The Rooney Rule (still) isn’t working?

[DuckyBoys]

Just now, klos63 said:

I don't think it's necessarily racism, actually don't think that at all. It's just that the comfort level with retreads or just coaches with more experience which naturally excludes minorities and the thinking is , if you just give them a chance, you'll probably find who you are looking for.  The Rooney rule is not about hiring unqualified minorities, it's about not giving a chance to the qualified ones. Do you think the Baylor coach hired by Carolina is more qualified than someone like Leslie Frazier? Eric Bienemy?  He got $60 million- first time NFL head coach.

 

I think the Baylor hire is following the trend of hiring young coaches and he did rebuild both Temple and Baylor quickly from dumpster fires into very good college programs.  They are hoping for a Sean McVay.  Leslie Frazier did not fare well as a head coach.  Eric Bienemy will get a job.  If not this cycle then soon.  

[whatdrought]

3 minutes ago, klos63 said:

I don't think it's necessarily racism, actually don't think that at all. It's just that the comfort level with retreads or just coaches with more experience which naturally excludes minorities and the thinking is , if you just give them a chance, you'll probably find who you are looking for.  The Rooney rule is not about hiring unqualified minorities, it's about not giving a chance to the qualified ones. Do you think the Baylor coach hired by Carolina is more qualified than someone like Leslie Frazier? Eric Bienemy?  He got $60 million- first time NFL head coach.

 

Well the closed-mindedness of decision makers when it comes to innovation (irregardless of race) is another conversation in of itself, but there are guys all over the racial spectrum who suffer as a result of that. That's more to do with people not being willing to bend, but you don't see rules demanding that owners interview candidates who run a different offensive scheme than their last guy. Innovation wins. Look at the Cardinals. They took a massive risk to get someone "new" and outside the norm and it worked (with mixed results) for them. 

 

I guess my thing is, why do we need a rule to dictate who gets interviews when the reality is that owners open to innovation will find the innovators. 

 

I actually think he is really qualified from what I've read. As for those two, I don't really know as I'm not the owner. But I don't have, nor have I seen, any reason to believe that the owner of the Panthers chose his head coach because of his race. As far as I am concerned, and until it can be demonstrated otherwise, he did so with the intention of getting the best possible coach for his football team (Tepper coming from Pittsburgh is one that I am sure is fine with Minority candidates if they are the right guy for the job).

[Mikie2times]

I would be interested to know the demographics on offensive and defensive coordinator's and assistants. That is your current and future coaching recruiting pool. I do not have time at the moment to research but perhaps another time. 

 

I'm inclined to agree with the notion that winning supersedes all. I would think certainly at the top like HC, best man for the job hands down. Top of the ladder is all the rule applies to. If the pool doesn't exist to begin with in the form of OC's/DC's and assistants then the rule won't help any. I also think it's somewhat faulty to compare the sample to national demographics. You should look at it with at least a slight tilt toward the demographics of the league. I'm not saying full tilt, but it should push more that way. That is at least if you think it benefits you in coaching to play at the highest level or even college. Some have, some haven't.    

[Jay_Fixit]

I think it’s a ridiculous rule.

[whatdrought]

8 minutes ago, 32ABBA said:

I think Tomlin is a great coach

 

 

All this talk about Tomlin reminds me of reading about him getting started with Tony Dungy in Tampa Bay. Dungy had on his staff, Lovie Smith, Herm Edwards, Tomlin, Monte Kiffin, Rod Marinelli and a bunch of other stud coaches. Dungy's book is a great look at building that staff and team.

[Mr. WEO]

8 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

 

It really can't.  The only thing it does is get guys in the room, giving them the opportunity to possibly "wow" an owner or GM.

 

There needs to be more Brian Flores-kind-of-hires to balance out the Cliff Kingsbury and retread hires that we often see.

I think the issue is the “needs to be” directive.  

