wppete Posted January 8, 2020 Posted January 8, 2020 This is not a political question, this is strictly a Football and NFL question. So please no divisive politics. We should be able to discuss here. Was watching ESPN and the topic of the "Rooney Rule" came up. Steven A. Smith had some very strong words here in this video. Can someone please explain this rule to me??? Ima a little confused here. From what I understand is that any Head Coaching position that is available/open there has to be at least one minority Interviewed and considered for this position. Seems like this rule was met and adhered to in the signing this week. What exactly is the argument here? Do they now want to Force Owners and Management to Hire Minority Coaches? In essence tell owners who they should hire, pay and lead their team/business? I have never heard anything of this sort in Business Article from Mike Florio of NBCalso here: The Rooney Rule (still) isn’t working https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/01/07/the-rooney-rule-still-isnt-working/
JaCrispy Posted January 8, 2020 Posted January 8, 2020 (edited) yes (without getting into politics) ? Edited January 8, 2020 by JaCrispy 4 1
whatdrought Posted January 8, 2020 Posted January 8, 2020 Almost made a thread on this earlier, but wasn’t sure how it would go over. The flak now is is that the rule isn’t resaulting in many minorities being hired. Technically speaking, something like 20% of the open positions have been filled with a minority candidate this year (Rivera in WSH) which is not all that much lower than the 30% minority makeup of the US. The problem, and the argument that Stephen A. and others don’t seem to want to engage regarding this, is that you can’t debate the Rooney rule and the lack of minority coaches in a racial vaccum. You have to present actual examples of minority coaches who are more deserving of the position being passed over. That’s kinda hard to do, I think. The problem, in my humble opinion, is that any time you look at anything but qualifications for a job or position, you break the system. This anger about minorities not being respresented has to intrinsically include an accusation that an owners racism is worth more to them than winning. That’s a hard pill to swallow. 7 3 1
thenorthremembers Posted January 8, 2020 Posted January 8, 2020 I think things like the Rooney rule are the very thing that promote color barriers. Mike Tomlin didnt get the Steelers job because he was the best Rooney Rule coach he got it and kept it because he was the best coach for the job, period. The analyst want to be up in arms about the lack of minority coaches but have no issue with the lack of asian, latino and white players in the league, its backwards. 9
whatdrought Posted January 8, 2020 Posted January 8, 2020 Just now, thenorthremembers said: I think things like the Rooney rule are the very thing that promote color barriers. Mike Tomlin didnt get the Steelers job because he was the best Rooney Rule coach he got it and kept it because he was the best coach for the job, period. The analyst want to be up in arms about the lack of minority coaches but have no issue with the lack of asian, latino and white players in the league, its backwards. And he’s done damn well for himself. I was certain this would be the end of the Tomlin era, but man he really made lemonade. Changed my opinion of him as a coach for sure. 4
ghostwriter Posted January 8, 2020 Posted January 8, 2020 I couldn’t disagree more. I think if an owner thinks an African American coach gives you a better chance than a white guy, they’ll get hired. Could be wrong but teams are way too competitive to not hire the best coach. Could be wrong though but I’ll try n keep an open mind. 3
wppete Posted January 8, 2020 Author Posted January 8, 2020 1 minute ago, whatdrought said: Almost made a thread on this earlier, but wasn’t sure how it would go over. The flak now is is that the rule isn’t resaulting in many minorities being hired. Technically speaking, something like 20% of the open positions have been filled with a minority candidate this year (Rivera in WSH) which is not all that much lower than the 30% minority makeup of the US. The problem, and the argument that Stephen A. and others don’t seem to want to engage regarding this, is that you can’t debate the Rooney rule and the lack of minority coaches in a racial vaccum. You have to present actual examples of minority coaches who are more deserving of the position being passed over. That’s kinda hard to do, I think. The problem, in my humble opinion, is that any time you look at anything but qualifications for a job or position, you break the system. This anger about minorities not being respresented has to intrinsically include an accusation that an owners racism is worth more to them than winning. That’s a hard pill to swallow. Thanks for replying, I understand now and agree with you. We should be able to discuss this as it seems like there is a lot of confusion out there and its all over the media today.
