Sammy Watkins: New Teams, Same Bad Attitude

[Teddy KGB]

8 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

He does not have the mentality of a 1.....he gets paid like a 1.....I would take him like I would take Corey Davis...but Davis would definately be cheaper

Corey Davis kinda stinks.  
 

7 hours ago, QCity said:

Watkins Whiners have been patiently waiting since his last TD to bump this thread. That was week 1, by the way.

 

well he has 200 plus yards in 2 playoff games, the games that matter.    Ya kno ? 
 

 

[GunnerBill]

14 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Disingenuous. The niners had three consecutive 10 loss seasons prior to this year. There was nothing quick or easy about their turnaround.

 

In fairness only two of those were this regime. But they had 4 pretty sucky seasons before this one - Tomsula x1, Kelly x1, Shanahan x2. 

 

I think the difference between the 9ers and the Bills is that they bottomed out. It is hard to find parallels for what the Bills have done because they have basically had a full rebuild in 3 years without bottoming out. Now that Zo has retired how many guys are left from the 2016 roster? Hughes and Shaq (who is an impending FA)? Teams traditionally don't manage to have that sort of turnaround without hitting the bottom even if they then have an impressive bounce back like the 49ers have this year.

 

The reason the Bills never bottomed out is that they are too well coached. McDermott has proven himself very adept at getting the most out of mediocre, then bad, then slightly above average rosters. I do understand those questioning "can he get more out of a good roster and make us contenders?" because that is yet to be proven. That is where it becomes more incumbent on Brandon Beane in my view to give him that roster. In his own words the job he has done in doing that on the offensive side in particular has not been good enough. The arguments about Sammy should now be consigned to history but they likely won't be until Beane gives McDermott a player of equivalent talent to put on the field. 

[Cripple Creek]

8 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Do you think McDermott isn't a capable coach?

Apparently you do not believe so.

 

McDermott and Beane have talked about the need to rid the roster of certain players.  Watkins was one of those.  If you believe that McDermott is a capable coach then you put aside your own asinine, selfish ideas and you get past it, like an adult. 

 

Unless you were inside Whaley's head you have no idea why Mahomes was essentially traded to KC.  Did Whaley have him rated highly?  Did McDermott?  Do you expect McDermott, coming off a season as DC and entering a new building for a new job to have, in hindsight, properly evaluated Mahomes? If you believe that McDermott is a capable coach then put aside your own asinine, selfish ideas and get past it, like an adult. 

 

Everything should have been done to try to retain Gilmore.  Do you know it wasn't ? I certainly do not, but, I don't have highly placed sources.  That said, if you believe that McDermott is a capable coach then you put aside your own asinine, selfish ideas and you get past it, like an adult.

 

 

In short, get over it. Live in the moment, not the past.

[Billsfan1972]

37 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

A 2nd rounder (plus EJ Gaines) at that point in time is pry the best they could get given his injury history and the fact that his rookie deal was almost up.  They may have lost him for nothing if they don't make that trade.  The Rams wasted a 2nd round pick on him.  He hasn't produced #1 WR numbers since 2015 even though he's being paid as one.  He's a frustrating player as he shows flashes of greatness but is woefully inconsistent.

Would have rather seen what he could have done for 2017 as the Bills #1 receiver.

 

I really don't know what happened in LA as he should have been the #1 option, but was not.  Going to KC he was behind Hill & Kelce & after week 2 was not overly targeted (6/game).  You can only catch when thrown to.  

 

Even his catches yesterday he wasn't the primary target on many of them. 

[Billsfan1972]

7 hours ago, QCity said:

Watkins Whiners have been patiently waiting since his last TD to bump this thread. That was week 1, by the way.

No this thread was started by a Watkins hater wanting to stir up old threads/wounds & explain why he was traded and that he has a bad attitude.  

 

Watkins fans, and yep as the #4 pick by Buffalo I was excited for a stud #1 receiver who was traded for nothing to do with his on-field play, it was frustrating.

 

Again for all who disliked Watkins (probably only because the Bills traded up to get him, like they did with Allen), what did he do on the field that warranted him being traded & not have played for the Bills in 2017? 

Edited January 20, 2020 by Billsfan1972

[Boca BIlls]

1 out of every 17 games... Ain't bad?

10 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

No this thread was started by a Watkins hater wanting to stir up old threads/wounds & explain why he was traded and that he has a bad attitude.  

 

Watkins fans, and yep as the #4 pick by Buffalo I was excited for a stud #1 receiver who was traded for nothing to do with his on-field play, it was frustrating.

 

Again for all who disliked Watkins (probably only because the Bills traded up to get him, like they did with Allen), what did he do on the field that warranted him being traded & not have played for the Bills in 2017? 

Stopped playing on a sure TD run and cost the Bills a TD against the Jets.

Edited January 20, 2020 by Boca BIlls

[FireChans]

36 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

In fairness only two of those were this regime. But they had 4 pretty sucky seasons before this one - Tomsula x1, Kelly x1, Shanahan x2. 

