Magox Posted January 14, 2020 Posted January 14, 2020 Even if he regressed in year 3 they wouldn't look for a new QB for year 4. He has shown way too much for that to happen. Would it be very concerning? Absolutely and he would be on a short leash in his 4th year with an eye on QB's for year 5. With that said, he's not going to regress. He will continue to improve because he has everything that he needs in between the ears and in his heart. That desire and intelligence along with his out-of-this-world talent will continue to push along his progression as a QB. As raw as he was he has much more room to grow than the other more polished QB's that came into the league along with him. I don't care what anyone says, I believe by the time it's all said and done he will have the best QB career out of all the QB's drafted the same year as him. 3
chongli Posted January 14, 2020 Posted January 14, 2020 5 hours ago, JMF2006 said: I some how doubt year 3 is a make or break year you don't draft a QB at 7th overall and toss him to the curb that easily. EJ Manuel says hi. 1
reddogblitz Posted January 14, 2020 Posted January 14, 2020 I have no idea what Josh will or will not do in the future for the Buffalo Bills. He has shows us some really good and some really bad. For that reason, we should try to upgrade out backup QB position THIS YEAR. We have built up a good team and D. Would be a shame for Josh to go down and then us have to waste another season because we don't have a decent backup. Would also be good to have someone to push Josh a little. If he can't handle that, he ain't the guy. Competition makes us stronger, right? Where have I hear that before? "QB is the most important position. Backup QB is the second most important." -- Joe Gibbs Joe had a decent backup (Doug Williams) Then there's also the Nick Foles/Jeff Hosstettler/Earl Moral situation where you have a good season going and the starter gets hurt but since you have good backup you can roll on. This is nothing to do with if Josh is THE GUY or not, just being prepared. With the way Josh plays, he's one Jadeveon Clowney hit away from IR. We should be prepared. No sense putting all your eggs in one basket. 3 1
Jrb1979 Posted January 14, 2020 Posted January 14, 2020 1 hour ago, John from Riverside said: I am not going to worry about anything regarding him till there is actually something to worry about. increase in all productivity from year 1 to year 2.....NO signs of regression. I expect a similar jump in year 3 That isn't good enough. At some point he needs to make a big jump. The playoffs has shown you need you QB and offense to put up more points then what the Bills averaged. 17-19 points is not good enough. Next season will be a big test. There is no way they have such an easy schedule playing so many teams below .500 again. 2
John from Riverside Posted January 14, 2020 Posted January 14, 2020 1 minute ago, Jrb1979 said: That isn't good enough. At some point he needs to make a big jump. The playoffs has shown you need you QB and offense to put up more points then what the Bills averaged. 17-19 points is not good enough. Next season will be a big test. There is no way they have such an easy schedule playing so many teams below .500 again. It IS good enough And if you abandon a QB that you draft and is getting better year to year in every category....then you deserve the decades of failure that this team has endured. We have a QB with talent.....give him what he needs to succeed and stop hitting the ***** reset button on this team 1
reddogblitz Posted January 14, 2020 Posted January 14, 2020 1 minute ago, John from Riverside said: It IS good enough And if you abandon a QB that you draft and is getting better year to year in every category....then you deserve the decades of failure that this team has endured. We have a QB with talent.....give him what he needs to succeed and stop hitting the ***** reset button on this team Or, if you hang onto your QB that you drafted high too long thinking he just about to hit it, you end up like the Dolphins with Ryan Tannehill or the Bucs with Crab Legs. If next year Josh doesn't make big strides you have to consider cutting bait. Don't go down with the ship. Otherwise you may end up not in QB purgatory, but QB limbo instead. Neither works. 1 2
Fan in San Diego Posted January 14, 2020 Posted January 14, 2020 6 hours ago, entropyrules said: Year 3 will be the deal maker or breaker with Allen...Darn I hope he hope he makes an improvement as at my age I only have one or two more cycles of waiting for the Bills to find a QB...overall great article summing up his progression Get Josh some more WR's! Sheesh we have been weak at WR forever now! Love the Beasley signing, now get a deep threat and some big bodies that can catch the ball. 1