[Utah John]

I read an article a few weeks ago about how it's really the system that's holding back hiring more minorities.  Not that anyone has that objective, but here's the theory --

 

Offensive coordinators get a lot of attention as prospective HCs.  A lot of OCs grow up from being QB coaches, and teams have historically hired white QB coaches to work with their white QBs.  So, the pipeline (if there is one) is slanted toward white QB coaches becoming white OCs and then white HCs.  

 

This can't be the whole story.  A lot of HC hires aren't coming in from being an OC.  Also there are a lot more black QBs than there used to be so why can't there be black QB coaches?  But, to the extent that this has been true over the past decade or so, it could have skewed the statistics toward making it harder for a qualified black coach to get started.  

 

Also there are some really good black coaches.  Tomlin probably should be coach of the year after the Steelers pulled it together.  Unless Brian Flores gets it -- his front office raided the team of all its best players, the team started out playing miserable football, and yet he got Miami back in shape and competitive.  Beating NE in NE in a game NE really wanted to win, is damned impressive.  (Of course, the next week Tennessee did the very same thing, so maybe not so impressive...but the Titans were recognized as having a much better team.)  I consider Miami with Flores a much bigger threat in our rear view mirror than the Jets with Gase, to challenge the Bills after the Pats finally come back to Earth.

[2012spiller]

12 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

 

1- 13% right now, which is low statistically speaking, but statistics are somewhat lacking as you still have to have sound arguments for which of the other 87% are inferior to xMinority candidate. It was much higher just a couple years ago, but guys like Vance Joseph and Steve Wilks were fired due to being horrible HC's.

 

2- I disagree that that proves that premise, but I don't want to argue Kap and derail this.

 

3-  I mean, that seems like a stretch. Matt Rhule was a linebacker, Ron Rivera a defensive coach, Joe Judge a STer, and Mike McCarthy a TE. I would imagine (without doing the grunt work) that there probably isn't a huge majority of former QB's at HC in the league now.

 

4- But what standard indicates they're better suited for that? Bienemy doesn't call plays in KC (which was true of Pederson and Nagy as well, with mixed results so far, I would say), and Leftwhich just coached a QB to the first 30td/30int season in NFL history (not that I blame him for that, but he was also the OC in Arizona last year... yikes). Also, Bienemy did get interviewed by the Giants and the Panthers. I'm not sure what differentiates these two from the ones you named, and if they were all purple we wouldn't be having this conversation. That last sentence I can agree on, but i don't think it has anything to do with race. 

 

 

I'm fine having a healthy discussion and being willing to see all the perspectives, but I'm not pro-feelings when it comes to things such as this... This is a big deal and I think it needs to be engaged with varifiable proofs and evidence in order to truly be handled. It's not good enough that it feels like there is disparity, it needs to be proved in order to be attacked and handled. 

 

 

But isn't this just the point? Is there a player that that universally is accepted as a good QB prospect who never got a fair shake at it? A guy being asked to switch positions could be because of racism, or it could be because he's just not that good... Nobody asked Patrick Mahomes to switch positions because his arm talent (though erratic coming out) was seen as such a plus side that he was worth developing. If a white Cornerback is too slow to play in the NFL and gets switched to Safety or something like that, is it racist, or is it practical?

 

You've also got on your list guys who did play, and are now in the hall of fame. Warren Moon, Steve McNair, Doug Williams (not HOF, but SB winning). I guess it just doesn't seem like a list composed of guys who were deprived a chance because of their skin color. 

 

1 it’s not that 87% of coaches are inferior to minority candidates but maybe 25-40% of coaches are.  Freddie kitchens and pat schumur were just head coaches...

On 3, i was off base saying former qbs, but there’s definitely been a push over the past few years to find offensive minded coach “the next Sean Mcvay.” There’s a lack of minority offensive positions coaches as well resulting in a bad pipeline of candidates

 

4- those two are apart of high powered offenses in the nfl.  Rhule comes from college in a conference that plays air raid against some of the worst defenses in the county, also a college coach’s success has a lot to do with recurring than coaching which isn’t applicable to the nfl.  Saban

Learned the hard way. Judge was most recently NE WR coach,  their WR struggled all year even with a first round WR.  While the 2 minorities I listed are not drastically better than the guys I named  but there’s nothing to point to, to say those guys deserve to be head coaches over minorities.

