MJS Posted January 15, 2020 Posted January 15, 2020 2 hours ago, BillsMafi$ said: soooo the Bills averaged about 3 yards more than the 25 yard line (what a touchback gives you) on kickoff returns (so the 28 yard line) With 1 return all year going into the opponent's territory so I don’t really think Roberts is someone this team really needs and we can fill the roster else where with someone else How would you use that roster spot and who would you have returning kicks instead? 4 minutes ago, Mark Long Beach said: I hear that you don't value those 3 yards much as a roster spot. I disagree. Those yards are "free" yards. No down required. It's also better that almost every other team in the league! Many of those teams are net NEGATIVE yards, not to mention net negative in fumbles. Even a "small" contribution is a contribution and he is among the best in the league at it. I'll take it over some bottom of the roster long shot. How many years have we had to hold our breath every return play, hoping the returner doesn't turn the ball over? It's so nice to have a guy back there who won't turn it over.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted January 15, 2020 Posted January 15, 2020 42 minutes ago, Captain Caveman said: The roster sport for a special teams only player is a bigger investment than the $. About 3 yards extra (over taking the ball at the 25) is the actual benefit. Bobby April screwed the pooch...had WAAAAY to much say in the final 53.....injury bug hit and NONE of his guys were worth a dump at their natural positions......Jauron went body shopping at Walmart......almost hired to 78 year old door greeter....SMH.......
Mango Posted January 15, 2020 Posted January 15, 2020 Honest question. Say we hold a team to 3 and out at their own 15.They punt, caught at the 50 returned to the 40, what does that do to the yards after 25? Even if he fair catches at the 50, does he still get a 25 yard credit?
LabattBlue Posted January 15, 2020 Posted January 15, 2020 Is it time for free agency and the draft yet? Let it go.
TheBrownBear Posted January 15, 2020 Posted January 15, 2020 I have never understood the griping here about Roberts. The guy is sure handed and smart. He's the perfect punt catcher/return guy. 1
GunnerBill Posted January 15, 2020 Posted January 15, 2020 19 minutes ago, MJS said: How would you use that roster spot and who would you have returning kicks instead? Anyone MJS.... anyone can return kicks. Look at the stats. Okay, they don't support my argument but still..... anyone can do it. Anyone. *check sarcasm meter before reading.
HOUSE Posted January 15, 2020 Posted January 15, 2020 But did he save the squeaky puppy toys from the burning car ? I didn't think so......
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted January 15, 2020 Posted January 15, 2020 44 minutes ago, Mark Long Beach said: I hear that you don't value those 3 yards much as a roster spot. I disagree. Those yards are "free" yards. No down required. It's also better that almost every other team in the league! Many of those teams are net NEGATIVE yards, not to mention net negative in fumbles. Even a "small" contribution is a contribution and he is among the best in the league at it. I'll take it over some bottom of the roster long shot. I guess it’s better than a kick off specialist like we’ve seen in the past. I'm probably just bitter that Yeldon and Williams were not active for some offensive depth so Dimarco, and lee Smith were running go routes while Gore was running sweeps. ?♂️
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted January 15, 2020 Posted January 15, 2020 46 minutes ago, MJS said: How would you use that roster spot and who would you have returning kicks instead? those who did it collegiately or in the pros: singletary, Poyer, Hyde, Brown, Tre’Davious, Cole Beasley, McKenzie to name a few
Rochesterfan Posted January 15, 2020 Posted January 15, 2020 57 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Roster spot, AS well as active on game day is much more valuable to me. also those 3 yards were on 50% of “returnable” kickoffs. If they average say 10 drives per game, with their defense, say half of those drives start with receiving a kickoff. so 50% of their drives there is a kickoff. of those I don’t know how many were returnable, so say they all were. of those he returned 50%. so 25% of their drives started with a kickoff return. that means his maximum average contribution per drive is 25% of 3 yards. if the math is right, a wr or RB with 8 yards a game, adds more net production to the offense on average then does the kr specialist in this case, especially given his lack of help on offense. Duke, and Yeldon, in just a few games netted the offense more offensive field position on the season. crazy right? Not exactly. If you had replaced Roberts with McKenzie and used their return averages (only thing we can do). Roberts on his nearly 60 combined returns accounted for 260 more yards than McKenzie would have just based upon the difference in their averages. That 260 yards is more yards than McKenzie had receiving for the season as the #3 WR on the team. It is also more than Foster and Duke Williams had receiving combined on the season and close to what the 2 of them and Zay Jones had combined for the Bills. His return yardage above replacement - would land him in 5th on the team for receiving yards as the #3 receiver. And that is just yards over replacement not the total number of yards he produced on returns. In the end you could of replaced him with McKenzie to open up a roster spot, but what would that spot have bought you. Your KR and PR yardage drops and as McKenzie played WR 3 most of the season - you are talking about dressing another WR that would have not seen the field. You increase risk and decrease Efficiency on returns for potential of having another WR that gives you less as a WR - like Foster. 1
