eball Posted January 16, 2020 Posted January 16, 2020 7 minutes ago, Sunshower said: Glad to have him back. I expect our offense to explode under Daboll year 3. Barring a catastrophic injury to Josh Allen I think we go deep in the playoffs next year. I find it awesome that Allen has the same teacher 3 years in a row. We have talent on the offensive side of the ball but we’re still really rough around the edges. OL needs to be tweaked, need to drastically rehaul the skill positions, but the meat and potatoes is there. Need to add 1-2 playmakers at the WR position and find a suitable complement to Singletary in the backfield. Do those things and your "explosion" prediction may come true. 1
Dopey Posted January 16, 2020 Posted January 16, 2020 44 minutes ago, soflabillsfan1 said: Was never a big Daboll fan because of some of the personnel groupings he uses and some of his situational calls but when you dissect this offense, we're leaving a lot of plays on the field that should be positive plays. Mainly because of Josh missing them and some poor execution. Agreed. A young Josh, plenty of drops and, as was amplified in the playoffs, guys(Knox) missing key blocks. We left quite a few plays on the field. We should be a lot more competent on offense due to having stability. We had to work with a whole new o-line, a whole new group of TE's, a whole new group of WR's and a whole new group of RB's. Josh and Dion were the only returning starters on offense.
ghostwriter Posted January 16, 2020 Posted January 16, 2020 Just now, eball said: Need to add 1-2 playmakers at the WR position and find a suitable complement to Singletary in the backfield. Do those things and your "explosion" prediction may come true. Need to rework the OL too, I might add. Ford into LG and a true RT gives us an above average OL. I think Allen, Singletary and Knox will see a jump in production too. Typically year 3 for QBs is a good indicator in what you can expect going forward. Allen did good spreading the ball around, if he can connect on the deep ball more often, look out.
Dr. K Posted January 16, 2020 Posted January 16, 2020 9 minutes ago, Chaos said: I am not sure the question that needs to be asked is "will someone else be better"? The first question that needs to be asked is "Will Daboll be good enough to lead make the offense championship caliber?" If the answer is yes, then the questions stop there. If the answer is no, then the next question is "Is my goal really too win the championship?". If the answer to that question is yes, then the next question Among the hundreds of college head coaches, NFL position coaches and ex-NFL head coaches and OC, is there someone who MIGHT be good enough to build a championship offense. If the answer to tha t question is yes, then hire that person. If the answer to that question is no, then you have have to find a new goal other than winning the championship. In the words of the fictional but brilliant Reese Bobby "If you ain't first, you're last." sidenote, Mr. Bobby later recanted saying he must have been high when he made the initial statement. I've bolded the crucial question. Notice that you use "might be good enough" with these hypothetical alternatives to Daboll, and use "will Daboll be good enough" when challenging Daboll's abilities. This is the essence of "the grass is always greener." If you ask, "might Daboll be good enough to build a championship offense" then you're much more likely to stick with him. I don't know for a fact that things will go better next year with him instead of somebody's flavor-of-the-month alternative. I just point out that the alternative always looks great because it's a hypothetical. 2
Dopey Posted January 16, 2020 Posted January 16, 2020 2 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said: If we can't blame Daboll, then who is to blame? I am so sick of people happy with an Offense that struggles to put teams away, put up 20 points & incapable of passing for 300 yards. The defense was 24th in the league, which I guess is a huge jump from 29-31 the prior two years, but to be satisfied, stupifies me. No I didn't expect a jump like the LA Rams made in 2017, but yes year 2 of Josh I wanted to see a minimum of 5 games that the offense clicked for 4 quarters. Tired of this 9 new players excuse & how some here are so enamored with the Process that they push everything out another year....... Look at John DeFilippo (and no I had no idea who he was either) & how he has got 3 OC jobs & fired after 1 year in each one..... These guys all seem to rebound and some team thinks they are the answer. If someone wants Daboll, good for them & move on..... To me if they are so high on Daboll, then they are down on Allen & think he's the reason the offense ranked as high as 24th, which says little about Allen......? We can blame the players who dropped a ton of passes and missed a ton of blocks, along with an OC who was learning how to use a whole new group of offensive players. Nine new players is not an excuse, it's a reason. This is a year and a half for Josh playing under Daboll. I don't think anyone is satisfied, but we did see Josh progress. I think the people that want him back saw the progression of the offense and look forward to more. Next year, Daboll won't have the excuse of all new personnel. I don't think he'll need the excuse though. Our offense will be a lot better and you'll get your wish, Daboll will be a HC after next season.