 

if we were all purple we wouldn’t be having this convo but we’re not all purple.... even if we were we would still have a conversation as to why some of these guys are coaches over others.  I would say Roman and the Viks OC deserve HC jobs over some current coaches.

[jkeerie]

1 hour ago, StHustle said:

 

I think you and most on this board TOTALLY miss the idea behind the rule. While I concede the rule doesnt work well at all, I agree with its purpose. If you dont think the reality is that OFTEN times (not going to argue MOST of the time but even 3 out of 10 could be considered OFTEN) minorities get looked over for their white counterparts, you are living in la la land. Their are PLENTY and I mean PLENTY good HC candidates. MOST dont pan out. However in that huge pool of candidates, its easy for the people in decision making power (over 90% white) to interview people who look more like them. Its simply a HUMAN BEING FACT that people are most comfortable around and working with people who look like them. It's SUBCONSCIOUS for most so its wont be acknowledged or admitted to by most so I expect this post to get scoffed at but ANY person who studies this stuff and knows what they are talking about will agree Im right. So what the rule does is force ALL decision makers to at least hear out one minority guy per search to hopefully open their minds.

 

For example, Im a black guy who has owned businesses and hired people. When I had an electronics store near downtown buffalo, the neighborhood was over 90% African American. I hired 4 people and all of them were African American. I, unlike most, will admit Im most comfortable around people of my own race. HOWEVER, I am nowhere near racist and would have been more than willing to hire a white guy. BUT, in a pool of 10 applicants and 9 are black and 1 white...the white guy likely never gets an interview. Now lets say I was FORCED to interview the 1 white guy. By the end of my interview process I may very well deem him a top choice and hire someone I would never even interviewed if not forced. OR at the very least could tell some of my business owner friends about him if he just misses my cut.

 

Sorry no time to proof read this post so forgive me for any typos...I type fast and can make many!

This is an interesting take and I think has a lot of validity in general. Thank you for sharing.   I think the NFL today has proven to be one minute  "trendy" and the other looking at the track record of the candidate or the success of the team in which they spent their formative years.   We had the hot offensive coordinator trend.  We've had the various coaching trees (Walsh, Parcells, now Belichick).   You're seeing more choices made on the basis of who can build a winning culture.   I don't know where race plays into it any longer, broadly speaking.  

[Blank Stare]

55 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

 

1- 13% right now, which is low statistically speaking, but statistics are somewhat lacking as you still have to have sound arguments for which of the other 87% are inferior to xMinority candidate. It was much higher just a couple years ago, but guys like Vance Joseph and Steve Wilks were fired due to being horrible HC's.

 

2- I disagree that that proves that premise, but I don't want to argue Kap and derail this.

 

3-  I mean, that seems like a stretch. Matt Rhule was a linebacker, Ron Rivera a defensive coach, Joe Judge a STer, and Mike McCarthy a TE. I would imagine (without doing the grunt work) that there probably isn't a huge majority of former QB's at HC in the league now.

 

4- But what standard indicates they're better suited for that? Bienemy doesn't call plays in KC (which was true of Pederson and Nagy as well, with mixed results so far, I would say), and Leftwhich just coached a QB to the first 30td/30int season in NFL history (not that I blame him for that, but he was also the OC in Arizona last year... yikes). Also, Bienemy did get interviewed by the Giants and the Panthers. I'm not sure what differentiates these two from the ones you named, and if they were all purple we wouldn't be having this conversation. That last sentence I can agree on, but i don't think it has anything to do with race. 

 

 

I'm fine having a healthy discussion and being willing to see all the perspectives, but I'm not pro-feelings when it comes to things such as this... This is a big deal and I think it needs to be engaged with varifiable proofs and evidence in order to truly be handled. It's not good enough that it feels like there is disparity, it needs to be proved in order to be attacked and handled. 

