Sammy Watkins: New Teams, Same Bad Attitude

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, The Jokeman said:

He didn't even dress yesterday which says something about him as one would think he's better than their other RB unless Reid knows he can get more out of the other players (see play on ST or better speed etc). I'm not trying to hate Shady as loved his time here but he might not be what he used to. 

 

He was reported as out (Illness).  Until proven otherwise, I'm gonna take that at face value. 

 

He was reported "DNP" Weds and Thurs and "LP" Friday, so it's not like it was a surprise healthy scratch or something.

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

SF tanked.

 

Period. This team didn't. Apples and oranges. Tanking works, and San Francisco proves it.

 

 

 

 

Tanked...when?  Lynch and Shanahan got there in 2017.  They inherited a team with Brian Hoyer as a week 1 starter.  He crapped the bed and CJ Beathard was next up.  He stunk too and then they pulled off the trade for Jimmy G and won out the season--5 games in a row and, going from 17 ppg to 29 ppg.

 

The next season, JG was out for the season before the end of game 3. The result was predictable 4-12.

 

So who tanked these 49ers?  And when?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Tanked...when?  Lynch and Shanahan got there in 2017.  They inherited a team with Brian Hoyer as a week 1 starter.  He crapped the bed and CJ Beathard was next up.  He stunk too and then they pulled off the trade for Jimmy G and won out the season--5 games in a row and, going from 17 ppg to 29 ppg.

 

The next season, JG was out for the season before the end of game 3. The result was predictable 4-12.

 

So who tanked these 49ers?  And when?

 

they had FOUR 10+ loss seasons before this one.

 

that's FOUR consecutive drafts of picking VERY high in the draft. All those picks built that beastly DL they're fielding.

 

 

[thenorthremembers]

1 hour ago, Figster said:

I'm a fan of Sammy Watkins and will continue to be, thats my business. Getting shuffled around is a big part of the problem IMO. Sammy Watkins loved Buffalo, wanted to come and play for the Buffal Bills. 

 

Amazing glad a talented player doesn't play for Buffalo? A player who could and in all likelihood would have helped the Bills go deeper into the playoffs?

 

I'm not the one that sounds jilted...

The Bills didnt win a thing when Sammy was here.   I think he is an overrated player, and I am amazingly glad they didnt keep him because there is no way I'd want the Bills to pay $16 Million Dollars a year for a oft injured number 2 wideout. 

 

If your a fan of the guy fine, thats your business.   But, when anyone gets on here and tells me they are upset the Bills didnt keep a guy who makes top ten money at his position but hasnt ranked in the top 40 of any statistical relevant stat in the last two years, I am going to mention that maybe the Bills made the right decision.   The guy is a prime candidate to be released this offseason, the Chiefs are up against the Cap and need to make space, and Watkins has the biggest cap savings of anyone on the team right now.

 

I am not jilted in the least just not so blinded by my personal like for a player that I cant see the reality.   Watkins career statistics are on par with Peerless Price, he is a borderline number 2 wideout who will most likely be on his 4th team in 7 years if he doesn't grossly restructure his contract.  Also, If I remember correctly  there was a strong sense "King Me" didnt want to stay in Buffalo for his 2nd contract. 

Edited January 20, 2020 by thenorthremembers

[Big Turk]

Attitude looked pretty good when he capped off KC's scoring with a 60 yard bomb for a TD and a SB appearance.

 

The problem is that Watkins can be very effective when he is surrounded with other good WR's on a team but he has trouble consistently being THE WR on a team.  And that is what is so maddening because with his talent he should be Hopkins like. 

 

Crazy part was his 2 best statistical years were the first 2 with the Bills including the only 1000 yard season he has.

Edited January 20, 2020 by matter2003

[Billsfan1972]

13 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

The Bills didnt win a thing when Sammy was here.   I think he is an overrated player, and I am amazingly glad they didnt keep him because there is no way I'd want the Bills to pay $16 Million Dollars a year for a oft injured number 2 wideout. 

