So whatever will happen to "Right Josh" Rosen?

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

1 hour ago, TwistofFate said:

I don't care that he's not a Bill, it is what it is.  What's done is done. 

 

I think it's just silly to make statements like Rosen isnt qualified to play in the NFL.  Or...to act like him being traded to another team after a rookie campaign had anything to do with his performance and nothing to do with fact the staff that drafted him was fired and the new staff went a completely different direction at the position. 

 

His entire caeer thus far has been terribly mis-managed and he hasn't been put in any kind of situation to succeed. 

 

That's what's happened to him. 

 

The only Qbs from that class that haven't been mismanaged are Allen and Jackson.  

 

 

 

No, I finally figured you out.  You wanted Rosen so bad (because you assessed and stated he was the best QB in the draft) and for probably personal reasons, that you have an agenda to trash Allen because you didn't get what you want.  This is the primary reason for your disdain towards Allen whether you will admit it or not.  Your fervent defense of Rosen and obsessive critique of Allen only proves this point.  

Edited January 18, 2020 by Lieutenant Aldo Raine

[Albany,n.y.]

1 hour ago, TwistofFate said:

I don't care that he's not a Bill, it is what it is.  What's done is done. 

 

I think it's just silly to make statements like Rosen isnt qualified to play in the NFL.  Or...to act like him being traded to another team after a rookie campaign had anything to do with his performance and nothing to do with fact the staff that drafted him was fired and the new staff went a completely different direction at the position. 

 

His entire caeer thus far has been terribly mis-managed and he hasn't been put in any kind of situation to succeed. 

 

That's what's happened to him. 

 

The only Qbs from that class that haven't been mismanaged are Allen and Jackson.  

 

 

OK, he's as qualified to play in the NFL as all the other recent 1st round busts who got to hang on a few years past their expiration dates because at one time they were good in college.  

He was traded for pennies on the dollar because the other NFL teams realized the odds are he's a bust after watching film of him as a rookie.  The closest thing in terms of QB devaluation in recent years was GB cutting 2nd rounder Brian Brohm after 1 season & the Bills eventually signing him off GB's practice squad months after he cleared waivers.

Back when the Bills signed Brohm there were plenty of guys like you who said "I saw him play in college" and others saying "he was projected as a high 1st rounder" and proclaimed him to be a steal for the Bills.  I warned them that QBs are treated like gold among GMs and for any prospect to flame out that quickly where you're getting him for pennies on the dollar is a very bad sign.  They all know now they were wrong about Brohm as you are about Rosen.  

Face it, once they have NFL film on these QBs, NFL GMs by their actions know more than any of us on a message board.  You haven't faced the fact that no matter how he was treated, Rosen was always going to bust.  Almost every GM has that figured out by now.  

Edited January 18, 2020 by Albany,n.y.

[C.Biscuit97]

46 minutes ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

No, I finally figured you out.  You wanted Rosen so bad (because you assessed and stated he was the best QB in the draft) and for probably personal reasons, that you have an agenda to trash Allen because you didn't get what you want.  This is the primary reason for your disdain towards Allen whether you will admit it or not.  Your fervent defense of Rosen and obsessive critique of Allen only proves this point.  

While that could be true, there are other factors.  If Rosen and Allen got switched, maybe both of their careers are different.  They had very similar passing numbers their rookie years.  Allen didn’t have his OC fired 4 games into the season.  
 

it’s also ok to doubt certain things with Allen.  He has shown some good things but he is far from completely established.  But as of right, clearly he is having the better career.  But I don’t think any reasonable person can argue that he hasn’t been in a much, much better situation to succeed than Rosen.  

[Teddy KGB]

Is twistoffate 26 reincarnated? 

[frostbitmic]

5 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

...LMAO....best he'll do is "ball boy".....and complain about the other 9 assigned before him..............

I'll disagree my friend ... The Daughter of the Pegula's will make them both stars on the mixed double set ... He's just in the wrong sport at the moment.

 

He'll get help ... Just watch . ?

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

48 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

While that could be true, there are other factors.  If Rosen and Allen got switched, maybe both of their careers are different.  They had very similar passing numbers their rookie years.  Allen didn’t have his OC fired 4 games into the season.  
 

it’s also ok to doubt certain things with Allen.  He has shown some good things but he is far from completely established.  But as of right, clearly he is having the better career.  But I don’t think any reasonable person can argue that he hasn’t been in a much, much better situation to succeed than Rosen.  