 

I think the difference between the 9ers and the Bills is that they bottomed out. It is hard to find parallels for what the Bills have done because they have basically had a full rebuild in 3 years without bottoming out. Now that Zo has retired how many guys are left from the 2016 roster? Hughes and Shaq (who is an impending FA)? Teams traditionally don't manage to have that sort of turnaround without hitting the bottom even if they then have an impressive bounce back like the 49ers have this year.

 

The reason the Bills never bottomed out is that they are too well coached. McDermott has proven himself very adept at getting the most out of mediocre, then bad, then slightly above average rosters. I do understand those questioning "can he get more out of a good roster and make us contenders?" because that is yet to be proven. That is where it becomes more incumbent on Brandon Beane in my view to give him that roster. In his own words the job he has done in doing that on the offensive side in particular has not been good enough. The arguments about Sammy should now be consigned to history but they likely won't be until Beane gives McDermott a player of equivalent talent to put on the field. 

The less talked about move that McD made early was letting Robert Woods leave the building. 2 consecutive 1000 yards seasons with the Rams. Hard worker. Good blocker. 

 

Watkins didn’t really pan out and was a good trade away but boy oh boy could the Bills and Allen used Woods in a big way. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

24 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said:

In short, get over it. Live in the moment, not the past.

 

Great advice. Wish more people would heed it.

 

18 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

No this thread was started by a Watkins hater wanting to stir up old threads/wounds & explain why he was traded and that he has a bad attitude.  

 

Watkins fans, and yep as the #4 pick by Buffalo I was excited for a stud #1 receiver who was traded for nothing to do with his on-field play, it was frustrating.

 

Again for all who disliked Watkins (probably only because the Bills traded up to get him, like they did with Allen), what did he do on the field that warranted him being traded & not have played for the Bills in 2017? 

 

You mean when he was actually ON the field?

 

 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

32 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Again for all who disliked Watkins (probably only because the Bills traded up to get him, like they did with Allen), what did he do on the field that warranted him being traded & not have played for the Bills in 2017? 

if I had to summarize why people don’t like watkins:

 

1) gave up too much for him in the draft.

2) very talented, but didn’t match it production-wise

3) injury prone

4) beyond the injuries, there was a sense that he was soft and also not giving max effort

5) playing for the Rams, he was not good, yet people tried to claim he was playing the “decoy”

6) instead of going to be a number 1,

he signs up with KC to be their 4th offensive option (behind Hunt, Kelce, and Hill). 
7) extremely little production or targets on a prolific KC offense.

[Billsfan1972]

18 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Great advice. Wish more people would heed it.

 

 

You mean when he was actually ON the field?

 

 

He missed 8 games in 2016....  Players get injured.  He was recovered as far as we knew & ready for 2017.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WatkSa00.htm

 

In 2016 he had 1047 yards in 13 games, which is a 1300 yard pace....  

 

He averaged 16 yards a catch....  That was not too bad a start to a career.

3 minutes ago, JR in Pittsburgh said:

if I had to summarize why people don’t like watkins:

 

1) gave up too much for him in the draft.

2) very talented, but didn’t match it production-wise

3) injury prone

4) beyond the injuries, there was a sense that he was soft and also not giving max effort

5) playing for the Rams, he was not good, yet people tried to claim he was playing the “decoy”

6) instead of going to be a number 1,

he signs up with KC to be their 4th offensive option (behind Hunt, Kelce, and Hill). 
7) extremely little production or targets on a prolific KC offense.

And paid $14,000,000/yr....  Some pretty stupid GM's (oh & going to the SB btw), while the Bills are smarter then them?

 

He had injuries, not the first & not the last.....  Playing soft & not much effort.  Show me examples.  If not targeted enough it is difficult imo, but didn't see it & this is the false narrative people love to point to without any proof.

 

Actually look at KC, & frankly it is very much focused on Kelce.  

[oldmanfan]

I wish we had not traded him, but if we still had him it is very unlikely he would be the stud #1 WR we’d all like to have given his record since the trade.

[Billl]

12 hours ago, inaugural balls said:

 

Exactly 

 

Sammy is the difference? Try again. 

He’s got 366 receiving yards in the postseason so far the last 2 seasons.  You don’t think that would have made a difference in an overtime loss?

[Coach Tuesday]

Sammy has not lived up to his contract in KC and I expect they’ll move on this offseason (and I also suspect he ends up back in the AFC East).  He has never lived up to his draft status and remains a high ceiling player who doesn’t seem to want to or know how to be great.  Those things are true.

 

It is also true that the McBeane regime royally screwed up the offense and roster by failing to exercise his option and ultimately trading him away with nothing to fill the void - they still have not filled the void.

 

All of these things can be true.

 

Sammy is long gone and probably never coming back and probably never achieving his potential so that aspect of this discussion is moot and should be closed forever.