 

If your a fan of the guy fine, thats your business.   But, when anyone gets on here and tells me they are upset the Bills didnt keep a guy who makes top ten money at his position but hasnt ranked in the top 40 of any statistical relevant stat in the last two years, I am going to mention that maybe the Bills made the right decision.   The guy is a prime candidate to be released this offseason, the Chiefs are up against the Cap and need to make space, and Watkins has the biggest cap savings of anyone on the team right now.

 

I am not jilted in the least just not so blinded by my personal like for a player that I cant see the reality.   Watkins career statistics are on par with Peerless Price, he is a borderline number 2 wideout who will most likely be on his 4th team in 7 years if he doesn't grossly restructure his contract.  Also, If I remember correctly  there was a strong sense "King Me" didnt want to stay in Buffalo for his 2nd contract. 

He was not paid $16,000,000/yr as a Bill......  That's the damn point.  Year 4 when he was healthy the Bills could have made that decision, but gave him away for next to nothing (oh and then traded for Matthews and Benjamin).  Tell me how those two replacements worked (and if they're still in the league)????

[thebandit27]

15 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

The Bills didnt win a thing when Sammy was here.   I think he is an overrated player, and I am amazingly glad they didnt keep him because there is no way I'd want the Bills to pay $16 Million Dollars a year for a oft injured number 2 wideout. 

 

If your a fan of the guy fine, thats your business.   But, when anyone gets on here and tells me they are upset the Bills didnt keep a guy who makes top ten money at his position but hasnt ranked in the top 40 of any statistical relevant stat in the last two years, I am going to mention that maybe the Bills made the right decision.   The guy is a prime candidate to be released this offseason, the Chiefs are up against the Cap and need to make space, and Watkins has the biggest cap savings of anyone on the team right now.

 

I am not jilted in the least just not so blinded by my personal like for a player that I cant see the reality.   Watkins career statistics are on par with Peerless Price, he is a borderline number 2 wideout who will most likely be on his 4th team in 7 years if he doesn't grossly restructure his contract.  Also, If I remember correctly  there was a strong sense "King Me" didnt want to stay in Buffalo for his 2nd contract. 

The biggest gripe from folks that wanted to keep Watkins is that he would still be on this team without a long-term commitment had they not traded him.

 

They could have kept him on his rookie deal for 2017. They could have picked up his rookie 5th year option for 2018. They could’ve transition tagged him for 2019. No long-term commitment, no dead money; just a simple series of transactions with absolutely no risk of losing him.

[Big Turk]

11 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

The biggest gripe from folks that wanted to keep Watkins is that he would still be on this team without a long-term commitment had they not traded him.

 

They could have kept him on his rookie deal for 2017. They could have picked up his rookie 5th year option for 2018. They could’ve transition tagged him for 2019. No long-term commitment, no dead money; just a simple series of transactions with absolutely no risk of losing him.

 

They made a decision that he wasn't one of the guys who was going to help turn the team around, which meant either they felt he wasn't on board mentally with them or he wasn't the right fit with his attitude, or that they just didn't want to pay him.  Either way, it doesn't matter. What's done is done. Watkins is a decent player in the league as a complementary player but he was supposed to be the next D Hopkins when he came into the NFL and he hasn't even been close except a few game stretch with the Bills where he was unstoppable.  Compare that to Mike Evans who we could have drafted instead with 6 straight 1000 yard seasons, 3 of them over 1200 yards.

 

Basically based on stats, Watkins is a faster version of Kelvin Benjamin, who also had a 1000 yard season and a 900 and change season in his first 2 seasons and then never came close again.

 

With his talent, that isn't good enough. Something is not right there. He should dominate on an every play basis but it only flashes a few times a game.

Edited January 20, 2020 by matter2003

[Billsfan1972]

1 hour ago, matter2003 said:

 

They made a decision that he wasn't one of the guys who was going to help turn the team around, which meant either they felt he wasn't on board mentally with them or he wasn't the right fit with his attitude, or that they just didn't want to pay him.  Either way, it doesn't matter. What's done is done. Watkins is a decent player in the league as a complementary player but he was supposed to be the next D Hopkins when he came into the NFL and he hasn't even been close except a few game stretch with the Bills where he was unstoppable.  Compare that to Mike Evans who we could have drafted instead with 6 straight 1000 yard seasons, 3 of them over 1200 yards.