 

Of course it's okay to doubt certain things about Allen or any other player on this team for that matter.  That's not my point.  My point oriented at ToF was how he is so obsessed with crucifying Allen regardless and now I (we) know why.  He's still upset about the draft and will never accept Allen as the Bills QB.  

[TwistofFate]

1 hour ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

No, I finally figured you out.  You wanted Rosen so bad (because you assessed and stated he was the best QB in the draft) and for probably personal reasons, that you have an agenda to trash Allen because you didn't get what you want.  This is the primary reason for your disdain towards Allen whether you will admit it or not.  Your fervent defense of Rosen and obsessive critique of Allen only proves this point.  

My disdain for Allen comes at his lack of passing performance given the fact that he has had tools put all around him yet continues to not make any meaningful leap in production.  It has absolutely nothing to do with Rosen. Rosen doesn't play for the Bills, Allen does. 

 

And for your information, Mahomes is the Qb I wanted this organization to draft. 

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

1 minute ago, TwistofFate said:

My disdain for Allen comes at his lack of passing performance given the fact that he has had tools put all around him yet continues to not make any meaningful leap in production.  It has absolutely nothing to do with Rosen. Rosen doesn't play for the Bills, Allen does. 

 

And for your information, Mahomes is the Qb I wanted this organization to draft. 

 

Yet here you are defending Rosen like the second coming.  You have a personal vendetta against Allen period.  

[C.Biscuit97]

46 minutes ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

Yet here you are defending Rosen like the second coming.  You have a personal vendetta against Allen period.  

I haven’t read through the whole thread but is it really defending Rosen like the second coming by pointing out how awful he has been handled?  I would think the same thing if it was Rosen, Allen, Mayfield, Jackson, Darnold, etc.  Arizona and Miami put on a clinic on how not to develop a qb.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

No, I finally figured you out.  You wanted Rosen so bad (because you assessed and stated he was the best QB in the draft) and for probably personal reasons, that you have an agenda to trash Allen because you didn't get what you want.  This is the primary reason for your disdain towards Allen whether you will admit it or not.  Your fervent defense of Rosen and obsessive critique of Allen only proves this point.  

 

1 hour ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

Yet here you are defending Rosen like the second coming.  You have a personal vendetta against Allen period.  

 

I'd kind of hate to have to lock the thread I started to discuss Rosen's possible future because it's been turned into Yet Another Allen Campaign.

 

 

[TwistofFate]

1 hour ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

Yet here you are defending Rosen like the second coming.  You have a personal vendetta against Allen period.  

lol, how can I have a personal vendetta against someone I don't even know? 

 

It's not that hard to defend Rosen, anyone with a single shred of common sense can see his situation is far less than optimal. 

 

And....the whole point of this thread is to discuss Rosen....

 

 

"Fitz gives us the best chance to win. It's easy for people to sit and say, 'You should do this or that, or this or that.' I don't think those same people will stand in front of that group and say, 'This is in the best interest of the team, for us to win this week,'" Flores said. "That's no knock on Josh. Maybe you think that's in the best interest, but you're not in front of this team every day. You're not in the trenches and a lot of people aren't."

Flores believes he could lose the respect of his locker room by telling his players Rosen gives them the best chance to win instead of Fitzpatrick.

 

Rosen has been dealt a bad hand since being drafted No. 10 overall by Arizona in 2018: He has been on two rebuilding teams with constant change, subpar offensive lines and complex schemes -- and each has had an escape plan if it didn't go well with him. Rosen said he doesn't spend much time wishing he could have landed in a more stable situation, such as those of fellow 2018 quarterbacks Lamar Jackson (Baltimore Ravens) and Josh Allen (Buffalo Bills).

 

Its clear to see by anyone without bias. 

 

https://www.espn.com/blog/miami-dolphins/post/_/id/30317/planning-ahead-josh-rosens-future-dolphins-2020-qb-picture

 

Edited January 18, 2020 by Hapless Bills Fan
replace google link with actual link

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 minutes ago, TwistofFate said:

Rosen has been dealt a bad hand since being drafted No. 10 overall by Arizona in 2018: He has been on two rebuilding teams with constant change, subpar offensive lines and complex schemes -- and each has had an escape plan if it didn't go well with him. Rosen said he doesn't spend much time wishing he could have landed in a more stable situation, such as those of fellow 2018 quarterbacks Lamar Jackson (Baltimore Ravens) and Josh Allen (Buffalo Bills).

