JGMcD2 Posted January 12, 2020 Posted January 12, 2020 (edited) A friend of mine is a big Browns fan... we’ve been going back and forth basically since we hired McDermott about what team was doing things the right way... the Browns or the Bills. Well that’s pretty obvious now... but our football conversations have become much deeper. He REALLY wants McDaniels and I believe McDaniels isn’t a great candidate. I’m a big believer in career paths and trends... so I did some research to prove him wrong. I thought it would be interesting to share with a wider audience since I spent a little bit of time in it lol! The content is the “coaching tree” of both Belicheck and Reid (only reflects coordinators under them that went on to be HC). I picked these two because there are 8 coordinators under Belicheck and Reid that are currently NFL head coaches. If you include Reid and Belicheck their “trees” (as defined in this case) make up 32% of all NFL head coaches. BILL BELICHECK These are the 6 coordinators under Bill Belicheck to become head coaches (excluding Joe Judge who has yet to coach and NFL game) Romero Crennel, Josh McDaniels, Eric Mangini, Bill O’Brien, Matt Patricia, Brian Flores. Their combined record is 138-196-1. That is good for a .412 winning%. The only coach with a winning record is Bill O’Brien. Those coaches combined to coach 22 total seasons as a head coach. Over those 22 total seasons those coaches average roughly 6 wins and 9 losses. Those coaches made the playoffs 5 times in 22 seasons which is 23% of the time. Mangini (1) and O’Brien (4) are the only coaches to make playoff appearances. No coach has a winning record in the playoffs. ANDY REID These are the 5 coordinators under Andy Reid to become head coaches. Brad Childress, John Harbaugh, Doug Pederson, Sean McDermott, Matt Nagy. Their combined record is 240-170. That is good for a .585 winning%. No coach has a losing record in their career as a head coach. Those coaches have combined for 26 seasons as head coaches. Over those 26 seasons they average 9 wins and 6.6 losses. Only Brad Childress has more than 1 losing season in his career as a head coach. Those coaches made the playoffs 16 times in 26 seasons that’s good for 62%. Each coach has made the playoffs at least 1 time. Harbaugh (8), Pederson (3), Childress (2), McDermott (2), Nagy (1). They’re a combined 15-13 in the playoffs with 2 Super Bowl Champions (Harbaugh and Pederson). Matt Nagy won AP Coach of the Year in 2018. Edited January 12, 2020 by JGMcD2 2 2
Buffalo Junction Posted January 12, 2020 Posted January 12, 2020 You really want to be impressed look at the Holmgren coaching tree. I bring that up because I believe Reid - being a branch - likely approaches coaching hires and preparation in a similar manner. Pederson also played for Holmgren.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 12, 2020 Posted January 12, 2020 I dunno about “coaching trees” but I felt McDaniel behaved in a completely unprofessional manner with regard to the Colts job. He got 3 assistant coaches to resign and leave their jobs for him then he screwed them all over by backing out. He showed a total lack of integrity and I hope Karma is a beeeeoytch and bites him as he deserves. 8 1 1
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted January 12, 2020 Posted January 12, 2020 1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I dunno about “coaching trees” but I felt McDaniel behaved in a completely unprofessional manner with regard to the Colts job. He got 3 assistant coaches to resign and leave their jobs for him then he screwed them all over by backing out. He showed a total lack of integrity and I hope Karma is a beeeeoytch and bites him as he deserves. that’s where I am. If I am an owner, that is all I need to know about him. He would never be on my list of candidates. BTW, OP, I assume you don’t put Vrabel on BB’s tree because he only played under him? He is sort of an off-shoot because he was on O’Brien’s staff. 1
JGMcD2 Posted January 12, 2020 Author Posted January 12, 2020 (edited) 46 minutes ago, JR in Pittsburgh said: that’s where I am. If I am an owner, that is all I need to know about him. He would never be on my list of candidates. BTW, OP, I assume you don’t put Vrabel on BB’s tree because he only played under him? He is sort of an off-shoot because he was on O’Brien’s staff. Yes, that is correct! It would’ve gotten far too complex and convoluted had I tried to dive into every player, position coach relationship, at least for the time I wanted to spend on it haha. I thought coordinators was the easiest + I can’t recall an instance where anyone other than a coordinator was named a head coach. 50 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I dunno about “coaching trees” but I felt McDaniel behaved in a completely unprofessional manner with regard to the Colts job. He got 3 assistant coaches to resign and leave their jobs for him then he screwed them all over by backing out. He showed a total lack of integrity and I hope Karma is a beeeeoytch and bites him as he deserves. Then Frank Reich showed an incredible amount of integrity and retained all of them on his staff despite having no direct ties. I wasn’t old enough to watch Frank play but I’m extremely impressed with him as a person, coach and motivator in today’s NFL. Edited January 12, 2020 by JGMcD2 2
