RyanC883 Posted January 16, 2020 Posted January 16, 2020 he will go to NE, where holding never gets called, and torment us. jk, I hope. If the Dolphins cut him, I could see him at Pitt or another team that needs a backup and has an aging vet. Saints also if Teddy B is gone, which I assume he will be because he is a starter.
ProcessAccepted Posted January 16, 2020 Posted January 16, 2020 13 hours ago, tcampbell104 said: i think that if new england traded for him and he got to sit behind brady for a year it could revive his career. the guy does have talent the pats offense with belichick coaching could be a .match I don't think he has the mindset for that to work. He comes off as if he has a chip on his shoulder. When you are putting all the blame on the situations you've been put in and not what you yourself are doing (or not doing) then things generally do not work out well. 1
2003Contenders Posted January 16, 2020 Posted January 16, 2020 I have to admit that I do not get too caught up in pre-draft hype, as I do not pretend to have a fraction of the knowledge that the Bills' scouts and front office have -- and just hope that they get things right. That is to say that I never had a dog in the Allen-or-Rosen fight and merely hoped that the Bills picked the right one. Say what you will, but Beane and his staff did their due diligence with that 2018 draft in regards to the QBs. I could be wrong, but I believe that for a variety of reasons, Josh Allen was the guy they came to a consensus on and would have taken him even if they had the #1 overall pick. That isn't to say that Allen has been or will be the top QB in that draft -- just that the Bills' brain trust believed that he was the right QB for them. The prevailing belief about Rosen headed into the draft was that he had the highest floor of the various QB prospects and was the most pro-NFL ready of the bunch. The biggest knock on him consistently seemed to be personality-based (some compared him to Jay Cutler). There were some NFL scouts that whispered that perhaps the NFL was not the main goal for him as he had other aspirations (perhaps political in nature). On draft night there were two things that stood out to me. The first was physical. When Rosen stepped onto the stage you could easily see the huge difference in his stature versus Josh Allen's -- compared to Allen's broad frame, Rosen looked almost frail in comparison. The second was Rosen's attitude and comments in post-draft interviews. Some guys (like Thurman Thomas and Tom Brady) are able to make perceived slights in the draft process as ammunition to embolden and motivate them. Rosen didn't come off as a guy that would use his fall in the draft is this way -- but, rather, came off to me as a whiner. It is true that Rosen has been in some unenviable situations in Arizona and Miami. That said, he is a smart guy and throws a nice ball, so there is a place for him in the NFL (even as a backup) -- if he chooses to do the work on and off the field. From that perspective, contrary to his pre-draft analysis, maybe he could prove to be a late bloomer in the right situation a la Rich Gannon. However, if the pre-draft rumblings about his personality and real motivations are correct, his tenure in the NFL will be short-lived. 1
BillsfanAZ Posted January 16, 2020 Posted January 16, 2020 I watched Rosen play here with the Cardinals. He made some great throws and a lot of questionable ones. He has been on two bad teams that didnt build around him. If the Dolphins go QB in the 1st round, Rosen may get cut or traded for a late round pick. I think there are a lot of teams like the Raiders, Patriots, Steelers, Buc, Browns, and Eagles that would like a younger somewhat experienced back up QB.
dollars 2 donuts Posted January 16, 2020 Posted January 16, 2020 13 hours ago, sven233 said: Not that he has been great while getting a chance to start, but he's gotten a pretty raw deal if you ask me. Two terrible organizations with absolutely no chance of winning with a young QB. I'm not sure what will end up happening to him, but I do hope that he ends up in a good situation on a good team where he can backup for a couple years while working on his craft. 13 hours ago, inaugural balls said: I can't get over it. I look at him and see punk. Weird, but I agree with both of these.
White Linen Posted January 16, 2020 Posted January 16, 2020 14 hours ago, HappyDays said: I think Rosen could have been great 10 years ago. The NFL has moved away from statue QBs. If you aren't at least somewhat athletic you aren't going to survive. Rosen's style will make him a career bridge starter at best. I think this is a very important point.
