CBS compares Bills to Bears

[ngbills]

28 minutes ago, Hebert19 said:

Can do both and still do responsibly.  Example.  Aj green on a 1 year prove it and a rookie.  You get instant production next year while you have money...and if it works you extend green but you bridge until rookie is ready regardless.  Just like gore and Singletary.  And btw...no long term commitment to weigh in cap for future years.  Best of all worlds that our guys seem to get. 

With you on this. My concern lies in front loading contracts and all then are cap space goes away quickly with too much faith in status quo. 

[BringBackOrton]

Just now, billsfan1959 said:

I have been here for all of them. Of course they are all scrutinized. However, I stand by my assessment.

I just don’t think Josh gets it any worse than those dudes. In fact, I think he gets it easier, mostly because he HAS already proven more. 

 

Couple that with the fact that Josh was an absolutely polarizing prospect, with draft grades all over the place, and the current climate makes a ton of sense.

 

Case in point, @GunnerBill and @thebandit27 both put out STELLAR pre draft QB analyses, for the last few years at least. Both dudes’ are universally credible, have excellent football acumen and are as unbiased as you can get on this board. GB had a 3rd round grade on Allen and bandito had an early 1st on him. GB commenting that he has “natural inaccuracy” and bandit said he didn’t see that at all. Player analysis is subjective and imperfect.

 

Calling any and all analysis of Josh Allen, pre- and post-draft “lazy and superficial” just flies in the face reality. Are there some guys who saw a big goofy kid throw off his back foot once in Wyoming and said he was gonna suck? Sure. Are there documented examples of rational takes of Josh Allen’s flaws based on decent evidence and analysis as a college QB and as an NFL starter? You betcha.

[ngbills]

12 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Why leave Daboll and his ultra-coplicated offense off the list of people who would be on the hot seat if the Offense continues to sputter?

 

I'd think he'd be the first to go, and see from there.

I would hope so. I get the continuity thing but I would have seriously looked at not bringing him back this year. 

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Next year will be his 4th season as GM.  Yes he missed the first draft but was the architect of the roster dump we had which he hasn't replaced yet in regards to players of Woods/Watkins/Dareus caliber.  So it's on him regardless IMHO.  You don't get a pass for the whole season just because you weren't there for the draft. And he's the one who said it was only year 4 of the rebuild.

 

Oh Im not giving him any pass. I was mostly joking just because the math doesnt add up. When did he say that? During his post-season presser?

[reddogblitz]

10 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

Just can’t help yourself, can you?

 

Do you think it's prudent to trade up to draft a project QB in round 1 and then not supply him with quality WRs to throw to (again Brown and Bealey OK but not great)?  Atlanta traded up to get Julio Jones and they have Matt Ryan. Then with Jones they took Ridley in the first.  The same year the Bengals drafted Dalton they also drafted AJ Green. 

 

If we wanna be a team with a great QB and fancy pass offense, we need to massively upgrade at the position IMHO.

 

 

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, ngbills said:

I would hope so. I get the continuity thing but I would have seriously looked at not bringing him back this year. 

 

I'd also note that firing a GM and cleaning house because they miss on their first QB is a great way to keep your franchise bogged down in mediocrity (or worse).

 

HoF GM Ozzie Newsome's first QB was Kyle Boller. He whiffed hard. But the Ravens didnt fire him over it. They let him fix his mistake, bring in McNair to bridge the gap, and finally found Flacco. And while Flacco isnt a GOAT, he does have a Super Bowl win and Super Bowl MVP in his cabinet, so I think that's good enough. And part of that success was because the coaches and schemes and other players were able to stay in place.

 

I'm fine with moving on from Daboll. Even Allen in a couple years if he doesnt pan out. But dont clean out the FO and force a rebuild of the entire team over one position.

[billsfan1959]

9 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

I just don’t think Josh gets it any worse than those dudes. In fact, I think he gets it easier, mostly because he HAS already proven more. 

 

Couple that with the fact that Josh was an absolutely polarizing prospect, with draft grades all over the place, and the current climate makes a ton of sense.

 

Case in point, @GunnerBill and @thebandit27 both put out STELLAR pre draft QB analyses, for the last few years at least. Both dudes’ are universally credible, have excellent football acumen and are as unbiased as you can get on this board. GB had a 3rd round grade on Allen and bandito had an early 1st on him. GB commenting that he has “natural inaccuracy” and bandit said he didn’t see that at all. Player analysis is subjective and imperfect.