John from Riverside Posted January 14, 2020 Posted January 14, 2020 Just now, reddogblitz said: Or, if you hang onto your QB that you drafted high too long thinking he just about to hit it, you end up like the Dolphins with Ryan Tannehill or the Bucs with Crab Legs. If next year Josh doesn't make big strides you have to consider cutting bait. Don't go down with the ship. Otherwise you may end up not in QB purgatory, but QB limbo instead. Neither works. There is NOTHING to indicate that Josh Allen is going to show regression.....all arrows are pointing up This whole topic is frankily stupid 1
Jrb1979 Posted January 14, 2020 Posted January 14, 2020 5 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: It IS good enough And if you abandon a QB that you draft and is getting better year to year in every category....then you deserve the decades of failure that this team has endured. We have a QB with talent.....give him what he needs to succeed and stop hitting the ***** reset button on this team A little each season isn't good enough. I get that a lot of you don't want to start over again but by year 3 Allen should make a big jump. He should be in the top half for QBs. If not they should start looking for better. Why so many Bills fans have low expectations is beyond me. 1 1
reddogblitz Posted January 14, 2020 Posted January 14, 2020 Just now, John from Riverside said: There is NOTHING to indicate that Josh Allen is going to show regression.....all arrows are pointing up This whole topic is frankily stupid It's called contingency planning. I'm thinking Beane does this too. Or at least I hope he does.
Gordio Posted January 14, 2020 Posted January 14, 2020 21 minutes ago, chongli said: EJ Manuel says hi. EJ Manuel did not have nowhere near the talent that Allen has. Nice try though.
John from Riverside Posted January 14, 2020 Posted January 14, 2020 Just now, Jrb1979 said: A little each season isn't good enough. I get that a lot of you don't want to start over again but by year 3 Allen should make a big jump. He should be in the top half for QBs. If not they should start looking for better. Why so many Bills fans have low expectations is beyond me. It isnt A LITTLE.....for christ sake LOOK IT UP Just now, reddogblitz said: It's called contingency planning. I'm thinking Beane does this too. Or at least I hope he does. I am not saying dont draft a QB under any circumstances......but those high picks need to be used to help our CURRENT qb 3
Big Gun Posted January 14, 2020 Posted January 14, 2020 7 hours ago, entropyrules said: Year 3 will be the deal maker or breaker with Allen...Darn I hope he hope he makes an improvement as at my age I only have one or two more cycles of waiting for the Bills to find a QB...overall great article summing up his progression It is is not. People gotta stop with this, Josh is hear for the long haul. He would have to be way worse than his rookie year for a couple more years before they even thought about replacing him. McBeane will sink or swim with Allen and they aren't going to replace him that easy.
BigBillsFan Posted January 14, 2020 Posted January 14, 2020 2 hours ago, H2o said: I would like to remind everyone that Ben Ro was worse in his 3rd year than in his first two seasons. After that he had a really good 4th year and then a down 5th. After that he sort of leveled out. http://www.nfl.com/player/benroethlisberger/2506109/careerstats This is a great reminder. I looked up Big Ben this year as well. I think the differences aren't much to be honest. He didn't hit his stride as a big time QB until year 6. Steelers football was mostly a running game with 20-25 passes. Ben was pretty much a game manager with a deep ball to keep the safeties honest for the 1st 5 years. I don't think no one would care if this was Josh if they committed to the run and we had 1 bruiser, Motor, and a good 3rd guy not named DiMarco. Steelers rookie year for Ben he was on the 2nd best rushing team:https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/rushing-yards-per-game?date=2005-02-07 Year 2 5th best https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/rushing-yards-per-game?date=2006-02-06 Year 3 was his worst year so far for completion % and INTs and they were 11th https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/rushing-yards-per-game?date=2007-02-05 Year 4 Good year they were 5th againhttps://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/rushing-yards-per-game?date=2008-02-04 His first big year was 2009 in year 6 and then they were 19th https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/rushing-yards-per-game?date=2010-02-08 Maybe that is the formula: -Draft for strong defense and road grinder offense -Let the QB get his head straight but having a top 5 rushing attack -Get the right coaching -Let the game become natural -Be patient for development With that strong running game, great defense, and game manager with short passes they made the Super Bowl in year 2. Who did they play? Seattle the 2nd best running team with a strong defense. 4
