BillsVet Posted January 10, 2020 Posted January 10, 2020 31 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: PFF is dead to me frankly Phillips is a good player and should be retained.......a rotation of the two Phillips and Ed Oliver is sick He's going to want a 4-5 year deal, and at 8M per we're talking probably 20M+ guaranteed. That's a lot for someone with 1 out his 5 NFL seasons being very good. I know some people are emotionally invested in keeping him, but the value isn't there and emotion doesn't play a part in this. Also, consider that Phillips plays the 3T most and that's where this team just took a kid 9th overall. He's also not a great fit at 1T where Lotulelei and H. Phillips will be next season in all likelihood (although it remains to be seen what Star brings). The PFF analysis makes a compelling argument for allowing him to test UFA. Just because a guy has sacks doesn't mean you keep him. 2
John from Riverside Posted January 10, 2020 Posted January 10, 2020 1 minute ago, BillsVet said: He's going to want a 4-5 year deal, and at 8M per we're talking probably 20M+ guaranteed. That's a lot for someone with 1 out his 5 NFL seasons being very good. I know some people are emotionally invested in keeping him, but the value isn't there and emotion doesn't play a part in this. Also, consider that Phillips plays the 3T most and that's where this team just took a kid 9th overall. He's also not a great fit at 1T where Lotulelei and H. Phillips will be next season in all likelihood (although it remains to be seen what Star brings). The PFF analysis makes a compelling argument for allowing him to test UFA. Just because a guy has sacks doesn't mean you keep him. Lets wait to see what he is actually looking for. You dont get better by letting your good players walk.
MAJBobby Posted January 10, 2020 Author Posted January 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: Lets wait to see what he is actually looking for. You dont get better by letting your good players walk. I am in at 6 to 8.5 AVV could even get up to 9.5. I am not breaking the double digit threshold for him. And I fully suspect once Combine comes his agent is going to be hearing from teams butting him in that 10M+ range. already did it once with Star (a flawed player) not gonna day let’s do it again. Star 10M a year can only play the run Phillips 10M a year and can’t play the run. you also don’t get better over-paying flawed players
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted January 10, 2020 Posted January 10, 2020 He's gone, would be overvalued anyway.
MAJBobby Posted January 10, 2020 Author Posted January 10, 2020 (edited) And just to add a board Favorite for Bills to go get in Vic Beasley and Bud Dupree are also discussed as over valued but the other AtL DE Adrian Clayborn and Clowney are in the undervalued list. Edited January 10, 2020 by MAJBobby
atlbillsfan1975 Posted January 11, 2020 Posted January 11, 2020 48 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: And just to add a board Favorite for Bills to go get in Vic Beasley and Bud Dupree are also discussed as over valued but the other AtL DE Adrian Clayborn and Clowney are in the undervalued list. Beasley is never signing in Buffalo. He is the exact opposite of a process and culture guy. Beane and McDermott will have the scoop on him from their time in Carolina.
Stank_Nasty Posted January 11, 2020 Posted January 11, 2020 2 hours ago, mjt328 said: Amazing how our Defense was Top 5 in virtually every category, yet according to PFF almost all of our defensive players are below average. A couple weeks ago, one of their guys was defending the ridiculously low grade on Tre White. It was hilarious during the Pittsburgh introductions. I don't think the Bills had one guy in the Top 30 at their position on the defensive side. Hopefully the other teams looking for D-Line help take PFF as gospel. It may help us retain Jordan Phillips and Shaq Lawson on some bargain deals. I’ve thought this same thing a bunch. How can a defense rank elite and top 5 basically across the board in all meaningful categories and yet PFF doesn’t have any of our guys graded out very well at all. it’s really hard to take them seriously anymore. Does anyone in their right friggin mind think white is the 15th best corner in the NFL? It’s their system and I have to believe that even they have a hard time believing that.
