Bills Press and Fans...It’s Time to Move On With Pat Mahomes

[Phil The Thrill]

Just now, Freddie's Dead said:

The biggest problem with the trade was that we didn't get enough picks.  We needed another 1st or 2nd rounder to make the trade worthwhile.

At the time, most fans were good with the compensation.  It’s easy to look back now and say ww should have gotten more

[teef]

Just now, PromoTheRobot said:

It's Jerry Sullivan's holy grail. He needs a flaw in McBeane's armor to pick at. Without a negative story the guy is lost. You should have heard his radio show when the Bills were 3-0. He sounded like he lost the will to live.

the guy lied about the type of breakfast obd put out for the media.  that's who he is apparently.

[Freddie's Dead]

Just now, Phil The Thrill said:

At the time, most fans were good with the compensation.  It’s easy to look back now and say ww should have gotten more

 

I said it at the time.

[Phil The Thrill]

1 minute ago, Sandhill Mike said:

 

Don't get me wrong... I'm not here saying Boo Bills for not drafting the kid.  I was not clamoring for the team to take Mahomes back then and I'm definitely not saying the Bills should have known better.

 

To some fans, the context of the trades and where the teams were then doesn't matter... the Chiefs have a great QB and we have a project QB.  It's a jealousy thing, pure and simple.  I think that the only cure for that jealousy is winning and seeing consistently good/great QB play in Buffalo.

I agree...sorry for lumping you in with that type of  fan

Just now, Freddie's Dead said:

 

I said it at the time.

Ok you knew better but the majority of fans didn’t feel that way.

[steviedotboston]

There's a certain amount of luck that comes into play as well. Nobody can predict how a QB (or any plater) will develop over time. I don't think Belichick ever expected Brady to be as good as he is, despite what he might say in interviews.

 

Allen has all the right tools, and with good coaching and a solid team to back him I think we can continue to see success. 

[Phil The Thrill]

2 minutes ago, teef said:

i remember a number of people thinking mahomes would be an extremely risky pick.  most wanted to stay away from him.

So many people forget this.  He was high risk/high reward, but KC had the infrastructure to make it work.  Many teams like Buffalo did not

[Dr. Who]

Maybe that fella (Jeffismagic) who got banned for crusading to draft Mahomes is owed an apology. For the record (and if you are better at searching really old threads there is archival evidence) I also argued strongly to draft Mahomes as well thinking Watson would be good despite naysayers who said he had a noodle arm and could not succeed. I was also one of the few who was happy on draft day when Allen was selected. His ceiling remains very high and I think it's better than a coin flip Allen substantially reaches his potential, especially if Beane properly adds to the playmaking and oline talent this offseason. Further, as many have said, it's likely Mahomes would not be the Mahomes who is now routinely talked about as a generational qb had he been drafted by the Bills. (No doubt, he would still be good.) He landed in an exceptional situation where he could be the understudy of a solid qb for a year surrounded by superior talent on offense and coached by one of the best offensive coaches in football. In the end, none of this matters if Allen becomes a franchise qb and the overall talent of the team includes a top defense to go along with a productive offense. No reason we can't get there, the pessimism of continuing Allen skeptics notwithstanding.

[bmur66]

The Bills had no GM in place at the time so I can understand why they didn't draft Mahomes. But...…. the Bills should have drafted Russell Wilson in the 4th round. Instead they drafted TJ freakin Graham!!!!!!!!!!  ?

Edited January 20, 2020 by bmur66

[Dr. Who]

4 minutes ago, Steve O said:

 

First, let me help you both get over this one. When the USFL was folding  it was widely rumored that Kelly would end up in Oakland. When asked about that possibility, Al Davis responded there was no way it would happen, Ralph still hadn't forgiven him for Darryl Lamonica. So, Kelly may never have ended up a Bill had it not been for this trade.

2 thoughts on the original topic

1) At least we've finally moved on from passing on Brady 5 times

2) 9 other teams passed on Mahomes as well. How do you think they feel in Chicago, trading up to draft Trubisky?

 

I was just joking about Lamonica, but thanks for the narrative on Kelly.

[H2o]

2 minutes ago, bmur66 said:

The Bills had no GM in place at the time so I can understand why they didn't draft Mahomes. But...…. the Bills should have drafted Russell Wilson in the 4th round. Instead they drafted TJ freakin Graham!!!!!!!!!!  ?

3rd Round 

[Teddy KGB]

Let’s forgive Mcclappy for all his failures ???

[teef]

2 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said:

So many people forget this.  He was high risk/high reward, but KC had the infrastructure to make it work.  Many teams like Buffalo did not

i think he's certainly better off in kc than buffalo, but buffalo would have had a better qb situation had he been drafted.  that being said, i'm a josh fan and want/expect him to be the guy.  

[Sandhill Mike]

2 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said:

I agree...sorry for lumping you in with that type of  fan

Ok you knew better but the majority of fans didn’t feel that way.

 

Phil, that's more than cool... I wasn't offended and I appreciate you guys that try to shut down the Mahomes regret that surfaces every time KC does something good.

[The Frankish Reich]

Correct. Enough with the Mahomes thing. I am calling for the next two weeks to be dominated by “We should have traded for Jimmy G” threads. 
EDIT: or could I sell folks on “we should have tanked in 2018 so Deebo Samuel would have been on the board when we picked Cody Ford? Or maybe “we should have claimed Raheem Mostert off waivers the half dozen times he was available? It seems there’s a lot of content to be generated there ...