 

With his talent, that isn't good enough. Something is not right there. He should dominate on an every play basis but it only flashes a few times a game.

Again 2015 he was over 1000 & played only 13 games (1300 pro-rated)......  Who knows what would have happened as he had worked with TT in the offseason (it was said) prior to the 2017 season.

 

No one knows, but I'll bet if cut, he'll again sign at north of $10,000,000/yr.  I'd be worried he signs with NYJ or Miami......?

Edited January 20, 2020 by Billsfan1972

[Big Turk]

8 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Again 2015 he was over 1000 & played only 13 games (1300 pro-rated)......  Who knows what would have happened as he had worked with TT in the offseason (it was said) prior to the 2017 season.

 

No one knows, but I'll bet if cut, he'll again sign at north of $10,000,000.  I'd be worried he signs with NYJ or Miami......?

 

I wouldn't be worried at all if he signed with either of them. He had "Mahomes and Auto" throwing to him the past 2 years and put up 519 yards and 673 yards.  Let's get out of fantasyland dude...the fantasyland of "oh what could have been with a player who has all the talent in the world but isn't willing to work hard enough to be great".

 

You think we had D Hopkins, because he has D Hopkins talent but he doesn't have D Hopkins desire to be great.  That's what you and so many others like you fail to see. Physical talent in the NFL isn't enough. Watkins is happy enough to just be there and have a good paying job, he isn't concerned with putting up 1500 yards and dominating his opponents.  And according to many former NFL players, this type of attitude is far more prevalent than you think.

Edited January 20, 2020 by matter2003

[Billsfan1972]

25 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

 

I wouldn't be worried at all if he signed with either of them. He had "Mahomes and Auto" throwing to him the past 2 years and put up 519 yards and 673 yards.  Let's get out of fantasyland dude...the fantasyland of "oh what could have been with a player who has all the talent in the world but isn't willing to work hard enough to be great".

 

You think we had D Hopkins, because he has D Hopkins talent but he doesn't have D Hopkins desire to be great.  That's what you and so many others like you fail to see. Physical talent in the NFL isn't enough. Watkins is happy enough to just be there and have a good paying job, he isn't concerned with putting up 1500 yards and dominating his opponents.  And according to many former NFL players, this type of attitude is far more prevalent than you think.

And you know the inside story???  You read Sammy Watkins psychological profile?  

 

You maybe 100% right, but I just wanted to see him in 2017 as a Bill & made that decision for myself.

 

Go find the posts with all the experts after the LA Rams that he'd by lucky to sign for $7-8,000,000 & yet there was a bidding war & he got $14,000,000/yr.  

 

Again what makes McD & Beane so much smarter?

 

Are you so happy with the 30, 29 & 24th ranked Offense under McD?

[Big Turk]

4 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

And you know the inside story???  You read Sammy Watkins psychological profile?  

 

You maybe 100% right, but I just wanted to see him in 2017 as a Bill & made that decision for myself.

 

Go find the posts with all the experts after the LA Rams that he'd by lucky to sign for $7-8,000,000 & yet there was a bidding war & he got $14,000,000/yr.  

 

Again what makes McD & Beane so much smarter?

 

Are you so happy with the 30, 29 & 24th ranked Offense under McD?

 

Not saying I am happy at all with it but I am also not overpaying for a guy who has 1500 yard talent but puts up 650 with the NFL MVP throwing him the ball in a wide open offense that throws the ball far more than the Bills do. Especially when Hill was suspended for as long as he was this year and Watkins had the chance to take over as a top target and only took advantage of it for the first game where he caught 3 TD's and then didn't catch another one all year until yesterday.  That's what I am talking about.  There is no reason why Watkins should catch 3 TD's in game 1 of the year and then go 17 games before catching another with his talent.  They will address the position in the draft...maybe twice with how deep the class is and hopefully they pick the right guy(s) and not another Zay.

Edited January 20, 2020 by matter2003

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

35 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

 

I wouldn't be worried at all if he signed with either of them. He had "Mahomes and Auto" throwing to him the past 2 years and put up 519 yards and 673 yards.  Let's get out of fantasyland dude...the fantasyland of "oh what could have been with a player who has all the talent in the world but isn't willing to work hard enough to be great".