 

 

But isn't this just the point? Is there a player that that universally is accepted as a good QB prospect who never got a fair shake at it? A guy being asked to switch positions could be because of racism, or it could be because he's just not that good... Nobody asked Patrick Mahomes to switch positions because his arm talent (though erratic coming out) was seen as such a plus side that he was worth developing. If a white Cornerback is too slow to play in the NFL and gets switched to Safety or something like that, is it racist, or is it practical?

 

You've also got on your list guys who did play, and are now in the hall of fame. Warren Moon, Steve McNair, Doug Williams (not HOF, but SB winning). I guess it just doesn't seem like a list composed of guys who were deprived a chance because of their skin color. 

All fair points. You’re absolutely right, some of these guys got QB opportunities and did well with them. Some REALLY well. Also fair to point out that others on the list were successful at other positions. It’s also ok to mention there are white players that were also asked to make similar position switches, albeit maybe not at the rate as some of the black QBs (Tebow, Taysom Hill, Eric Crouch, Trace McSorley, Edelman, etc.). Or even the ever elusive white corner back <gasp>!
 

I think the point of my previous post, which may not have been articulated all that well, is that the players on that list were asked to switch. Some said no (or yes) and it didn’t hurt them, but they were asked. Whether it was fair or a legitimate reason to ask is subjective, but at least fair to wonder why. 
 

It has been historically suggested at a pretty high rate that black QBs at the high school or collegiate level should consider a position switch at the next level. My contention is that I believe in many cases (not all) that it had a lot to do with institutional racism or an implicit racial bias with people who have run the league (historically) that foolishly think these players aren’t as smart as or have the ability to lead like their white counterpart. Or even in some way that it’s not ok to have a black QB with that much power and in a leadership position. 
 

Again, fortunately, I think the league has made strides in this area. Lamar Jackson being the most recent case. I can only hope it continues to get better.

 

I know I may have shifted a degree or two off the point of the thread, but I believe that in some way we all get better through open conversations like these. Whether we agree or disagree that’s ok. While it may be painful or annoying to some on this board, I appreciate you reading/listening and indulging me with this discussion. I’ll zip it and let people get back to their regularly scheduled programming. 

Edited January 8, 2020 by TheProcess

[Boatdrinks]

Was wondering when ESPN was going to start their ceremonial whining about the coaching hires. Haven’t watched since Wingo and fat LeBetard piled on the Bills and Josh. Anyway, it was only a matter of time before you could cue up the outrage. Oddly enough, I never hear them decry the lack of diversity in the player ranks. Look, to me it’s a non issue. I don’t care who decides they want to pursue football at the high school level, college etc. However, these clowns politicize a non political thing almost as a pastime. They and certain “ newspapers” will carry on about the lack of diversity among MLB players and what should be done about it. The answer is ....NOTHING. Exactly what should be done about the ethnic makeup of NFL rosters and their respective coaching staffs. Houston, we do not have a problem ! 

[whatdrought]

27 minutes ago, 2012spiller said:

 

1 it’s not that 87% of coaches are inferior to minority candidates but maybe 25-40% of coaches are.  Freddie kitchens and pat schumur were just head coaches...

On 3, i was off base saying former qbs, but there’s definitely been a push over the past few years to find offensive minded coach “the next Sean Mcvay.” There’s a lack of minority offensive positions coaches as well resulting in a bad pipeline of candidates

 

4- those two are apart of high powered offenses in the nfl.  Rhule comes from college in a conference that plays air raid against some of the worst defenses in the county, also a college coach’s success has a lot to do with recurring than coaching which isn’t applicable to the nfl.  Saban

Learned the hard way. Judge was most recently NE WR coach,  their WR struggled all year even with a first round WR.  While the 2 minorities I listed are not drastically better than the guys I named  but there’s nothing to point to, to say those guys deserve to be head coaches over minorities.