billsfanmiami(oh) Posted January 12, 2020 Posted January 12, 2020 25 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said: Yes, that is correct! It would’ve gotten far too complex and convoluted had I tried to dive into every player, position coach relationship, at least for the time I wanted to spend on it haha. I thought coordinators was the easiest + I can’t recall an instance where anyone other than a coordinator was named a head coach. Then Frank Reich showed an incredible amount of integrity and retained all of them on his staff despite having no direct ties. I wasn’t old enough to watch Frank play but I’m extremely impressed with him as a person, coach and motivator in today’s NFL. He’d done a great job. But I have a feeling it wouldn’t have worked in buffalo. Glad we went outside the “network” and also happy for Frank. 1
JGMcD2 Posted January 12, 2020 Author Posted January 12, 2020 22 minutes ago, billsfanmiami(oh) said: He’d done a great job. But I have a feeling it wouldn’t have worked in buffalo. Glad we went outside the “network” and also happy for Frank. I agree! I think Sean does a great job balancing the history of Buffalo and legacy of those teams while also focusing on the future and the culture today. He respects the past while also building for the future. Frank would have drawn some necessary (and unnecessary) comparisons primarily from the media about those Super Bowl teams + Thurman, Kelly, Reed, Bruce, etc. I think he would’ve brought a similar approach and mindset but the pressure would have been substantially greater.
Boatdrinks Posted January 12, 2020 Posted January 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I dunno about “coaching trees” but I felt McDaniel behaved in a completely unprofessional manner with regard to the Colts job. He got 3 assistant coaches to resign and leave their jobs for him then he screwed them all over by backing out. He showed a total lack of integrity and I hope Karma is a beeeeoytch and bites him as he deserves. I’d love for him to leave New England as I think he’s very good and a part of Brady’s success. However, I also think your point is shared by some in the league and that will limit his options to go elsewhere.
Malazan Posted January 12, 2020 Posted January 12, 2020 1 hour ago, JGMcD2 said: I thought coordinators was the easiest + I can’t recall an instance where anyone other than a coordinator was named a head coach. How quickly everyone forgets about the great 49ers legend, Jimmy Tomsula. Unless you're just talking about under those two coaches, but really, I just wanted a reason to mention Tomsula. 1
GunnerBill Posted January 12, 2020 Posted January 12, 2020 6 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I dunno about “coaching trees” but I felt McDaniel behaved in a completely unprofessional manner with regard to the Colts job. He got 3 assistant coaches to resign and leave their jobs for him then he screwed them all over by backing out. He showed a total lack of integrity and I hope Karma is a beeeeoytch and bites him as he deserves. I maintain the only place he should ever be a HC again is New England. If they want to hire him after Bill they can go ahead. But the other 31 should steer well clear after how he behaved. The fact that he then turns up at Cleveland with a list of demands about things he wants control of..... I mean talk about lacking basic self-awareness. 1
GunnerBill Posted January 12, 2020 Posted January 12, 2020 Yep. Bill O'Brien who is a good, not great, NFL Head Coach is the only branch off the Belichick tree so far that is not absolutely rotten. I do think Brian Flores might be another though. Talent wise Miami was the worst roster in the league.
Sweats Posted January 12, 2020 Posted January 12, 2020 7 hours ago, JR in Pittsburgh said: that’s where I am. If I am an owner, that is all I need to know about him. He would never be on my list of candidates. BTW, OP, I assume you don’t put Vrabel on BB’s tree because he only played under him? He is sort of an off-shoot because he was on O’Brien’s staff. And not only that, but look at the roster he slaughtered at Denver with his short tenure there........and then sank the franchise by reaching for Tebow, for christs sakes. Shameful.........just shameful.
