demands offense, this is a major problem. 

 

Given that history, what evidence is there (as @Coach Tuesday said in another thread) that McD or Beane have the personnel acumen to identify offensive talent?  Because after 3 drafts their decisions on offense are not promising. 

 

We're 3 years into this rebuild and still talking about surrounding a QB with more weapons.  That's a problem from a team building strategy perspective. 

 

 

Edited January 20, 2020 by BillsVet

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

57 minutes ago, Chemical said:

I have no problem moving on. The problem comes from fans that won’t admit Mahomes is great. Why can’t they admit that? Admit it was a mistake to draft Nathan Peterman then a project QB the following year instead of Mahomes and then move on. 

This. Somehow many fans seem to believe that running down other quarterbacks somehow makes our guy exponentially better. 

[Phil The Thrill]

Just now, AlCowlingsTaxiService said:

As a Chicago expat with family and friends there, I can tell you definitively that they do, far more than bills fans. It’s the nature of the football fan beast. Telling people to get the fug over it constantly is equally annoying. 

At some point you just need to quit bitching and stop dwelling on the past. Teams miss on players every year.  It sucks when it happens but how long are you going to cry about it?  Bills fans, for reason, hold onto the past more than most teams.

[Lurker]

Tell me who this reminds you of:

 

WEAKNESSES

 Can be inconsistent in his approach. Needs to play inside the offense and show more discipline. Too eager to go big game hunting. Ravenous appetite for the explosive play can also bring unwanted trouble. Willingness to default to playground style appears to limit his ability to get into a consistent rhythm. Needs to improve anticipatory reads and learn to take what the defense gives him. Decision making can go from good to bad in a moment's notice. Operates from a narrow base and allows his upper body and arm to race ahead of his feet. Has a dip and wind-up in his standard release. Explosive delivery and follow-through causes some throws to sail. Needs better touch on intermediate and deep balls. Carries ball a little low in the pocket. Impatient. Will leave pocket prematurely rather than standing in and winning in rhythm. Better as a scrambler than pure runner. Looked a little less mobile in the open field this season.

DRAFT PROJECTION

 Round 1-2

SOURCES TELL US

 "He's got a great arm, big balls and he's mobile. He is going to drive his head coach crazy for the first couple of years and there is no getting around that. If it clicks for him and he's coachable, I think he could become a special quarterback." - NFC executive

 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profiles/patrick-mahomes?id=2558125

 

Edited January 20, 2020 by Lurker

[PromoTheRobot]

I'm more pissed we didn't trade up for Mitch Trubisky.

[buffalonian]

Man, if only we hadn’t traded away our 2005 first round pick to move up to get JP Losman in 2004, we could’ve drafted Aaron Rodgers. Then we would never have been in a position to move back in the 2017 draft and thus never been subjected to this interminable conversation about not taking Mahomes.  Damn you, Tom Donahoe!!!

[artmalibu]

I think we should be talking about passing on Brady (6 times), Wilson, Prescott, Breeze etc. 

 

The bears took Mitch instead of Pat, and 3 other teams did not have a good QB situation ahead of the Bills that year.  

 

When looking back on drafts it should be more about who you picked rather than who you didnt....

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, buffalonian said:

Man, if only we hadn’t traded away our 2005 first round pick to move up to get JP Losman in 2004, we could’ve drafted Aaron Rodgers. Then we would never have been in a position to move back in the 2017 draft and thus never been subjected to this interminable conversation about not taking Mahomes.  Damn you, Tom Donahoe!!!

Exactly. Or if we hadn't taken Graham instead of Russell Wilson.

 

On and on and on and on and on. It's almost like people don't understand that this kind of ***** happens to EVERY single team every single season.

 

[teef]

2 minutes ago, AlCowlingsTaxiService said:

As a Chicago expat with family and friends there, I can tell you definitively that they do, far more than bills fans. It’s the nature of the football fan beast. Telling people to get the fug over it constantly is equally annoying. 

they must really be upset, but at some point what can you do.  i'm just someone who doesn't want to spend energy on what could have been.

[Phil The Thrill]

1 minute ago, BillsVet said:

 

The issue isn't so much McD didn't take Mahomes (or Watson).  It's that his (and Beane's) track record drafting offensive players is not really good.  And in a league that demands offense, this is a major problem. 

 

Given that history, what evidence is there (as @Coach Tuesday said in another thread) that McD or Beane have the personnel acumen to identify offensive talent?  Because after 3 drafts their decisions on offense are not promising. 

 

We're 3 years into this rebuild and still talking about surrounding a QB with more weapons.  That's a problem from a team building strategy perspective. 

 

 

Beane and McDermott have had 2 drafts which has yielded Josh Allen, Cody Ford, Devin Singletary, and Dawson know.  Maybe you can say the jury the still out, but I don’t know how you can say these players “are not promising.”  Qualify your response, because I think the output  and potential has been promising  

4 minutes ago, AlCowlingsTaxiService said:

This. Somehow many fans seem to believe that running down other quarterbacks somehow makes our guy exponentially better. 

True...some people are saying they’d rather have Tre White and Josh Allen, which is equally as silly as creating about the past.  In both cases, fans need to move one

[dma0034]

I wanted Watson with the pick. Mahomes is clearly a level higher but that trade got the Bills their best player too (White).