T master Posted January 16, 2020 Posted January 16, 2020 I kind of feel sorry for the kid ! He came out as a top prospect & i for one hoped the Bills would pick him up but in hind sight i am glad they didn't in a way, i think a lot to do with him not producing is due to the coaching he has received to this point & quite possibly the schemes he has been in . I think the best fit for him & possibly the best scheme for him would be with the Pats, his game is very Brady like with a bit more mobility his accuracy in college any way was very good & i think if he found a offensive scheme that fit him & bolstered his confidence because at this point it has to be in the dumpster it would help him . But then there is the other side of the coin, he could be where he is because of what was said about him coming out of college that his attitude was bad & he's not a team kind of guy kind of like Losman was when he was drafted here & if that be the case then the kid is doomed to collect his millions on a back ups contract & retire to a house in Arizona ! Poor ba**ard it's a tough life but someone has to do it !!
BigBillsFan Posted January 16, 2020 Posted January 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I don't think "sissy" is a good description of any QB who has shown the ability to take a hit in the NFL and come back for the next play. The man took 45 sacks his rookie season. Doesn't mean he'll become a capable NFL QB, but he's not a sissy. I mean mentally. You can't be thin skinned, you can't let others know your struggles or you can't focus on your job but on the firestorm you created. When you say you're going to make teams "pay" for not drafting you you've done 2 things: 1st you've made yourself a mountain you can't climb by yourself, which is winning as it's a team sport; and 2nd every time you lose and fail to make them pay you make a distraction to the team, yourself and you become a mark. Adding extra pressure on a rookie rarely ever works. 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 16, 2020 Author Posted January 16, 2020 7 minutes ago, BigBillsFan said: I mean mentally. You can't be thin skinned, you can't let others know your struggles or you can't focus on your job but on the firestorm you created. When you say you're going to make teams "pay" for not drafting you you've done 2 things: 1st you've made yourself a mountain you can't climb by yourself, which is winning as it's a team sport; and 2nd every time you lose and fail to make them pay you make a distraction to the team, yourself and you become a mark. Adding extra pressure on a rookie rarely ever works. You have good points, especially the point about 'making yourself a mountain you can't climb by yourself in a team sport' and creating a distraction. I'm not sure it fits the common definition of a "sissy", though. I'd call it maybe being a bloviator, or just bringing trouble on yourself. 1
billykay Posted January 16, 2020 Posted January 16, 2020 16 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: He got traded away from AZ to the Tanking Dolphins for a 2nd round and 5th round pick which is quite a value drop for a top-10 pick. He then got beat out by Fitzmagic for the starting job on the tanking Dolphins. Fitzmagic predictably bollixed up the Phins tank to the tune of 5 wins, but they're still drafting pretty high. What happens to Rosen? He's under contract for 2 more years. He's got substantial guaranteed money as roster bonuses. $4.9M dead cap to cut him. Just curiousity here. I heard a piece on some football talk show mid-season where Jordan Palmer was still expressing the viewpoint that Rosen could play and hadn't really been put in a position to succeed. The Phins, by the way, do have Fitzy under contract for 2020 with an $8M salary ($4M is guaranteed). That guy, I tell ya. Career earnings of $63.5M and counting. I agree with Palmer. Rosen was just too good of a college QB to wind up as a bench warmer.