JGMcD2 Posted January 12, 2020 Author Posted January 12, 2020 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Sweats said: And not only that, but look at the roster he slaughtered at Denver with his short tenure there........and then sank the franchise by reaching for Tebow, for christs sakes. Shameful.........just shameful. Yes, people seem to brush over the type of talent he had in Denver. That was a rebuttal from my Browns fan friend... he said “The Browns have infinitely more talent than McDaniels ever had outside of New England”. Obviously he didn’t know what he was talking about because I quickly googled the teams he had. He had former #1 overall pick Sam Bradford who had just won NFL Offensive Rookie of the Year in St. Louis. Plus Steven Jackson and Brandon Lloyd. In Denver he had Kyle Orton, Brandon Marshall (Pro Bowl 2009) and Brandon Lloyd (All Pro 2010), Knowshon Moreno who was the #12 pick that year, Ryan Clady (All-Pro 2009 LT) Elvis Dumervil (All-Pro LB 2009), Champ Bailey (Pro Bowl 2009-12 CB), Brian Dawkins (2nd Team All-Pro S 2009). He also managed to trade Jay Cutler, Brandon Marshall and Peyton Hillis! I’ll give him the fact that he drafted both Demaryius Thomas and Eric Decker in 2010 but he only coached them for 10 games before he got fired. Speaking of him getting fired... I can rehash the whole Spygate 2.0 in Denver that had a pretty big impact on him getting fired. Funny how McDaniels and former Patriots video assistant Steve Scarnecchia had no idea that video taping an opponents practice was illegal after being two main players during the original Spygate in New England. His agent also left him after he screwed the Colts over because of the backlash he was receiving! Holy crap, the more and more I look into this guy he seems like a horrible candidate. Either NFL owners are idiots or the media is conducting the hype train for this buffoon. Edited January 12, 2020 by JGMcD2
Madmax09 Posted January 12, 2020 Posted January 12, 2020 If your only picking offensive and defensive coordinators, then you have to leave John Harbaugh out of it. He was the ST coordinator for Reid.
JGMcD2 Posted January 12, 2020 Author Posted January 12, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Madmax09 said: If your only picking offensive and defensive coordinators, then you have to leave John Harbaugh out of it. He was the ST coordinator for Reid. My mistake - I see where I had that written. Good catch! That wasn’t consistent with the overall content of the post. I have made an adjustment to reflect this. Edited January 12, 2020 by JGMcD2 1
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted January 12, 2020 Posted January 12, 2020 13 hours ago, JGMcD2 said: A friend of mine is a big Browns fan... we’ve been going back and forth basically since we hired McDermott about what team was doing things the right way... the Browns or the Bills. Well that’s pretty obvious now... but our football conversations have become much deeper. He REALLY wants McDaniels and I believe McDaniels isn’t a great candidate. I’m a big believer in career paths and trends... so I did some research to prove him wrong. I thought it would be interesting to share with a wider audience since I spent a little bit of time in it lol! The content is the “coaching tree” of both Belicheck and Reid (only reflects offensive and defensive coordinators under them that went on to be HC). I picked these two because there are 8 coordinators under Belicheck and Reid that are currently NFL head coaches. If you include Reid and Belicheck their “trees” (as defined in this case) make up 32% of all NFL head coaches. BILL BELICHECK These are the 6 coordinators under Bill Belicheck to become head coaches (excluding Joe Judge who has yet to coach and NFL game) Romero Crennel, Josh McDaniels, Eric Mangini, Bill O’Brien, Matt Patricia, Brian Flores. Their combined record is 138-196-1. That is good for a .412 winning%. The only coach with a winning record is Bill O’Brien. Those coaches combined to coach 22 total seasons as a head coach. Over those 22 total seasons those coaches average roughly 6 wins and 9 losses. Those coaches made the playoffs 5 times in 22 seasons which is 23% of the time. Mangini (1) and O’Brien (4) are the only coaches to make playoff appearances. No coach has a winning record in the playoffs. ANDY REID These are the 5 coordinators under Andy Reid to become head coaches. Brad Childress, John Harbaugh, Doug Pederson, Sean McDermott, Matt Nagy. Their combined record is 240-170. That is good for a .585 winning%. No coach has a losing record in their career as a head coach. Those coaches have combined for 26 seasons as head coaches. Over those 26 seasons they average 9 wins and 6.6 losses. Only Brad Childress has more than 1 losing season in his career as a head coach. Those coaches made the playoffs 16 times in 26 seasons that’s good for 62%. Each coach has made the playoffs at least 1 time. Harbaugh (8), Pederson (3), Childress (2), McDermott (2), Nagy (1). They’re a combined 15-13 in the playoffs with 2 Super Bowl Champions (Harbaugh and Pederson). Matt Nagy won AP Coach of the Year in 2018. ...excellent work...thanks for sharing.....illustrates there are NO guarantees.....far more goes into it than roots......what if a "sapling doesn't take"?......for example, Daboll is from the "Belichick Tree" and there sure as hell is a dichotomy of opinions right here on TBD......he didn't come with a warranty or "money back guarantee"......