 

What remains relevant however are legitimate concerns about this regime’s priorities and competencies when it comes to building an offense.  Simply put the jury is still out.  Can they scout and draft good players on offense?  Other than Singletary they’ve mostly struck out.  Does their pro personnel department know how to find hidden gems like Mostert?  Do they have a sound and sustainable approach to winning games, which includes scoring points?  McD continues to give lip service to the need to score more points then insists on roster decisions that favor “leadership in the position groups” over talent on offense.  These guys were very fortunate not to screw up their raw rookie QB with the borderline criminally negligent supporting cast they surrounded him with (no line, QB coach, vet QB mentor in camp, decent WR, etc.) - Allen is an extremely tough, intelligent, resilient player and person which saved their hides because many other young QBs would’ve been permanently screwed up after that sh-show.  So that probably saved McBeane’s job.  We all need to hope they make the most of their mulligan and not mistake their good luck for skill or sound strategy.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

25 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

He missed 8 games in 2016....  Players get injured.  He was recovered as far as we knew & ready for 2017.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WatkSa00.htm

 

In 2016 he had 1047 yards in 13 games, which is a 1300 yard pace....  

 

He averaged 16 yards a catch....  That was not too bad a start to a career.

And paid $14,000,000/yr....  Some pretty stupid GM's (oh & going to the SB btw), while the Bills are smarter then them?

 

He had injuries, not the first & not the last.....  Playing soft & not much effort.  Show me examples.  If not targeted enough it is difficult imo, but didn't see it & this is the false narrative people love to point to without any proof.

 

Actually look at KC, & frankly it is very much focused on Kelce.  

 
I am just telling you why people don’t like him, so don’t necessarily agree with all the reasons I listed.

 

But it is amazing how little production and targets he has had in KC with defenses focusing so much on Kelce, Hill, and Hunt (when he was there).

He’ll be a cap cut after this season too based on how his contract is structured.

[SoCal Deek]

I’d still rather have Robert Woods.

[papazoid]

42 minutes ago, JR in Pittsburgh said:

if I had to summarize why people don’t like watkins:

 

1) gave up too much for him in the draft.

2) very talented, but didn’t match it production-wise

3) injury prone

4) beyond the injuries, there was a sense that he was soft and also not giving max effort

5) playing for the Rams, he was not good, yet people tried to claim he was playing the “decoy”

6) instead of going to be a number 1,

he signs up with KC to be their 4th offensive option (behind Hunt, Kelce, and Hill). 
7) extremely little production or targets on a prolific KC offense.

 

 

but other than this....sammy is destined for greatness....lol

 

this was the direct result of the decision maker (whaley) being on the hot seat...his future employment was at stake....he chose survival and risked mortgaging the teams future to save his own.

 

extend beane and mcclappity now.

[thebandit27]

58 minutes ago, JR in Pittsburgh said:

if I had to summarize why people don’t like watkins:

 

1) gave up too much for him in the draft.

2) very talented, but didn’t match it production-wise

3) injury prone

4) beyond the injuries, there was a sense that he was soft and also not giving max effort

5) playing for the Rams, he was not good, yet people tried to claim he was playing the “decoy”

6) instead of going to be a number 1,

he signs up with KC to be their 4th offensive option (behind Hunt, Kelce, and Hill). 
7) extremely little production or targets on a prolific KC offense.

To be fair:

1) it’s not his fault that someone traded up for him

2) he had 2100 yards and 15 TDs in his first 2 seasons. It was very similar to Julio’s first 2 NFL seasons, and I doubt anyone would’ve called him unproductive at that point.

3) absolutely; availability is numero uno

4) No idea why people thought that. He tried to play through a mismanaged injury and the team doc eventually shut him down.

5) he lead the Rams in TD receptions in his only season there

6) oh come on now, he went where he was offered the most money

7) legitimate question; maybe it’s a comfort level thing, and maybe he’s just not one of their 3 best targets. Confusing for sure.

[Billsfan1972]

16 minutes ago, papazoid said:

 

 

but other than this....sammy is destined for greatness....lol

 

this was the direct result of the decision maker (whaley) being on the hot seat...his future employment was at stake....he chose survival and risked mortgaging the teams future to save his own.

 

extend beane and mcclappity now.

Really????  Because they gutted the offense????  The 25-25 record???

 

They seem to have gotten it 50% right, with a very good defense and little thought to the other side.

 

If ever the jury was out it is this regime.  

[teef]

Just now, Billsfan1972 said:

Really????  Because they gutted the offense????  The 25-25 record???

 

They seem to have gotten it 50% right, with a very good defense and little thought to the other side.

 

If ever the jury was out it is this regime.  

you keep mentioning an overall 25-25 record, but forget to mention the two playoff appearances in 2 years.  why is that?

[papazoid]

3 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Really????  Because they gutted the offense????  The 25-25 record???

 

They seem to have gotten it 50% right, with a very good defense and little thought to the other side.

 

If ever the jury was out it is this regime.  

 

 

i value continuity.......constant regime change usually hurts teams

 

they inherited a dumpster fire.....too many bad contracts

 

they purged most while still making the playoffs 2 of 3 years.

 

they have close to $100 mil in cap space for 2020

 

sure they have missed on several players in the process

 

but the good far outweighs the bad.....retaining them for another 5 years each is an easy decision for me.