 

Its clear to see by anyone without bias. 

https://www.espn.com/blog/miami-dolphins/post/_/id/30317/planning-ahead-josh-rosens-future-dolphins-2020-qb-picture

 

Regarding the link - didn't Tua Tagovailoa say he'd return to Alabama next year?  Did he declare for the draft instead?

 

Edit: OK, I guess he did

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001094892/article/alabama-qb-tua-tagovailoa-declares-for-2020-nfl-draft

[Teddy KGB]

15 minutes ago, TwistofFate said:

 

 

It's not that hard to defend Rosen, anyone with a single shred of common sense can see his situation is far less than optimal. 

 

 

Seems pretty hard.    The guy is 2-2 at flaming out for 2 different teams.   
 

Poor man’s Jeff George. 

 

[Putin]

6 hours ago, TwistofFate said:

I don't care that he's not a Bill, it is what it is.  What's done is done. 

 

I think it's just silly to make statements like Rosen isnt qualified to play in the NFL.  Or...to act like him being traded to another team after a rookie campaign had anything to do with his performance and nothing to do with fact the staff that drafted him was fired and the new staff went a completely different direction at the position. 

 

His entire caeer thus far has been terribly mis-managed and he hasn't been put in any kind of situation to succeed. 

 

That's what's happened to him. 

 

The only Qbs from that class that haven't been mismanaged are Allen and Jackson.  

 

 

Dolphins definitely mismanaged the first overall pick by not letting  Rosen play the full season 

[TwistofFate]

2 hours ago, Teddy KGB said:

Seems pretty hard.    The guy is 2-2 at flaming out for 2 different teams.   
 

Poor man’s Jeff George. 

 

So a top 10 pick flames out after starting 14 games???  On two different teams? 

 

Man, the hypocrisy on this board is insane! 

[Teddy KGB]

34 minutes ago, TwistofFate said:

So a top 10 pick flames out after starting 14 games???  On two different teams? 

 

Man, the hypocrisy on this board is insane! 

omg you are 26 corner???

[Bing Bong]

8 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Well said, I think the qb and receiver situation that Allen had as a rookie was pretty dumb but he has had the luxury of a top 3 defense both years.  The team also committed to building the o line around him and got him some weapons.  It’s so weird to say but we finally gave a young qb a non dysfunctional situation to grow in.  That’s the exact opposite of what Rosen has had.  It’s like out of a textbook of how to ruin a young quarterback.

The defense alone was a world of difference between the Cards and Bills. One QB had to force the issue with a bad supporting caste, the other could live to see another possession... Also with a bad supporting caste. Arizona was a whole nother world of rookie quarterback hell compared to Buffalo... AND WE SHOULD CONSIDER THAT A GOOD THING

 

people here acting like they wanted JA's rookie year to suck as much as Rosen's to prove he's tougher or something.

 

I don't understand our infatuation with the other quarterbacks in Josh Allen's draft class. Them being good or flat out sucking makes no difference to JA's performance. 

Edited January 19, 2020 by BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P

[folz]

I'm sure most of this has already been said, but the thing is no one can say with certainty right now whether Rosen can or can't develop into a starting QB in this league.

 

Let me state first, I wanted Darnold or Allen in the draft and I would have been happy with Mayfield too. The only two I didn't want were Rosen and Jackson. Rosen based on the personality/likability issues raised at draft time (not his play) and Jackson because I was worried that he wasn't a good enough passer. I am thrilled the Bills went with Allen. I think he was the perfect fit for Buffalo and wouldn't trade him for any of the other guys.

 

But there is no way that anyone, except for maybe the Miami staff, can properly evaluate Josh Rosen at this point. He gets drafted by a stripped-down Arizona team with a historically bad offensive line and a first-year head coach (who wouldn't even get a  second year). There was no stability at all in the team or the organization and no weapons (except an aging Fitzgerald). That was not a good situation for developing a QB. The whole team was not just devoid of talent, but was also learning a new playbook, getting used to new coaches, etc, like Josh. 

