For those that question what Andre Roberts has brought to the Bills.

[John from Riverside]

He didnt cost that much

He made me feel like the ball was not going to be fumbled......and it wasnt

He can stay....IMPROVE the blocking in front of him

[billsfan89]

As a kickoff returner, I can't honestly think of a dynamic return he had, maybe there was a couple of times he got the ball out to the 40 or close but I can't say he had a bigger return than that. However he didn't produce any turnovers and he didn't have many bad returns either. But as a punt returner I think he was easily top 10 in the league. No muffed punts and while he never had game breaking returns on punts he always had quality returns that added up. He had many 6-10 yard returns that might not seem like much but help shift field position significantly. 

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, Buffalo619 said:

His return does not equal the investment...

I'll give him some props for not muffing or fumbling any returns.  But I just felt meh regarding his total contribution to this team. Our punter was terrible and the ST penalties were still excessive. 

[Augie]

None of this makes me miss “I’d Do It Again Leodis”!    

Edited January 15, 2020 by Augie

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

8 minutes ago, Augie said:

None of this makes me miss “I’d Do It Again Leodis”!    

come on now.... every ST play with him was an emotional roller coaster.  
 

when have you felt more alive than when watching a kick descending into the waiting arms of ol’ 21? 

[fansince88]

1 hour ago, MAJBobby said:

yeah that Huge 1.5M investment. That is cap dust. 

I agree with @Buffalo619 in as much as his being just used on returns and filling a roster spot. That said, build more of the top end of the WR spot and then the investment is better

Edited January 15, 2020 by fansince88

[Augie]

5 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

come on now.... every ST play with him was an emotional roller coaster.  
 

when have you felt more alive than when watching a kick descending into the waiting arms of ol’ 21? 

 

One of the things I am most proud of in life is I never actually threw my beer at the TV.

 

Yes, my bar is pretty low, I’m aware. 

[Scott7975]

I wasn't against Roberts being out there but... can we have a data sheet that shows WHO contributed.  That way we can measure what everyone contributed to their teams on top of return yards. Like does someone else use a receiver that say gets 500 yards receiving a year or a CB that is pretty decent in passing defense.  I like the fact that Roberts almost doesn't fumble but...  on kickoffs he is practically useless as he pretty much averages just beyond a touchback. 

 

How many teams employ a guy that ONLY returns kicks/punts?  If I employed that guy then I would want someone that breaks them regularly (not necessarily a TD.)  Otherwise I would rather have an average guy that catches well but also has a good contribution in another phase.

Edited January 15, 2020 by Scott7975

[Captain Caveman]

1 hour ago, MAJBobby said:

yeah that Huge 1.5M investment. That is cap dust. 

The roster sport for a special teams only player is a bigger investment than the $.  

 

About 3 yards extra (over taking the ball at the 25) is the actual benefit.

[Mark Long Beach]

13 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

I wasn't against Roberts being out there but... can we have a data sheet that shows WHO contributed.  That way we can measure what everyone contributed to their teams on top of return yards. Like does someone else use a receiver that say gets 500 yards receiving a year or a CB that is pretty decent in passing defense.  I like the fact that Roberts almost doesn't fumble but...  on kickoffs he is practically useless as he pretty much averages just beyond a touchback. 

 

How many teams employ a guy that ONLY returns kicks/punts?  If I employed that guy then I would want someone that breaks them regularly (not necessarily a TD.)  Otherwise I would rather have an average guy that catches well but also has a good contribution in another phase.

 

Often a teams best punt or kick returner is a starting CB.  Since kick-offs and punts have the HIGHEST injury rate (per play) by far, I sure don't want my starting CB back there. And Leodis? ... oh god, I think I lost months of my life watching him return.   

 

Despite what we all want, the bottom of the roster is just that.  Long shots and JAGs.  Heck yeah he contributes more than that!   

 

He has no screw-ups, and has given us top 3 starting position for the whole league.  As a receiver, he's a JAG.  But so is the bottom of the roster.  While he didn't break a long one, that's not all on him, and he's done it before.  I'm more than satisfied with his performance.  

[Turk71]

  Not sure if it was mentioned but the chart does not include penalties. How many of his returns did the Bills take penalties on? How often did the penalties move the Bills back inside their 25? 

[eball]

2 hours ago, Buffalo619 said:

His return does not equal the investment...

 

Are you the same dolt who comments on articles he can't read because of the Buffalo News paywall?  Again, brilliant!

[Rochesterfan]

22 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

I wasn't against Roberts being out there but... can we have a data sheet that shows WHO contributed.  That way we can measure what everyone contributed to their teams on top of return yards. Like does someone else use a receiver that say gets 500 yards receiving a year or a CB that is pretty decent in passing defense.  I like the fact that Roberts almost doesn't fumble but...  on kickoffs he is practically useless as he pretty much averages just beyond a touchback. 