Real McClappy Posted January 11, 2020 Posted January 11, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, mjt328 said: Amazing how our Defense was Top 5 in virtually every category, yet according to PFF almost all of our defensive players are below average. A couple weeks ago, one of their guys was defending the ridiculously low grade on Tre White. It was hilarious during the Pittsburgh introductions. I don't think the Bills had one guy in the Top 30 at their position on the defensive side. Hopefully the other teams looking for D-Line help take PFF as gospel. It may help us retain Jordan Phillips and Shaq Lawson on some bargain deals. Spot on! PFF is straight trash. I think PFF hopes this is how our FO see ours players so we can farm out to other teams. If Phillips signs elsewhere his grade will immediately shoot up and that team will have won the offseason by these clowns. Edited January 11, 2020 by Real McNasty
billsfan89 Posted January 11, 2020 Posted January 11, 2020 36 minutes ago, Real McNasty said: Spot on! PFF is straight trash. I think PFF hopes this is how our FO see ours players so we can farm out to other teams. If Phillips signs elsewhere his grade will immediately shoot up and that team will have won the offseason by these clowns. Other team's front offices have their own analytics, PFF are essentially amateurs who watch a lot of football and attempt to grade each play. Front offices have actual staff who attempt to quantify how good players on their team and other teams are. 1
peterpan Posted January 11, 2020 Posted January 11, 2020 Sign Clowney to 25 mil a year it's better than paying Shaq 12 a year. Just structure it so he can be cut/traded after 3 seasons (ie when we need to pay Josh $200million)
BillsVet Posted January 11, 2020 Posted January 11, 2020 6 hours ago, John from Riverside said: Lets wait to see what he is actually looking for. You dont get better by letting your good players walk. He's not going to accept an AAV equal to what he had this year: 4.5M. So bank on at least 7M per. And that's low-balling it. Say Buffalo re-signs him. They'd have big dollars tied up in two DTs, a 3rd round pick and a top 10 pick. I'm sorry, but this team can find a solid contributor without investing big resources at DT. McD likes his waves of DT's, but was Buffalo's interior DLine that much better with Phillips? It wasn't, but plenty of people focus on that 10 sacks number and think he's gotta be retained. Not at the kind of money he'll be looking to make, but working in the Bills favor is that (so far) the DT UFA class looks pretty strong.
Buffalo_Stampede Posted January 11, 2020 Posted January 11, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, billsfan89 said: Other team's front offices have their own analytics, PFF are essentially amateurs who watch a lot of football and attempt to grade each play. Front offices have actual staff who attempt to quantify how good players on their team and other teams are. Every NFL team uses PFF and pays them. PFF isn't facts, but it's data that can be used to help gather information on players. That's all it is. It's not trash. It's opinions. They watch every single snap and give their opinion. Edited January 11, 2020 by Buffalo_Stampede
Buffalo_Stampede Posted January 11, 2020 Posted January 11, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, peterpan said: Sign Clowney to 25 mil a year it's better than paying Shaq 12 a year. Just structure it so he can be cut/traded after 3 seasons (ie when we need to pay Josh $200million) I'de offer Clowney a 2 year $50 million deal fully guaranteed. An elite pass rusher added to this defense would be like Thanos adding the 6th stone. Edited January 11, 2020 by Buffalo_Stampede
Bookie Man Posted January 11, 2020 Posted January 11, 2020 Kind of reminded me of Shaq vs Denver. Picked up 2 sacks that day, but literally was untouched on both plays.
Turk71 Posted January 11, 2020 Posted January 11, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, billsfan89 said: Other team's front offices have their own analytics, PFF are essentially amateurs who watch a lot of football and attempt to grade each play. Front offices have actual staff who attempt to quantify how good players on their team and other teams are. As of 2019, PFFprovides customized data to all 32 NFL teams, 62 NCAA FBS teams, 4 CFLteams, national/regional media (i.e. Washington Post, The Athletic, ESPN) and sports agencies/agents. Bunch of 'amateur jokers' that the pros and colleges pay for their insight evidently. Edited January 11, 2020 by Turk71
GETTOTHE50 Posted January 11, 2020 Posted January 11, 2020 I would not like for him to leave. him and treday made the bigger plays on defense this year.
H2o Posted January 11, 2020 Posted January 11, 2020 (edited) 14 hours ago, MAJBobby said: And just to add a board Favorite for Bills to go get in Vic Beasley and Bud Dupree are also discussed as over valued but the other AtL DE Adrian Clayborn and Clowney are in the undervalued list. Beasley is trash. I don't think Beane/McD are that stupid. Bud Dupree was nothing until offenses had to start focusing more of their attention on Watt. Clayborn is trash and is close to 32. Clowney is gonna be too rich for our blood, as will Ngakoue. I expect Shaq to be re-signed, Liuget to be re-signed, and Phillips allowed to walk. We get Harry back next year and still have Taylor. They won't break the bank for anyone on either side of the ball, though I do hope they open up their wallet somewhat for Conklin. Edited January 11, 2020 by H2o
The Frankish Reich Posted January 11, 2020 Posted January 11, 2020 PFF haters should also note that they had Harrison Phillips rated very highly (the highest rated defensive lineman on the Bills in 2019) in his limited pre-injury action this year. And Kyle Peko rated as, well, kind of sub-replacement level. Those ratings make sense to me. Jordan Phillips had a nice season, but he's still erratic -- he'll impress with the "damn, that big guy's got some moves" moments, then follow by having his 330 pound body bulldozed on runs right up the middle. Jordan is worth keeping at a reasonable price, but I think he'll get a bigger offer from somebody than what his overall body of work warrants. Thanks, PFF, for helping the Bills avoid making a mistake ....
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