MAJBobby Posted January 16, 2020 Posted January 16, 2020 At least ONE Giant Fan wanted him as HC Linking to the entire article cosmicj : 4:39 am : link Daboll was my preference for Giants HC, fwiw.Daboll Vacchiano - ( New Window )
Chaos Posted January 16, 2020 Posted January 16, 2020 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Dr. K said: I've bolded the crucial question. Notice that you use "might be good enough" with these hypothetical alternatives to Daboll, and use "will Daboll be good enough" when challenging Daboll's abilities. This is the essence of "the grass is always greener." If you ask, "might Daboll be good enough to build a championship offense" then you're much more likely to stick with him. I don't know for a fact that things will go better next year with him instead of somebody's flavor-of-the-month alternative. I just point out that the alternative always looks great because it's a hypothetical. You missed the point. If the judgment is that Daboll will not be good enough to win the Championship, and winning the championship is your goal, then you have nothing to lose by changing him. If you have not reached a judgment on Daboll after two full seasons, then you might have the wrong people making this decision. Having said that, if Daboll is still in the "might" category, meaning he is essentially still a prospect, then you need to measure him (including the benefits of continuity) against the entire universe of prospects, and make a decision based on that. Edited January 16, 2020 by Chaos
Dr. K Posted January 16, 2020 Posted January 16, 2020 4 minutes ago, Chaos said: You missed the point. If the judgment is that Daboll will not be good enough to win the Championship, and winning the championship is your goal, then you have nothing to lose by changing him. If you have not reached a judgment on Daboll after two full seasons, then you might have the wrong people making this decision. Having said that, if Daboll is still in the "might" category, meaning he is essentially still a prospect, then you need to measure him (including the benefits of continuity) against the entire universe of prospects, and make a decision based on that. "the entire universe of prospects"? That's laughable. Nobody will measure up against the entire universe of prospects. You DON'T KNOW how any of those other coaches in that entire universe will work out. It's a hypothetical. You are acting as if this is physics. I have a degree in physics. Making a judgment like this is not science. You're still making a grass is always greener" argument.
Chaos Posted January 16, 2020 Posted January 16, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Dr. K said: "the entire universe of prospects"? That's laughable. Nobody will measure up against the entire universe of prospects. You DON'T KNOW how any of those other coaches in that entire universe will work out. It's a hypothetical. You are acting as if this is physics. I have a degree in physics. Making a judgment like this is not science. You're still making a grass is always greener" argument. You might best stick to physics. Nothing I have said is a grass is greener argument. Which of the following points I made is a grass is greener argument? 1. If you are confident Daboll can win a championship. You stay with Daboll. End of discussion. 2. If you are confident Daboll can't win a championship, you have nothing to lose by changing him, unless you have a different goal than winning the championship. 3. If you are not sure about Daboll after two years, the professional GMs and Head Coaches need to evaluate whether or Daboll or someone else gives the team a greater chance to win the championship. Edited January 16, 2020 by Chaos
GunnerBill Posted January 16, 2020 Posted January 16, 2020 4 minutes ago, Chaos said: You might best stick to physics. Nothing I have said is a grass is greener argument. Which of the following points I made is a grass is greener argument? 1. If you are confident Daboll can win a championship. You stay with Daboll. End of discussion. 2. If you are confident Daboll can't win a championship, you have nothing to lose by changing him, unless you have a different goal than winning the championship. 3. If you are not sure about Daboll after two years, the professional GMs and Head Coaches need to evaluate whether or Daboll or someone else gives the team a greater chance to win the championship. I also think it depends what the Bills number 1 goal is at this point. I believe it is actually to develop Josh Allen into a bona fide Franchise QB. Do that and the Championships will follow. If the question is then "Does retaining Daboll give Josh Allen the best chance of remaining on that trajectory?" then I think yes is the answer. 4
Happy Posted January 16, 2020 Posted January 16, 2020 10 hours ago, kbarrettb said: Seems the Bills like him more than some message board poster who has no idea what’s actually happening behind the scenes. Stick to being a keyboard coordinator and let the professionals do their jobs. And his play calling was great this year, right? The offense scored more than enough points, right? Some people settle for garbage, while others want more. 3 hours ago, fansince88 said: I have to wonder if he showed no interest so they helped him by saying no? A team on the rise has to be more interest to him then a team on the bottom. Yeah, that's a good thought. I recall seeing posts mentioning the position coach/coordinator would ask his current team to block the requests so it doesn't reflect poorly on him for future positions. 2
dje85 Posted January 16, 2020 Posted January 16, 2020 I want continuity this year personally. If Daboll and the offense don't improve this upcoming season with hopefully an even more improved oline and a new shiny #1 wr and a second stud rb to team with motor then I say can his arse. But I think continuity will only help improve the offense as a whole.