[dave mcbride]

43 minutes ago, Livinginthepast said:

I just like to know what intel the Chiefs had that we didn't. They were willing to go after him and it was a masterstroke landing him. But what about the other teams ahead of us? Chicago took Trubisky ahead of Mahomes. A whole bunch of other teams with mediocre to bad Qbs passed over Mahomes. I think the Bills did what most NFL teams do on a regular basis, completely overlook diamonds in the rough.  Whalley got fired 2 days after the draft so was the choice to trade the pick entirely on McD? If so he is the one who is clueless but the Pegulas should have hired a new GM much earlier with a vision of what was needed in the draft. The entire time period after immediately after Rex's firing seems to have been a total debacle. 

There were two coaches who were all in on Mahomes: Andy Reid and Sean Payton. That tells you all you need to know. (KC traded with us to get ahead of NO, who drafted next).

Edited January 20, 2020 by dave mcbride

[KD in CA]

29 minutes ago, Sandhill Mike said:

 

Don't get me wrong... I'm not here saying Boo Bills for not drafting the kid.  I was not clamoring for the team to take Mahomes back then and I'm definitely not saying the Bills should have known better.

 

To some fans, the context of the trades and where the teams were then doesn't matter... the Chiefs have a great QB and we have a project QB.  It's a jealousy thing, pure and simple.  I think that the only cure for that jealousy is winning and seeing consistently good/great QB play in Buffalo.

 

Yup.

 

People blaming McD are especially silly takes.   The Bills were just starting the rebuild and had no GM and no intention of drafting a QB in 2017.  Love how people are now acting like they passed on John Elway or Andrew Luck because Mahomes has turned out to be superb.

[Augie]

Technically, we are moving on WITHOUT Mahomes, and I’m fine with that. I’m not still hung up with my high school girlfriend, either. It’s over, way past time to move on.....without. 

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

19 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

So I guess I'm a maverick, but here's what I see.  I see QB talent blooming or not, in direct proportion to the quality of the team situation the player came into.  That's not to say that the QBs aren't great players who would eventually succeed anywhere, but they wouldn't have the degree and immediacy of success with a lower quality situation.

 

1) Mahomes was drafted into a situation that could not have been better.  He was drafted onto a team that had talent, including a capable starting QB.  They had averaged >10 wins per season the previous 5 years (10,12,11,9,11 wins) and been to the playoffs 4 of the previous 5 seasons before he started.  They had all kinds of offensive talent, including a star RB, star WR, and star TE.  They had an established offensive system and an experienced OL.

 

Mahomes got a chance to sit and learn in that situation for a full year.  By the time he started, he knew the terminology, he knew the system, he knew how to prepare, he'd had a year to work out kinks in his technique, and he got to sit in the driver's seat of a fully functional NFL offense and turn the key.

 

Then he made that car take off and FLY.  So that's to his credit, and shows that he's a special talent.  I think that he would show he's a great QB eventually anywhere, but to think that he would have been the same degree of game-changing special immediately without any of the other pieces he had, is strange.

 

2) Watson was also drafted into a very good situation.  The offensive-minded HC had been laying down 9-7 records with scraps and shoestrings at QB (Fitz, Mallet, Hoyer, Osweiler).  He had an all-world WR in Hopkins, a solid vet RB in Miller, and a stout D across from him.  When their draft choices on OL didn't pan out they took effective action to shore things up with trades and draft picks.  Ditto with injury to Miller, shored up RB immediately with Hyde.  Again, I think he would show he's a great QB eventually anywhere, but not have the same degree of game-changing special immediately without the coaching and team that is around him.

 

3) Lamar Jackson was drafted into a pretty good situation.  Again, an established HC with a winning tradition, a strong defense, an offense mired in mediocrity with a SB-winning QB who no longer had it.  They had pieces though - OL, RB, TE - and because they got him low, were able to draft more pieces at the same time (2 TE, LT) and the following year (WR) or acquire them (RB).  They had the perfect OC for a run-threat QB on staff and immediately committed to retooling the offense to suit Jackson perfectly.

 

I don't think it's a shock that they're the 3 most successful QB of recent draft classes and 2 of 3 became league MVPs (is Jackson officially the league MVP yet?).

 

At the other end of the spectrum, we have QBs like Baker Mayfield and Sam Darnold who were drafted high into dysfunctional organizations with questionable coaching and trash and turmoil around them.  They've shown flashes and had some success, but they've also struggled.  Josh Rosen, in an even worse situation, has outright floundered.

 

In the middle we have QB like Mitch Trubisky and Josh Allen who were drafted into situations that are mixed bags - Allen into the second year of a new HC and 1st year of a new GM who gutted the roster of a team mired in perpetual mediocrity, including OL and WR.  Allen got thrown into the fire at halftime of the first game, after not taking reps with the starters all preseason.  Offensively, he could hardly have had a worse situation except for 1) apparently, an OC who has developed a consistent mentoring relationship with him 2) his own personality, which appears to draw guys to him and inspire them to buy in and play hard (and those who didn't, were shipped out).  We don't know what he is yet, and he needs to take a step,  but he doesn't have everything he needs around him yet either.

 

But until we can somehow do the controlled experiment where we drop Mahomes into the 2018 Bills or Allen into the 2017 Chiefs, there are just so many facets different that it's hard to say what we'd see.  And we can't do that experiment.

 

I'm just saying that for coaching and team talent, I'd rate KC > Baltimore > Houston > Chicago >Buffalo > Cleveland, NYJ and that's pretty well how the QB look at present.

 

Peace out.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Excellent post! This is true in everything. Skill is not 100% correlated with success. I don't understand why so many people don't understand this. Success=Talent+Opportunity(Situation)+Randomness( Sheet Happens). I mean you can do everything right and not have it work out.

 

Does anybody think a QB on the '76 Bucs ( or many other squads) had much of a chance of succeeding? Think Lamar Jackson, Pat Mahomes on that team.