 

How many teams employ a guy that ONLY returns kicks/punts?  If I employed that guy then I would want someone that breaks them regularly (not necessarily a TD.)  Otherwise I would rather have an average guy that catches well but also has a good contribution in another phase.

 

Just a quick look at NFL.com looking at Kick returners and looking at their individual numbers show what you are looking for.

 

Most of the top returners are WRs (few RB and DBs) and they tend to average around 20 catches from the WR position.  Some like Tenn and Buffalo are under 10 and the Washington KR was top with 34 catches. Nothing earth shattering - very typical bottom of the WR numbers. You also have some RBs like Brandon Bolden in NE that returned Kick-offs and then basically sat on the bench with 15 rushes for the season.
 

Additionally when you add Punt returns - you immediately see several teams were forced to use a different PR from the kick off returner (like NE) and their primary PR also provided nothing on offense with 2 catches and 2 fumbles on the year.  
 

What it looks like to me is that Buffalo is the norm and is lucky to have a guy that can do both kick and punt return and he was sure handed enough not to turn the ball over. 11 punt returners in the league had 2 or more fumbles on the year and 15 Kick Returners had at least 1 fumble.  
 

So in the end you have a guy as a specialist that returns both Kicks and Punts, does not turn the ball over, and is among the top returners in yards and efficiency and the complaint is that you get nothing on offense.

 

The other thing o look at is who does it when Andre was inactive.  McKenzie is the most often used player and he averaged 5 yards less per Kick return and 4 yards less on PR. 
 

Everything points to the Bills are fine using Roberts exactly as they are right now and continuing to adjust as needed.  

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

33 minutes ago, Captain Caveman said:

The roster sport for a special teams only player is a bigger investment than the $.  

 

About 3 yards extra (over taking the ball at the 25) is the actual benefit.

Roster spot, AS well as active on game day is much more valuable to me. 
 

also those 3 yards were on 50% of “returnable” kickoffs.
 

If they average say 10 drives per game, with their defense, say half of those drives start with receiving a kickoff.
 

so 50% of their drives there is a kickoff. 
 

of those I don’t know how many were returnable, so say they all were. 
 

of those he returned 50%.

 

so 25% of their drives started with a kickoff return. 
 

that means his maximum average contribution per drive is 25% of 3 yards. 
 

if the math is right, a wr or RB with 8 yards a game, adds more net production to the offense on average then does the kr specialist  in this case, especially given his lack of help on offense. 

 

Duke, and Yeldon, in just a few games netted the offense more offensive field position on the season. 

crazy right? 

 

Edited January 15, 2020 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Rochesterfan]

17 minutes ago, Turk71 said:

  Not sure if it was mentioned but the chart does not include penalties. How many of his returns did the Bills take penalties on? How often did the penalties move the Bills back inside their 25? 

At one point in the middle of the season the Bills were among the least penalized teams on ST in the league.  It seemed they were getting more calls late, especially Alexander, but I still think they were in the top half of the least penalized special teams units.

[HappyDays]

The potential for extra yardage isn't his value. It's the fact that he never muffs a kick. The past couple years I held my breath on every punt return. Not anymore.

[John from Riverside]

36 minutes ago, Captain Caveman said:

The roster sport for a special teams only player is a bigger investment than the $.  

 

About 3 yards extra (over taking the ball at the 25) is the actual benefit.

And the security of knowing you have a player that can actually catch the punt...not fumble it....and give the other team great FP

[GunnerBill]

Most fans underrate the value of special teams and would prefer who ever that year's camp hero wide receiver is. 

 

Roberts has been an excellent value pick up. 

[Mark Long Beach]

7 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Roster spot, AS well as active on game day is much more valuable to me. 
 

also those 3 yards were on 50% of “returnable” kickoffs.
 

If they average say 10 drives per game, with their defense, say half of those drives start with receiving a kickoff.
 

so 50% of their drives there is a kickoff. 
 

of those I don’t know how many were returnable, so say they all were. 
 

of those he returned 50%.

 

so 25% of their drives started with a kickoff return. 
 

that means his maximum average contribution per drive is 25% of 3 yards. 
 

if the math is right, a wr or RB with 8 yards a game, adds more production to the offense on average then does the kr specialist. 
 

 

 

I hear that you don't value those 3 yards much as a roster spot.   I disagree.   Those yards are "free" yards.  No down required.   It's also better that almost every other team in the league!  Many of those teams are net NEGATIVE yards, not to mention net negative in fumbles.   

 

Even a "small" contribution is a contribution and he is among the best in the league at it.    I'll take it over some bottom of the roster long shot.

[JP's Voice]

I want to see Christian Wade as a core special teams player next year. IMO he has the perfect skill set to be a gunner, punt returner, and kick returner. Heck I'd even like to see him punting the ball. Punting, receiving, and tackling are all required skills of a professional rugby player.