Edited January 20, 2020 by The Frankish Reich

[Phil The Thrill]

1 minute ago, Sandhill Mike said:

 

Phil, that's more than cool... I wasn't offended and I appreciate you guys that try to shut down the Mahomes regret that surfaces every time KC does something good.

I get that fans are upset watching a great QB like Mahomes but I just wanted add some context to a situation that wasn’t as obvious as some make it sound to be 

[K-9]

Are the fans of the nine other teams that could have had Mahomes as upset as some Bills fans? Is the media that covers those teams as critical of those front offices as well? 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

39 minutes ago, njbuff said:

Oh please, Mahomes was every bit as flawed as any other QB coming out.

This argument is dumb and it’s over.

 

So I guess I'm a maverick, but here's what I see.  I see QB talent blooming or not, in direct proportion to the quality of the team situation the player came into.  That's not to say that the QBs aren't great players who would eventually succeed anywhere, but they wouldn't have the degree and immediacy of success with a lower quality situation.

 

1) Mahomes was drafted into a situation that could not have been better.  He was drafted onto a team that had talent, including a capable starting QB.  They had averaged >10 wins per season the previous 5 years (10,12,11,9,11 wins) and been to the playoffs 4 of the previous 5 seasons before he started.  They had all kinds of offensive talent, including a star RB, star WR, and star TE.  They had an established offensive system and an experienced OL.

 

Mahomes got a chance to sit and learn in that situation for a full year.  By the time he started, he knew the terminology, he knew the system, he knew how to prepare, he'd had a year to work out kinks in his technique, and he got to sit in the driver's seat of a fully functional NFL offense and turn the key.

 

Then he made that car take off and FLY.  So that's to his credit, and shows that he's a special talent.  I think that he would show he's a great QB eventually anywhere, but to think that he would have been the same degree of game-changing special immediately without any of the other pieces he had, is strange.

 

2) Watson was also drafted into a very good situation.  The offensive-minded HC had been laying down 9-7 records with scraps and shoestrings at QB (Fitz, Mallet, Hoyer, Osweiler).  He had an all-world WR in Hopkins, a solid vet RB in Miller, and a stout D across from him.  When their draft choices on OL didn't pan out they took effective action to shore things up with trades and draft picks.  Ditto with injury to Miller, shored up RB immediately with Hyde.  Again, I think he would show he's a great QB eventually anywhere, but not have the same degree of game-changing special immediately without the coaching and team that is around him.

 

3) Lamar Jackson was drafted into a pretty good situation.  Again, an established HC with a winning tradition, a strong defense, an offense mired in mediocrity with a SB-winning QB who no longer had it.  They had pieces though - OL, RB, TE - and because they got him low, were able to draft more pieces at the same time (2 TE, LT) and the following year (WR) or acquire them (RB).  They had the perfect OC for a run-threat QB on staff and immediately committed to retooling the offense to suit Jackson perfectly.

 

I don't think it's a shock that they're the 3 most successful QB of recent draft classes and 2 of 3 became league MVPs (is Jackson officially the league MVP yet?).

 

At the other end of the spectrum, we have QBs like Baker Mayfield and Sam Darnold who were drafted high into dysfunctional organizations with questionable coaching and trash and turmoil around them.  They've shown flashes and had some success, but they've also struggled.  Josh Rosen, in an even worse situation, has outright floundered.

 

In the middle we have QB like Mitch Trubisky and Josh Allen who were drafted into situations that are mixed bags - Allen into the second year of a new HC and 1st year of a new GM who gutted the roster of a team mired in perpetual mediocrity, including OL and WR.  Allen got thrown into the fire at halftime of the first game, after not taking reps with the starters all preseason.  Offensively, he could hardly have had a worse situation except for 1) apparently, an OC who has developed a consistent mentoring relationship with him 2) his own personality, which appears to draw guys to him and inspire them to buy in and play hard (and those who didn't, were shipped out).  We don't know what he is yet, and he needs to take a step,  but he doesn't have everything he needs around him yet either.

 

But until we can somehow do the controlled experiment where we drop Mahomes into the 2018 Bills or Allen into the 2017 Chiefs, there are just so many facets different that it's hard to say what we'd see.  And we can't do that experiment.

 

I'm just saying that for coaching and team talent, I'd rate KC > Baltimore > Houston > Chicago >Buffalo > Cleveland, NYJ and that's pretty well how the QB look at present.

 

Peace out.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[oldmanfan]

Hindsight is 20/20.  There were plenty of concerns about Mahomes’ ability to adapt to the NFL.  Credit to him for becoming as great as he is now.

[Gugny]

45 minutes ago, teef said:

i'm sure watching him play makes it even harder.  

 

I see what you did, there.  Well-played, sir.  Well-played.

[Phil The Thrill]

4 minutes ago, teef said:

i think he's certainly better off in kc than buffalo, but buffalo would have had a better qb situation had he been drafted.  that being said, i'm a josh fan and want/expect him to be the guy.  

Sure that’s true, but there were questions about Mahomes.  If he turned out to be a Blake Bortles than the team really would have been set back. 

I think that given the circumstances, McDermott made a high-percentage decision and waited until the GM situation was better to draft a QB.   It’s like the stock market, and he played it safe which I think is acceptable given all of the factors 
 

In doing so, he missed on an elite talent but I understand why it happened and am not perseverating on it. 

 

5 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Are the fans of the nine other teams that could have had Mahomes as upset as some Bills fans? Is the media that covers those teams as critical of those front offices as well? 

Yeah I think fans in Chicago are having this same conversation.  But it’s worse for them since they did draft a QB.

 

San Fran passed on him but since they are going to the Super Bowl, fans are good with a QB who passes 8 times