 

You think we had D Hopkins, because he has D Hopkins talent but he doesn't have D Hopkins desire to be great.  That's what you and so many others like you fail to see. Physical talent in the NFL isn't enough. Watkins is happy enough to just be there and have a good paying job, he isn't concerned with putting up 1500 yards and dominating his opponents.  And according to many former NFL players, this type of attitude is far more prevalent than you think.

 

He's come up big for KC in the 4 playoff games he's played with them 22 catches, 366 yards, 6 plays of 20 yards or more on only 28 targets. That's coming up big when it matters & is hard to do with the massive amount of talent on KC who spreads the wealth. If he's on the field for Bills against the Texans with Brown & Beasley, we win and advance to play KC.

 

 

[Big Turk]

2 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

He's come up big for KC in the 4 playoff games he's played with them 22 catches, 366 yards, 6 plays of 20 yards or more on only 28 targets. That's coming up big when it matters & is hard to do with the massive amount of talent on KC who spreads the wealth. If he's on the field for Bills against the Texans with Brown & Beasley, we win and advance to play KC.

 

 

 

They also throw the ball 50 times a game

[teef]

13 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

And you know the inside story???  You read Sammy Watkins psychological profile?  

 

You maybe 100% right, but I just wanted to see him in 2017 as a Bill & made that decision for myself.

 

Go find the posts with all the experts after the LA Rams that he'd by lucky to sign for $7-8,000,000 & yet there was a bidding war & he got $14,000,000/yr.  

 

Again what makes McD & Beane so much smarter?

 

Are you so happy with the 30, 29 & 24th ranked Offense under McD?

so...is this team in better shape than it was 3 years ago?  just curious about your opinion.

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

3 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

 

They also throw the ball 50 times a game

 

Well we nearly hit that against the Texans(48), didn't we. Sammy is only getting 7 targets a game, but averaging over 90 yards a game in the 4 playoff games. Beats anything our WRs did in their playoff game, Brown had 8 targets and Duke had 10.

[Big Turk]

1 minute ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

Well we nearly hit that against the Texans(48), didn't we. Sammy is only getting 7 targets a game, but averaging over 90 yards a game in the 4 playoff games. Beats anything our WRs did in their playoff game, Brown had 8 targets and Duke had 10.

 

Yeah, the other team also didn't have Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelce to be worrying about either. 

[billsrul120]

9 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

He's come up big for KC in the 4 playoff games he's played with them 22 catches, 366 yards, 6 plays of 20 yards or more on only 28 targets. That's coming up big when it matters & is hard to do with the massive amount of talent on KC who spreads the wealth. If he's on the field for Bills against the Texans with Brown & Beasley, we win and advance to play KC.

 

 

He has come up big but you can't ignore the role he is in.  He is protected from having to face the opponent's best defenders by having Kelce and Hill on the field and Hardman who had a similar season.  Easy to look good when you are drafted 4th overall and have the luxury of being the offense's 4th best weapon.

 

That being said this is why we need more depth.  The playoffs is when you will see matchups further down the depth chart making a more significant impact on the outcome.  

[thebandit27]

57 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Again 2015 he was over 1000 & played only 13 games (1300 pro-rated)......  Who knows what would have happened as he had worked with TT in the offseason (it was said) prior to the 2017 season.

 

No one knows, but I'll bet if cut, he'll again sign at north of $10,000,000.  I'd be worried he signs with NYJ or Miami......?

Baltimore would make a TON of sense

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

3 minutes ago, billsrul120 said:

He has come up big but you can't ignore the role he is in.  He is protected from having to face the opponent's best defenders by having Kelce and Hill on the field and Hardman who had a similar season.  Easy to look good when you are drafted 4th overall and have the luxury of being the offense's 4th best weapon.

 

That being said this is why we need more depth.  The playoffs is when you will see matchups further down the depth chart making a more significant impact on the outcome.  

 

I don't recall the other games, but I know Gilmore covered Sammy the whole game in their playoff game last year, I just watched the replay of the game on the NFL Network Friday. The doubled Hill & Kelce with other guys. In that game he had 8 catches for 114 yards against what most people believe to be the best corner in the game.