 

if we were all purple we wouldn’t be having this convo but we’re not all purple.... even if we were we would still have a conversation as to why some of these guys are coaches over others.  I would say Roman and the Viks OC deserve HC jobs over some current coaches.

 

But which Minority candidates? It's also not black and white like that (pun slightly intended, lol). There are bad coaches, no doubt. But at the time of their hire they weren't bad coaches. They made sense on some level or another. Vance Joseph (black), Freddy Kitchens (White), Steve Wilkes (Black), Pat Shumur (White), Todd Bowles (Black), Chip Kelly (White). None of these people, I would argue, were hired because of their skin color. They were hired because they were perceived to be the best bet for the job. Unfortunately for them, the owners, and the fans, that perception was wrong. 

 

Meh, I'd be interested in the statistics of that, but where minority candidates are coming for seems like a deeper level of conversation than we can handle in this thread today- Though there may be something to the process down the line- that I'm not familiar with as much. 

 

Rhule was universally (edit: universally may be strong, but very heavily) regarded as the top coaching candidate the past two years. Those other guys will likely get a chance some time, but what you've said is not at all evidence that they are clearly better candidates than the others. Kliff Kingsbury was also from college, more of a longshot than Rhule, and had a decent Freshmen season. It happens, and one candidate can't really be seen as superior to the others from the outside, at least not with the information we have. 

Judge was the ST coordinator for years in NE. A very very good ST unit while he was there. The WR's struggled, but my guess is he got the job more on his merits as ST coordinator. Andrew Hawkins, a black former WR posted a thread about how wise it is to get a good ST coach for a head coach. It could be a miss, but time will tell. It reminds me of the John Harbaugh hire. Again, no real concrete evidence that he's a worse candidate than either of those guys. I'm not saying it's not possible, but it's really impossible for us to understand the minutiae involved in that process. 

 

But that's the proof in the pudding, there are questionable decisions made on both sides of the racial aisle, so to speak. It's a business with human movers and shakers. 

Edited January 8, 2020 by whatdrought

[Boatdrinks]

39 minutes ago, TheProcess said:

All fair points. You’re absolutely right, some of these guys got QB opportunities and did well with them. Some REALLY well. Also fair to point out that others on the list were successful at other positions. It’s also ok to mention there are white players that were also asked to make similar position switches, albeit maybe not at the rate as some of the black QBs (Tebow, Taysom Hill, Eric Crouch, Trace McSorley, Edelman, etc.). Or even the ever elusive white corner back <gasp>!
 

I think the point of my previous post, which may not have been articulated all that well, is that the players on that list were asked to switch. Some said no (or yes) and it didn’t hurt them, but they were asked. Whether it was fair or a legitimate reason to ask is subjective, but at least fair to wonder why. 
 

It has been historically suggested at a pretty high rate that black QBs at the high school or collegiate level should consider a position switch at the next level. My contention is that I believe in many cases (not all) that it had a lot to do with institutional racism or an implicit racial bias with people who have run the league (historically) that foolishly think these players aren’t as smart as or have the ability to lead like their white counterpart. Or even in some way that it’s not ok to have a black QB with that much power and in a leadership position. 
 

Again, fortunately, I think the league has made strides in this area. Lamar Jackson being the most recent case. I can only hope it continues to get better.

 

I know I may have shifted a degree or two off the point of the thread, but I believe that in some way we all get better through open conversations like these. Whether we agree or disagree that’s ok. While it may be painful or annoying to some on this board, I appreciate you reading/listening and indulging me with this discussion. I’ll zip it and let people get back to their regularly scheduled programming. 

Wow , where to start ? What a load of nonsense. Perhaps some players were asked to switch positions to a skill position such as WR etc because they were athletically superior to the other candidates . Imagine that ! That’s a typical high school football type move, where you put the best athlete at QB. That wasn’t thought to work at the NFL level because of the level of overall talent on pro rosters. That’s been somewhat disproven  lately by Lamar Jackson, but the jury is out as far as it being an effective long term strategy. The risk of injury for that type of QB play is much higher, so we will see. So much nonsense about racism going around these days. Even permeating sports, which is just entertainment and for many a refuge from outside noise around us every day. 