 

Then he (a top 10 draft pick) is traded away after just one season. An unprecedented move in the league. That couldn't have helped his confidence. And the team he is traded to is in the midst of an historic purge of talent and full-on rebuild mode. And he has to once again get to know an entirely different playbook, teammates, coaches, and city. None of the other four QBs drafted with Rosen had to do all four of those things. Darnold is the only other one that had to do even two of those things. And Rosen, who apparently doesn't have the warmest of personalities, has to try to win a team over against one of the most loved QBs (personality-wise) in the league in Fitz? And he only had 3 starts in Miami. That may be because he wasn't ready, but under his circumstances, it isn't surprising that he wasn't ready. Plus, you can't extract his long-term potential from those three games.

 

It is absolutely ridiculous to think a QB could develop and be good under those circumstances. Josh Allen, under much better circumstances (except for the O-line and WR talent of last year), has played 28 games and people still say he needs more time before a complete evaluation can be made on him (which is true). Well Rosen has only had 16 starts with two really bad teams having to start all over from scratch in year two. How can anyone give him a fair evaluation right now.

 

I'll just add one stat into the conversation (as far as offensive line play is concerned---understanding that some sacks are on the QB, not the O-line, but...), Rosen has been sacked once every 8.2 attempts. In comparison, Josh Allen had been sacked once every 11.8 attempts, Darnold has been sacked once every 13.5 attempts, and Mayfield has been sacked once every 15.7 attempts. I don't know if Rosen could have or still can become a good QB or not in the right situation, but to evaluate him as terrible at this point seems unfair to me.

 

 

 

As to the OP's original question, I would say it comes down to how the Miami staff feels about him. The hiring of Chan Gailey makes me think that they plan to at least start next season with Fitz at QB. Meaning they still don't think Rosen will be ready at the start of next season or don't believe in him at all.

 

The next thought is will Miami draft a QB in the first round this year. It looks like Tua will be available to them at 5. He seems to be the guy they have wanted all along. So, I say Miami does draft Tua, but plans to start Fitz until Tua is healthy and has developed enough to take over the reigns (be that in year one or year two). If they thought somewhat highly of Rosen (even if they think he needs a lot of work still) maybe you keep him as a third developmental project. Wouldn't be bad having two top-10 drafted QBs to develop, to hedge your bets. But the way NFL rosters are now, it is tough to keep three QBs. So, ultimately, I think Miami will look to trade Rosen again (unless they can't secure a QB they want in the draft, in which case he probably would get one more year in Miami).

 

And just as Arizona did not get a return on their investment, I don't think Miami gets as much as they traded for him. I don't think Rosen finds a starting spot next year, as most teams right now either have their QB, are grooming one, or will draft one. But I could see a team pick him up just to take a looksie, to see if they think they could develop him and hope in the meantime that he might be good enough as their number two. I could see teams like New England, Pittsburgh, Indy, or the Chargers taking a look. Teams that have an older QB, who will be in the QB market soon, so why not take a look and see if you can basically get a guy for pennies on the dollar (that is if any of them liked him coming out of the draft). Or maybe Indy if they aren't completely sold on Jacoby as their starter. Bring Rosen in as competition. I bet Frank could get the best out of him. No doubt someone will take a look, but Rosen will probably have to prove that he can at least be a decent backup right now, in order to eventually get another shot at being a starter. I think if he goes to a stable organization and can win a backup job, he'll get another shot some day and at worst will be able to hang around the league for a while as a backup. But if he goes to another bad situation, I could see him being out of the league by the end of his rookie deal.

 

Edited January 19, 2020 by folz

[White Linen]

On 1/16/2020 at 5:49 PM, Nextmanup said:

Couldn't disagree more with the "statue" concept.

 

A QB's ability to read a defense and accurately deliver the ball through the air will always keep him in the league and very successfully, too, regardless of running ability. 

 

All the athleticism in the world won't overcome an inability to that, and the QBs who get by on athleticism more than passing are always going to be on the edge of losing their starting job.

 

Lamar Jackson is a great example...check back in with his career in a couple of years.  It may not be where you think it's going to be, based on his first year.

 

 

 

Disagreeing that 2 + 2= 4 is your prerogative.

[BUFFALOKIE]

On 1/16/2020 at 6:05 PM, Blue on Blue said:

Maybe it was the "F*%k Trump" hat. 

 

Kaepernick also tried to tussle with Orange Man; last seen he was somewhere in Georgia on a high school field, throwing make-believe passes in his shorts.

THAT was the ONLY thing I liked about Rosen!