 

Calling any and all analysis of Josh Allen, pre- and post-draft “lazy and superficial” just flies in the face reality. Are there some guys who saw a big goofy kid throw off his back foot once in Wyoming and said he was gonna suck? Sure. Are there documented examples of rational takes of Josh Allen’s flaws based on decent evidence and analysis as a college QB and as an NFL starter? You betcha.

I didn’t call all of the analyses of Allen during the draft process lazy and superficial. I said much of the national narrative coming out of the draft was lazy and superficial - and has continued to be perpetuated.

 

That is my view. Feel free to differ.

4 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Do you think it's prudent to trade up to draft a project QB in round 1 and then not supply him with quality WRs to throw to (again Brown and Bealey OK but not great)?  Atlanta traded up to get Julio Jones and they have Matt Ryan. Then with Jones they took Ridley in the first.  The same year the Bengals drafted Dalton they also drafted AJ Green. 

 

If we wanna be a team with a great QB and fancy pass offense, we need to massively upgrade at the position IMHO.

 

 

I agree 100% with the need to upgrade around him and if they want Allen to take that next step they better do it this off-season. My response was to your reference to Allen as “Wonder boy.“ It sounded a bit condescending. If that wasn’t your intent my apologies. I agree with the rest of what you say

Edited January 13, 2020 by billsfan1959

[DrDawkinstein]

2 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Do you think it's prudent to trade up to draft a project QB in round 1 and then not supply him with quality WRs to throw to (again Brown and Bealey OK but not great)?  Atlanta traded up to get Julio Jones and they have Matt Ryan. Then with Jones they took Ridley in the first.  The same year the Bengals drafted Dalton they also drafted AJ Green. 

 

If we wanna be a team with a great QB and fancy pass offense, we need to massively upgrade at the position IMHO.

 

 

 

Ryan was drafted in 2008, and Jones not until 2011, so that timing is similar to what the Bills would do this year. And Ridley not until 2018, so I hope we can worry about drafting Josh new WR talent 10 years into his career.

 

AJ Green literally made Dalton's career though. That's for sure.

[ngbills]

6 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Oh Im not giving him any pass. I was mostly joking just because the math doesnt add up. When did he say that? During his post-season presser?

Post season presser. This it was a question about the roster and free agents, etc. 

"We are still early in this going into year four of a total rebuild, so I think Sean [McDermott] and I will get there with that, but I can’t say this will definitely be a year that’ll happen."

[reddogblitz]

15 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

I agree 100% with the need to upgrade around him and if they want Allen to take that next step they better do it this off-season. My response was to your reference to Allen as “Wonder boy.“ It sounded a bit condescending. If that wasn’t your intent my apologies. I agree with the rest of what you say

 

It is kindof.  I call him that sometimes because of how the NASCAR drivers called Jeff Gordon "Wonder Boy" with thick redneck accents when he first started cuz of all the hype and high expectations when he just started. I feel the same with the way Josh is talked about here. He has done some nice things but has come nowhere near proving he is THE GUY that can even get us a playoff win even.  If he does turn into that guy,  it will still fit.

 

I am pulling for him to succeed cuz he's the Bills starter.  I remain unconvinced however at this point in time.  Getting us to the playoffs is a good start.  He is still a HUGE question mark IMHO.  And the way Beane is slowly stocking up the offensive talent running an ill suited Offense is not helping.

Edited January 13, 2020 by reddogblitz

[billsfan1959]

2 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

It is kindof.  I call him that sometimes because of how the NASCAR drivers called Jeff Gordon "Wonder Boy" with thick redneck accents when he first started cuz of all the hype and high expectations when he just started. I feel the same with the way Josh is talked about here. He has done some nice things but has come nowhere near proving he is THE GUY that can even get us a playoff win even.  If he does turn into that guy,  it will still fit.

 

I am pulling for him to succeed cuz he's the Bills starter.  I remain unconvinced however at this point in time.  He is still a HUGE question mark IMHO.  And the way Beane is slowly stocking up the offensive talent running an ill suited Offense is not helping.

Gotcha. Well, I am 100% in agreement they need to drastically upgrade the talent around him and they better get some major pieces this off-season. I think with continued improvement of Allen’s play and some real talent added at receiver, the offense will continue to evolve.