MILFHUNTER#518 Posted January 16, 2020 Posted January 16, 2020 10 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: Judge Judy is hell bent on bringing in as many ex-Pats as he can. Poached multiple from Flores staff already Maybe he is bringing the Spygate Program with him, like McDaniels tried to do when he went to Denver? 1 1
RyanC883 Posted January 16, 2020 Posted January 16, 2020 10 hours ago, SCBills said: At some point, even the haters of Daboll might start to wonder why teams are interested in him?... good point, but the teams interested are the well-run Browns and Giants. 2
Dr. K Posted January 16, 2020 Posted January 16, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Chaos said: You might best stick to physics. Nothing I have said is a grass is greener argument. Which of the following points I made is a grass is greener argument? 1. If you are confident Daboll can win a championship. You stay with Daboll. End of discussion. 2. If you are confident Daboll can't win a championship, you have nothing to lose by changing him, unless you have a different goal than winning the championship. 3. If you are not sure about Daboll after two years, the professional GMs and Head Coaches need to evaluate whether or Daboll or someone else gives the team a greater chance to win the championship. All I am saying is that in your option 3 here, it is a judgment call, and too many fans act as if it's a simple matter. Your "universe of prospects" formulation is ludicrous. If you compare ANY coach against the "universe of prospects" then you will fire him and hire somebody else. There are many factors in evaluating a coach. It's not as simple as you present it here. Unless a coach is completely incompetent, it's a judgment call. I know a lot of Bills fans believe that Daboll is hopelessly incompetent, but they are wrong. Edited January 16, 2020 by Dr. K
Happy Posted January 16, 2020 Posted January 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Dopey said: I don't know...Maybe the smarter people are not firing him? If you don't fire him, at least bring in someone else to call plays and make the offensive game plans. If this doesn't happen, are there smarter people making these decisions?
RyanC883 Posted January 16, 2020 Posted January 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, dje85 said: I want continuity this year personally. If Daboll and the offense don't improve this upcoming season with hopefully an even more improved oline and a new shiny #1 wr and a second stud rb to team with motor then I say can his arse. But I think continuity will only help improve the offense as a whole. if there is not DRASTIC improvement this year (top 15), he cannot return the next year. 1
TheFunPolice Posted January 16, 2020 Posted January 16, 2020 The Bills have a good thing going on, and the best part is that it is very unlikely that Frazier or Daboll become head coaches. I see Daboll being like Greg Roman. Even with what Roman has done with both Kap and Lamar in designing unique offenses he isn't seen as a serious HC candidate. There is nothing wrong with getting paid millions to be a successful coordinator on a winning team and gets pats on the back all the time and (hopefully) win titles together.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 16, 2020 Posted January 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Sunshower said: Glad to have him back. I expect our offense to explode under Daboll year 3. Barring a catastrophic injury to Josh Allen I think we go deep in the playoffs next year. I find it awesome that Allen has the same teacher 3 years in a row. We have talent on the offensive side of the ball but we’re still really rough around the edges. OL needs to be tweaked, need to drastically rehaul the skill positions, but the meat and potatoes is there. I'm having trouble parsing this. If we need to "drastically rehaul" the skill positions and tweak the OL, what does "meat and potatoes is there" mean to you? I hope our offense will improve under Daboll next year.
ProcessAccepted Posted January 16, 2020 Posted January 16, 2020 10 hours ago, SCBills said: At some point, even the haters of Daboll might start to wonder why teams are interested in him?... what gets me is that it's always the same haters all the time. Fire this guy and that guy. Remember last summer they wanted McD fired. They wanted Greg Roman gone too... So much uneducated hate out there.
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