jimmy10 Posted January 12, 2020 Posted January 12, 2020 Huh. It’s almost as if there’s some kind of built-in advantage that goes with coaching in New England. I wonder what ever could that be?
peterpan Posted January 12, 2020 Posted January 12, 2020 15 hours ago, JGMcD2 said: A friend of mine is a big Browns fan... we’ve been going back and forth basically since we hired McDermott about what team was doing things the right way... the Browns or the Bills. Well that’s pretty obvious now... but our football conversations have become much deeper. He REALLY wants McDaniels and I believe McDaniels isn’t a great candidate. I’m a big believer in career paths and trends... so I did some research to prove him wrong. I thought it would be interesting to share with a wider audience since I spent a little bit of time in it lol! The content is the “coaching tree” of both Belicheck and Reid (only reflects coordinators under them that went on to be HC). I picked these two because there are 8 coordinators under Belicheck and Reid that are currently NFL head coaches. If you include Reid and Belicheck their “trees” (as defined in this case) make up 32% of all NFL head coaches. BILL BELICHECK These are the 6 coordinators under Bill Belicheck to become head coaches (excluding Joe Judge who has yet to coach and NFL game) Romero Crennel, Josh McDaniels, Eric Mangini, Bill O’Brien, Matt Patricia, Brian Flores. Their combined record is 138-196-1. That is good for a .412 winning%. The only coach with a winning record is Bill O’Brien. Those coaches combined to coach 22 total seasons as a head coach. Over those 22 total seasons those coaches average roughly 6 wins and 9 losses. Those coaches made the playoffs 5 times in 22 seasons which is 23% of the time. Mangini (1) and O’Brien (4) are the only coaches to make playoff appearances. No coach has a winning record in the playoffs. ANDY REID These are the 5 coordinators under Andy Reid to become head coaches. Brad Childress, John Harbaugh, Doug Pederson, Sean McDermott, Matt Nagy. Their combined record is 240-170. That is good for a .585 winning%. No coach has a losing record in their career as a head coach. Those coaches have combined for 26 seasons as head coaches. Over those 26 seasons they average 9 wins and 6.6 losses. Only Brad Childress has more than 1 losing season in his career as a head coach. Those coaches made the playoffs 16 times in 26 seasons that’s good for 62%. Each coach has made the playoffs at least 1 time. Harbaugh (8), Pederson (3), Childress (2), McDermott (2), Nagy (1). They’re a combined 15-13 in the playoffs with 2 Super Bowl Champions (Harbaugh and Pederson). Matt Nagy won AP Coach of the Year in 2018. Belicheater has achieved his success by cheating. Andy Reid has achieved his success by being good at coaching football. The end. 1
Call_Of_Ktulu Posted January 12, 2020 Posted January 12, 2020 3 hours ago, jimmy10 said: Huh. It’s almost as if there’s some kind of built-in advantage that goes with coaching in New England. I wonder what ever could that be? They are all on TB12 aka undetectable HGH and they have the opposing locker room bugged.
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