whatdrought Posted January 8, 2020 Posted January 8, 2020 Just now, wppete said: Thanks for replying, I understand now and agree with you. We should be able to discuss this as it seems like there is a lot of confusion out there and its all over the media today. I think it should be discussed, and I think the mods will let it ride if it stays football based and respectful. *fingers crossed* twitter is all bent out of shape on this subject these days and it is definitely a powder keg. 1
wppete Posted January 8, 2020 Author Posted January 8, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, whatdrought said: And he’s done damn well for himself. I was certain this would be the end of the Tomlin era, but man he really made lemonade. Changed my opinion of him as a coach for sure. He really has, one of the best coaches in all of sports. The Redskins did hire a minority Head Coach, he was the only coach interviewed by the redskins and Hired. And he is a great coach. Edited January 8, 2020 by wppete
whatdrought Posted January 8, 2020 Posted January 8, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, wppete said: He really has, one of the best coaches in all of sports. It’s rare for me to be so completely sure about something and then look back and be like “damn, I was wrong.” That’s one of em. I was telling my dad (big Steelers fan) all offseason about how Tomlin was gonna be revealed to be a bad coach and get fired, and how the SB can only take him so far. Now, if I was a Steelers fan, I’d be pumped about him leading the team into the future. He showed that he can get players to play and that the “talent” and drama isn’t the important thing. On a a side note, i’d Love for them to draft one of those project QB’s in the second round (Jacob Eason, Jordan Love, Jalen Hurts) and go crazy after Ben is done. Edited January 8, 2020 by whatdrought 1
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted January 8, 2020 Posted January 8, 2020 1 minute ago, whatdrought said: Almost made a thread on this earlier, but wasn’t sure how it would go over. The flak now is is that the rule isn’t resaulting in many minorities being hired. Technically speaking, something like 20% of the open positions have been filled with a minority candidate this year (Rivera in WSH) which is not all that much lower than the 30% minority makeup of the US. The problem, and the argument that Stephen A. and others don’t seem to want to engage regarding this, is that you can’t debate the Rooney rule and the lack of minority coaches in a racial vaccum. You have to present actual examples of minority coaches who are more deserving of the position being passed over. That’s kinda hard to do, I think. The problem, in my humble opinion, is that any time you look at anything but qualifications for a job or position, you break the system. This anger about minorities not being respresented has to intrinsically include an accusation that an owners racism is worth more to them than winning. That’s a hard pill to swallow. ...DEAD ON and nicely done......perhaps a naive observation, but when do we reach a point, if ever, where skin color dictates a candidate's hiring?...and good luck proving the non-hire was race based....some have posted here regarding no interviews for Frazier......his first shot as HC graduating from coordinator ranks didn't work, as it has for many others regardless of skin color.....secondly, he'll be 61 in April, so does he want the extra rigors of being a HC?.....don't coordinators who gt hired as HC, then fired, revert back to their old coordinator positions and are comfortable with it, regardless of skin color?.....didn't Schwartz get canned as a HC and go back to his DC roots and seemingly comfortable with it?....is the intrview satisfaction probably exploited?.....did Jurrah ever intend to hire Marvin Lewis?...doubtful.....did the Colts ever intend to hire Frazier?...dunno.....at the same time, if Frazier now gets an interview for HC vacancy, is it because of skin color or skill set as a potential HC?......NO ANSWER HERE but demeaning IMO to get an interview for "rule satisfaction"... 1
Mr. WEO Posted January 8, 2020 Posted January 8, 2020 There is no viable solution to the problems with the Rooney rule because it simply cannot achieve what it seeks to achieve. 4 1
BigBillsFan Posted January 8, 2020 Posted January 8, 2020 The whole thing is a joke. Look at that ESPN set and ask yourself if they apply diversity according to ethnic makeup. It's 1 white guy and 3 black men. Does that mean the 3 black men aren't qualified? What if you made it gender diverse? I don't see that for sports shows either. It's selective pandering.
row_33 Posted January 8, 2020 Posted January 8, 2020 You mean when the Cowboys hired Parcells without any other serious interviews and then atom-bombed the Lions for only a few extra interviews?
wppete Posted January 8, 2020 Author Posted January 8, 2020 Just now, row_33 said: You mean when the Cowboys hired Parcells without any other serious interviews and then atom-bombed the Lions for only a few extra interviews? My friend it’s 2020. Let’s stick to this years hires and looking forward. 1
Rob's House Posted January 8, 2020 Posted January 8, 2020 Stephen A's just trying to win back some of the woke points he lost for being too honest about Kaepernick. 2
Scott7975 Posted January 8, 2020 Posted January 8, 2020 16 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said: I think things like the Rooney rule are the very thing that promote color barriers. Mike Tomlin didnt get the Steelers job because he was the best Rooney Rule coach he got it and kept it because he was the best coach for the job, period. The analyst want to be up in arms about the lack of minority coaches but have no issue with the lack of asian, latino and white players in the league, its backwards. I don’t really like getting into this kind of discussions but I agree. Rooney rule is the type of thing that keeps this ***** alive. Why can’t people just be people without special rules? Having special rules keeps people divided into categories instead of just being people. I know racism still exists. I’m not blind but this type of thing helps keep it going. It doesn’t help get rid of it. 2
Blank Stare Posted January 8, 2020 Posted January 8, 2020 The Rooney Rule is mostly a joke. Yes, it forces teams to interview a minority candidate that maybe the good old boys club may not have considered. However, most of the time it rarely results in a hire and actually patronizes qualified (and some not) minority candidates just to check the box. There are a bunch of qualified minority candidates that deserved an opportunity to at least interview this year that seemingly didn’t get a shot (based on what we’ve seen reported anyway). This is all coming from a league that has routinely failed to give black QBs a chance to be a QB, instead encouraging them to switch positions. If they aren’t willing to consistently give black QBs a chance, what makes you think they are comfortable letting them be CEO of their team as a coach? I know this won’t be a popular take among many, and those people will just point to the few examples sprinkled throughout history as black QBs and coaches, but if they really think about it, that’s kinda the point. Those few black QBs and coaches got to where they are in many cases despite a system, much like that of the real world, that just isn’t fair. 1 1
whatdrought Posted January 8, 2020 Posted January 8, 2020 7 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...and good luck proving the non-hire was race based.... That's where I think this really get's disasterous... Right now there are people who are saying Joe Judge got hired in NY over Eric Bieniemy because of his race. Without substantial evidence and proof of this, how is that not just complete BS? How can you make that accusation without any real factual proof? It's garbage. 9 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: .....at the same time, if Frazier now gets an interview for HC vacancy, is it because of skin color or skill set as a potential HC?......NO ANSWER HERE but demeaning IMO to get an interview for "rule satisfaction"... Another good point, and something I've always wondered... How does a minority candidate not wonder if they're simply the box checker when they get the call for an interview (especially in cases where it's obvious the team has their guy in mind). Seems like the thought would have to exist?... I dunno man. 1
Recommended Posts