Edited January 8, 2020 by Boatdrinks

[whatdrought]

23 minutes ago, TheProcess said:

All fair points. You’re absolutely right, some of these guys got QB opportunities and did well with them. Some REALLY well. Also fair to point out that others on the list were successful at other positions. It’s also ok to mention there are white players that were also asked to make similar position switches, albeit maybe not at the rate as some of the black QBs (Tebow, Taysom Hill, Eric Crouch, Trace McSorley, Edelman, etc.). Or even the ever elusive white corner back <gasp>!
 

I think the point of my previous post, which may not have been articulated all that well, is that the players on that list were asked to switch. Some said no (or yes) and it didn’t hurt them, but they were asked. Whether it was fair or a legitimate reason to ask is subjective, but at least fair to wonder why. 
 

It has been historically suggested at a pretty high rate that black QBs at the high school or collegiate level should consider a position switch at the next level. My contention is that I believe in many cases (not all) that it had a lot to do with institutional racism or an implicit racial bias with people who have run the league (historically) that foolishly think these players aren’t as smart as or have the ability to lead like their white counterpart. Or even in some way that it’s not ok to have a black QB with that much power. 
 

Again, fortunately, I think the league has made strides in this area. Lamar Jackson being the most recent case. I can only hope it continues to get better.

 

I know I may have shifted a degree or two off the point of the thread, but I believe that in some way we all get better through open conversations like these. Whether we agree or disagree that’s ok. While it may be painful or annoying to some on this board, I appreciate you reading/listening and indulging me with this discussion. I’ll zip it and let people get back to their regularly scheduled programming. 

 

I don't have a ton of knowledge in that regard so I won't debate it. I do hesitate when I see things like "institutional racism" and "implicit racism" because there is no real way to combat those, if they are a problem. Without examples of that racism, we can't fight against it. If there's a highschool coach whose pushing black young men towards skill positions with racist intent, I think we can all band together and do what it takes to stop that. It's just hard to use generalities and phrases that encompass wide swaths because that can derail the productivity of the conversation. 

 

I personally wonder what the affect of Black guys typically being better athletes has on the conversation. When I coached little league, the QB was essentially center 2.0 who handed the ball to whatever star athlete we had at the time and rarely ever passed. Those star athletes 8 out of 10 times were black. I wonder if that creates a channelling of talent into the skill positions at the young age... I don't have anything other than my observations on that though so take it for what it's worth. 

 

Yeah, it's all good to disagree! I appreciate getting to chat with you!

 

 

 

 

 

4 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Wow , where to start ? What a load of nonsense. Perhaps some players were asked to switch positions to a skill position such as WR etc because they were athletically superior to the other candidates . Imagine that ! That’s a typical high school football type move, where you put the best athlete at QB. That wasn’t thought to work at the NFL level because of the level of overall talent on MFL rosters. That’s been somewhat disproven  lately by Lamar Jackson, but the jury is out as far as it being an effective long term strategy. The risk of injury for that type of QB play is much higher, so we will see. So much nonsense about racism going around these days. Even permeating sports, which is just entertainment and for many a refuge from outside noise around us every day. 

 

Do try to disagree respectfully. @TheProcess has been very respectful in his discourse- no need to get chippy. ?

Edited January 8, 2020 by whatdrought

[Florida Bills Fanatic]

This is a very difficult issue for many people to discuss.  I'm not sure that there is one single silver bullet answer that will deliver the kinds of results that many people want to have.  IMHO the situation could be improved through better developmental assignments so that there is a significant high quality diverse candidate pool to fill openings.  OC and DC positions have been the main stepping stones to become head coaches.  Creating career paths to prepare future candidates to succeed should be an essential part of the league's human resources policies.  Just guaranteeing that a minority gets interviewed for an opening is just insincere window dressing.  As others have pointed out, owners are going to select the candidates that they believe will win the most games and championships.  By the way, major university programs shouldn't get a pass on this subject either.