Nextmanup Posted January 16, 2020 Posted January 16, 2020 6 hours ago, White Linen said: I think this is a very important point. Couldn't disagree more with the "statue" concept. A QB's ability to read a defense and accurately deliver the ball through the air will always keep him in the league and very successfully, too, regardless of running ability. All the athleticism in the world won't overcome an inability to that, and the QBs who get by on athleticism more than passing are always going to be on the edge of losing their starting job. Lamar Jackson is a great example...check back in with his career in a couple of years. It may not be where you think it's going to be, based on his first year.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted January 16, 2020 Posted January 16, 2020 ...Cliff Notes Version......"nine other mistakes before me".....hope putz boy forever eats those words as far as an NFL career...... 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 16, 2020 Author Posted January 16, 2020 21 minutes ago, Nextmanup said: Couldn't disagree more with the "statue" concept. A QB's ability to read a defense and accurately deliver the ball through the air will always keep him in the league and very successfully, too, regardless of running ability. All the athleticism in the world won't overcome an inability to that, and the QBs who get by on athleticism more than passing are always going to be on the edge of losing their starting job. Lamar Jackson is a great example...check back in with his career in a couple of years. It may not be where you think it's going to be, based on his first year. Actually ....there's a big distinction between running ability/athleticism, "pocket presence/mobility", and a "statue" I wish I could remember who it was, but before the draft someone put up data about QB mobility vs. success in the NFL. The bottom line was that there was a "sweet spot" where QB who were too immobile weren't successful; QB who were too mobile weren't as successful either. NFL defenses are so fast and strong that a QB has to be able to sense pressure, move around, and re-set. While QB like Brees or Brady aren't noted for being dual-threat QB, they have a great ability to sense pressure and take two steps or duck a bit and make a guy miss. My impression of Rosen when I saw some Zona games last year was that he was more mobile than I thought, but since I thought he was a statue, that was a low bar. 1
Stanley Lombardi Posted January 17, 2020 Posted January 17, 2020 Maybe it was the "F*%k Trump" hat. Kaepernick also tried to tussle with Orange Man; last seen he was somewhere in Georgia on a high school field, throwing make-believe passes in his shorts. 1
LSHMEAB Posted January 17, 2020 Posted January 17, 2020 9 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I don't want to come off as dissing the "league MVP", but at this point, I think it has to be acknowledged that Jackson has some gaps in his QB game that several strong defenses have managed to exploit. Agree about Allen. The keys to me are: 1) will he succeed in engraining a change to his footwork deeply enough so that it holds under pressure, in a game? 2) will he stop paying lip service to the "take what they give you" mantra and actually start being able to live by it? Agree completely on the keys for Allen and I'm also not sure about Jackson's longevity. It looks like the strategy is (wisely) to let him get his rushing yards, but take away the bread and butter tosses to the tight ends. It's a pick your poison situation, but it definitely "worked" for the Titans. I think the Bills had the same strategy; just happened to catch us a few times. If you look at the playoff game, he had 20 rushes for 143 yards which is pretty remarkable if you consider they were down from the start. Doesn't mean you just let him run wild, but the strategy (appears to be) to rely on the front 7 to slow him down "enough," but do all you can to take away those TE's. So again, I just don't know about this QB class. The class was billed as "generational," but I'm old enough to remember 1999; TIM COUCH/Donovan McNabb/AKILI SMITH/Daunte Culpepper/CADE MCNOWN. So that's 3 flat out BUSTS, one very good QB (McNabb), and one guy who had some decent seasons(Culpepper). Not exactly generational. It IS too early to draw final conclusions on this class, but there are some similarities emerging. As I said before, Allen, for me, is the wildcard. I wouldn't be surprised it he doesn't improve in the areas you mentioned and remains a middle of the road guy, but I also wouldn't be shocked if he puts in so much work that he continues to defy analytics. He's already exceeded my expectations, so I'm much more open to the possibility that I was wrong initially. I'm far from sold, but I feel better about his chances now than I did when he was drafted. Rosen/Mayfield/Darnold. I just don't see greatness or even the potential for greatness. But that's just like, my opinion. 1
ToGoGo Posted January 17, 2020 Posted January 17, 2020 "He never had a chance with the team around him" is the same thing we would be saying about Josh Allen if he sucked. Except he overcame it. Rosen didn't. Not even a sliver. 2
BringBackFergy Posted January 17, 2020 Posted January 17, 2020 1 hour ago, ToGoGo said: "He never had a chance with the team around him" is the same thing we would be saying about Josh Allen if he sucked. Except he overcame it. Rosen didn't. Not even a sliver. Thank you!! See my two or three posts above. You nailed it.
Chicken Boo Posted January 17, 2020 Posted January 17, 2020 He can make all the throws. The Phins would be wise to build around him. They could build a contender quick with all the pics they have. That said, I wouldn't blame them if they draft a QB high.
apuszczalowski Posted January 17, 2020 Posted January 17, 2020 I think the Dolphins draft someone this year and have them sit behind Fitz until Fitzmagic fizzles out Rosen is either released or dealt again this offseason. I could see him ending up in NE and sitting behind Brady for a year as BB works with him and they get a 1st round QB for next to nothing to take over for Brady.
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