2003Contenders Posted January 14, 2020 Posted January 14, 2020 It is hard to fairly evaluate Josh Allen based purely on statistics for a number of reasons: 1. The conservative mindset of the coaching staff, in which case 300-yard passing games will always be a rarity. 2. The fact that his rushing ability is such a big part of his overall game. That said, there are certainly areas in which he needs to continue to improve in terms of decision-making and accuracy. Bill Parcells once described the 4-year cycle for QBs. Year 1: Rookie season; You are looking for "potential"; however, it is unfair to fully assess a young, rookie QB. Year 2: Given the baseline that was provided in Year 1, are there signs of improvement? If not, then time to move on. Year 3: Should be starting to put things together and play a role in putting the team in playoff position. If not, then time to move on. Year 4: Should know by now whether the QB is a Franchise QB. If he is, you are set. If he isn't, can you still win with him? If the answer is, yes, then start thinking about an upgrade -- if not, then time to move on. I think that Josh has actually been on the fast track with thumbs up for both Year 2 and Year 3 based on the Parcells criteria. With continued improvement (and upgrades to supporting offensive talent), I am hopeful for once and for all that he will prove to be the Franchise QB (i.e. able to keep up in a shootout against an opposing high-powered offense) that the team has been longing for since Kelly. 2 2
chongli Posted January 14, 2020 Posted January 14, 2020 19 minutes ago, Gordio said: EJ Manuel did not have nowhere near the talent that Allen has. Nice try though. Bleacher Report disagrees with you: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1621734-why-ej-manuel-was-the-best-pick-in-the-2013-nfl-draft
John from Riverside Posted January 14, 2020 Posted January 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, chongli said: Bleacher Report disagrees with you: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1621734-why-ej-manuel-was-the-best-pick-in-the-2013-nfl-draft That frankly doesnt mean much Josh Allen came out of a strong QB draft....EJ Manuel came out of a weak one
Gordio Posted January 14, 2020 Posted January 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, chongli said: Bleacher Report disagrees with you: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1621734-why-ej-manuel-was-the-best-pick-in-the-2013-nfl-draft Well if Bleacher Report says it, it must be true. Manual was a horrible pick, Buddy Nix boxed himself into a corner that year and was bound and determined to pick a QB, even though by most experts opinion was the worst draft for QBs in over a decade. Anybody that truly watched FSU when Manuel was there could of told you he would be a bust. There are a few FSU grads on this board & they all said Manuel was not the answer. I will take their word over BR. 3
Mango Posted January 14, 2020 Posted January 14, 2020 6 hours ago, JMF2006 said: I some how doubt year 3 is a make or break year you don't draft a QB at 7th overall and toss him to the curb that easily. 6 hours ago, entropyrules said: respectfully disagree..they certainly won't cut him until his contract is up but if he regresses or stays the same next year (assuming he has a better Cast of O characters) they will be on the hunt in the 2021 draft for a QB. it may be a 3rd round flyer but they are not going into his 4th year after no progress wishing and hoping he makes some miraculous leap without at least prepping for his departure at the end of the contract. Now having said that if they become like that Ravens team with Dilfer where the D dominated and the QB was just OK then you are probably right they'll go into 2023 where then they will draft a QB. This is a "what if" It will be in the form of either: 1. Not taking the 5th year option 2. Not offering him a new contract (compared to starting QB salary/contract negotiations) Or at least not one that they can't get out of/afford while looking for a replacement. They will then be looking for contingency plans whether it be through the draft, FA, or trade. I have said before, I like Josh, he is electric. When it comes time to re-sign in 4 years, he needs to make HUGE strides to get that contract. Take a look at this roster and subtract $30-40M of players from it. Then ask if we can win 10+ games every year with it. 4 1
chongli Posted January 14, 2020 Posted January 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: That frankly doesnt mean much Josh Allen came out of a strong QB draft....EJ Manuel came out of a weak one Really?? EJ's QB rating was 77.7 his first year, while Josh''s was only 67.9.
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