MJS Posted January 15, 2020 Posted January 15, 2020 13 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: those who did it collegiately or in the pros: singletary, Poyer, Hyde, Brown, Tre’Davious, Cole Beasley, McKenzie to name a few Generally you don't want to have starters in that role because of injury risk. McKenzie has been a little of a risk in the past. Plus he's better than all those guys at it.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted January 16, 2020 Posted January 16, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said: Not exactly. If you had replaced Roberts with McKenzie and used their return averages (only thing we can do). Roberts on his nearly 60 combined returns accounted for 260 more yards than McKenzie would have just based upon the difference in their averages. That 260 yards is more yards than McKenzie had receiving for the season as the #3 WR on the team. It is also more than Foster and Duke Williams had receiving combined on the season and close to what the 2 of them and Zay Jones had combined for the Bills. His return yardage above replacement - would land him in 5th on the team for receiving yards as the #3 receiver. And that is just yards over replacement not the total number of yards he produced on returns. In the end you could of replaced him with McKenzie to open up a roster spot, but what would that spot have bought you. Your KR and PR yardage drops and as McKenzie played WR 3 most of the season - you are talking about dressing another WR that would have not seen the field. You increase risk and decrease Efficiency on returns for potential of having another WR that gives you less as a WR - like Foster. cant count total rerun yards though since in most cases touchback is a given. That’s why netting the 25 is relevant. but I hear the counter point. I’ve just viewed KR as a depth payer for another spot too. Roberts for whatever reason was not good at all as a wr Edited January 16, 2020 by Over 29 years of fanhood
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted January 16, 2020 Posted January 16, 2020 10 minutes ago, MJS said: Generally you don't want to have starters in that role because of injury risk. McKenzie has been a little of a risk in the past. Plus he's better than all those guys at it. sure - just dislike marginalizing the offensive tools for ST. maybe he can just learn how to play wr.., then I’m fine
BuffaloBillyG Posted January 16, 2020 Posted January 16, 2020 4 hours ago, Capco said: All 3 phases need to perform at a high level. He does his part on Special Teams. It would be nice if he could be a part of the passing game but that's not necessary to be a contributor to W's. I mean how many balls has Matthew Slater caught from Tom Brady in his career? I'd estimate at least 2 on the chin. 4
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted January 16, 2020 Posted January 16, 2020 5 minutes ago, No Place To Hyde said: I'd estimate at least 2 on the chin. whether he was playing offense or defense, he was helping the team 1
BuffaloBillyG Posted January 16, 2020 Posted January 16, 2020 Just now, Over 29 years of fanhood said: whether he was playing offense or defense, he was helping the team He absolutely does his 1/11 to make Brady a happy guy. 1
purple haze Posted January 16, 2020 Posted January 16, 2020 4 hours ago, Gambit said: I feel like people like you are missing out on the most important thing he does. He always catches the damn ball. How many times in the past have we had people drop the ball on returns, especially Punts? Yet with Roberts I'm always calm cause I have zero doubt he will catch it. To top it off he has a solid avg. Why make a hole we do not need? Because some have to find something to complain about. Wait for that Kickoff or Punt Return fumble in a big game and they'll be the first ones on the board crying about that too.
MAJBobby Posted January 16, 2020 Author Posted January 16, 2020 2 hours ago, Captain Caveman said: The roster sport for a special teams only player is a bigger investment than the $. About 3 yards extra (over taking the ball at the 25) is the actual benefit. Really shall I name the roster spots taken by guys that contributed Nothing let alone on KO and Punt return yardage
billsfan89 Posted January 16, 2020 Posted January 16, 2020 2 hours ago, HappyDays said: The potential for extra yardage isn't his value. It's the fact that he never muffs a kick. The past couple years I held my breath on every punt return. Not anymore. One bad muff can cost you a game, so having a sure handed player on punts is worth the roster spot esp if he brings a solid kickoff return (3 yards ain't bad) and I would assume above average to top 10 punt yardage (I think he had a ton of quality 6-8 yard returns with several 10+ yard returns.) The cap number is minimal and the contribution of not generating a turnover on special teams and getting positive return numbers more than justifies the roster spot.
Hurricane Posted January 16, 2020 Posted January 16, 2020 For the money we pay him, he can be replaced by a 5th rounder ...
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