[Utah John]

 

I wonder what would be viewed as success in this regard.  Is there a target number of black HCs that would lead everyone to say all is well?  I think the purpose of the Rooney Rule is to make sure some qualified black coaching candidates at least get into the room and have a shot at impressing the management.  That's all that anyone can really ask for.  

Edited January 8, 2020 by Utah John
strange duplication of an earlier post

[pennstate10]

So, I'm guessing this will be a bit controversial, but here goes. 

 

The US population is, roughly, 60% white, 10 % Latino, 10% black, 10% Asian, 10 % other. 

 

But NFL cornerbacks are 0 % white, almost 100% black. 

 

Should there be a Rooney rule for white cornerbacks?  Where each team has to play at least one white CB in the preseason, give him a chance?

 

or should the best players play, regardless of race or ethnic background?

 

And should that same philosophy be applied to coaches. The best coaches coach, regardless of race etc?

[Blank Stare]

23 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Wow , where to start ? What a load of nonsense. Perhaps some players were asked to switch positions to a skill position such as WR etc because they were athletically superior to the other candidates . Imagine that ! That’s a typical high school football type move, where you put the best athlete at QB. That wasn’t thought to work at the NFL level because of the level of overall talent on MFL rosters. That’s been somewhat disproven  lately by Lamar Jackson, but the jury is out as far as it being an effective long term strategy. The risk of injury for that type of QB play is much higher, so we will see. So much nonsense about racism going around these days. Even permeating sports, which is just entertainment and for many a refuge from outside noise around us every day. 

Agree to disagree I suppose. Point of my post wasn’t to change your beliefs. Rather, simply to express mine. I never said all cases. In fact, very rarely can you say all cases about anything. Athletic superiority as you’ve suggested could absolutely be a reason for some of the several position switches at various levels. 
 

As far as your comment about too much “nonsense about racism”, I’m sorry you don’t like the topic, but it’s a very real part of life for many people in this country, including NFL coaches and players. You don’t get to dismiss it because you deem it nonsense. Sports is an escape for a lot of people, but sometimes it takes a common subject universally accepted by all races to get people’s attention and have a meaningful discussion about it. Personally, I like hearing multiple perspectives on the subject. However, I will give you that this message board is predominately about the Bills, so maybe this isn’t the right forum for such discourse. 

Edited January 8, 2020 by TheProcess

[Boatdrinks]

1 minute ago, TheProcess said:

Agree to disagree I suppose. Point of my post wasn’t to change your beliefs. Rather, simply to express mine. I never said all cases. In fact, very rarely can you say all cases about anything. Athletic superiority as you’ve suggested could absolutely be a reason for some of the several position switches at various levels. 
 

As far as your comment about too much “nonsense about racism”, I’m sorry you don’t like the topic, but it’s a very real part of life for many people in this country, including NFL coaches and players. You don’t get to dismiss it because you deem it nonsense. Sports is an escape for a lot of people, but sometimes it takes a common subject universally accepted by all races to get people’s attention and have a meaningful discussion about it. Personally, I like hearing multiple perspectives on the subject. However, I will give you that this message board is predominately about the Bills, so maybe this isn’t the right forum for such discourse. 

Yes, I will just agree to disagree. It’s not about whether I like a topic or not, but things aren’t as bad as you paint them to be.  You just can’t believe everything that the doomsayers spoon feed you as fact. Narratives they bombard you with until you’ve accepted it and made it part of your daily outlook. Go Bills! 

[Doc Brown]

Three out of 32 head coaches are black.  Less than 10%.  Approximately 13% of population is black and I believe around 70% of NFL players are black. So, no.  It’s not working and needs to be tweaked or eliminated.

Edited January 8, 2020 by Doc Brown