MAJBobby Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 Now that the Season is over, I thought I would try this maybe it will spark some nice discussion. I used to do something like this for camp as well. Disclaimer I will not put all Names not on the Bills in this thread as it would get to long, I will keep it to a couple names in each tier (as I see them). Hope you enjoy the read Currently on Roster: Josh Allen (3 yrs to UFA) Matt Barkley (1 yr to UFA) – Saves 1.8M against the cap if Cut. Davis Webb (signed a Futures Deal) My Take: I am not going to turn this in to a Josh Allen thread as it is about organizational depth, however you can’t rally address the position without talking about the starters in that group either. I personally am still not sold on Josh Allen as a long-term future QB of this team. I was hoping to come away with that feeling but I just am not, and to b honest right now that is not a bad thing for the reasons I will list below: Reason 1 – Say what you want about Allen, he was the rawest QB in the draft. It was always going to take time with him. To be honest this year for me was about “does he look the part”. Also looking at the other QBs in his class (going to exclude Lamar Jackson from this for a moment because of Greg Roman’s building an offense to fit Lamar, not sure if that offense is sustainable, but will come back to it.) I wanted to see if Allen could match Darnold, Mayfield and Rosen (going to leave out because Allen passed him bad). So, looking at Darnold and Mayfield in terms of Stats. Darnold: 61.9%, 3024 yds, 21 tot TDs, 16 turnovers, 6.9 ypa Mayfield: 59.4%, 3827 yds, 25 tot TDs, 23 turnovers, 7.2 ypa Allen: 58.8%, 3089 yds, 29 tot TDs, 13 turnovers, 6.7 ypa Essentially these numbers show that in second year Allen the furthest away from NFL ready has grown to these two and closed the gap. Lamar of course right now is the best QB in the class and grown more than all these QBs, so even including him I am happy of that growth from year 1 to 2 from Allen. And I think this is that floor for Allen, with still a ton of room for his ceiling and to continue to raise his floor. Reason 2 – On could argue that this was Allen’s first year with an actual set of weapons and a decent OL in front of him. And with that he improved his numbers by: 6.0% completion %, 1015 yards (granted played 3 more games), 10 more passing TDs, 3 less INTs, 21.6 rating, and 0.2 in ypa. Those are growth numbers, and I think you get him a better OL and Better weapons and he will continue that slope. Now that said on Allen, I am still not sold as the long-term answer as I said, but there is enough growth there that I don’t think we need to cut him loose or look for upgrades at the starter spot, let me see another year. The guys in the room love him and would go to battle for him, coming from a organization that thrives off leadership (Military) those types of statements I hear from these NFL Veterans show me his leadership capability. When a team is willing to fight for you that is all you need to hear in terms of the leadership intangibles. Allen has all the intangibles and skills you would want as a QB. So can he become more consistent week in and week out and continue to improve his mechanics. The work ethic is there, I would love to see another similar jump in numbers at the end of next year. If he can do that the final numbers (passing only) would look like. 64.8%, 4104 yards, 30 TDs, 6 INT, 6.9 ypa with a 95.3 rating - those are TOP END QB Numbers. Now that said the issue becomes BU QB. This could likely be the last year you need that grizzled VET on the sideline helping Allen. So, an Argument could be made to let Barkley go and go young at the BU position. I don’t think Davis Webb offers anything. I also do not think on the field I am confident in Barkley. I know having that Vet at every position group is something McD and Beane like to have so with that in mind I would address the BU QB position with an actual competition for Barkley either UFA or Rookie. UFAs Possible it will be kinda dry in terms of an possible upgrade to Barkley. Tier 1 Eli Manning – not sure if he is willing to accept that BU role and some team will likely make him a bridge starter Marcus Mariota – I don’t think h starts again Tier 2: Chad Henne – This would be my TGT, Mahomes is on record talking about how much Henne has helped his growth and likely a 5M to 6M AVV can get it done. When you remove Barkley’s contract you are paying a little more for IMO a Better option Matt Moore – Think he retires. Draft (guys I think will not b looked for to start right away) Tier 1: Jalen Hurts (Oklahoma) Jacob Eason (Washington) Sam Ehlinger (UT) Tier 2: Tyler Huntley (Utah) Anthony Gordon (Washington State) Kellen Mond (Texas A&M) Final thinking in this Position group for me would be to stay put, UNLESS I can get Chad Henne then I would go there and upgrade that room. I would not go young at backup this year, maybe one more year away until we can be in the business of drafting, developing and flipping QBs. I am happy with this position group as is in 2020 cap and money likely will be better spent elsewhere 5
klos63 Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 I think Allen is the long term solution. Like you said, pretty raw to start and had quite a bit of improvement in year 2 with better players around him. Regarding Barkley, I don't think he's very good but I don't expect the Bills to make a change there. Most backups look like crap when entering mid game, those with less familiarity look even worse. For that reason alone, I think they keep him. But I wouldn't be opposed to an upgrade if available. 1
billsfan1959 Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 IMO, Allen is going to be the starter here for a long time. The only thing that needs to be addressed here is whether or not Barkley can win 2-3 games for this team if Allen goes down for a few games. If not, upgrade. 2
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 Generally, you want a Backup who can play .500 for you when the regular guy goes down for a few weeks. Barkley was good the first time against NYJ, not so good but with mostly backups against Jets first team. He could be replaced, but I'm not sure its needed. I agree with you, 2020 current status would be fine.
RyanC883 Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 I'd add Dalton into the mix as a backup. However, if Henne is helpful, I'd add him. I agree about having a vet on the sideline. Would have helped for someone to talk to Allen during the Houston game, for example. I'd also look at Bridgewater for that role. And if Allen is not the answer, he becomes QB1. Although I see Teddy in LA or NE (barf).
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 13 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: Now that the Season is over, I thought I would try this maybe it will spark some nice discussion. Silly boy...flame wars begin in 5...4...3...2... 2
RyanC883 Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 Just now, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said: Generally, you want a Backup who can play .500 for you when the regular guy goes down for a few weeks. Barkley was good the first time against NYJ, not so good but with mostly backups against Jets first team. He could be replaced, but I'm not sure its needed. I agree with you, 2020 current status would be fine. current status would be fine. I'd like a better backup, however. The passes that Barkely threw vs. the Jets were described as "weak armed." I think the position group that we can most easily turn into elite on offense is the TE, but I'll wait for that day to post my thoughts on why there.
LOVEMESOMEBILLS Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 15 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: Now that the Season is over, I thought I would try this maybe it will spark some nice discussion. I used to do something like this for camp as well. Disclaimer I will not put all Names not on the Bills in this thread as it would get to long, I will keep it to a couple names in each tier (as I see them). Hope you enjoy the read Currently on Roster: Josh Allen (3 yrs to UFA) Matt Barkley (1 yr to UFA) – Saves 1.8M against the cap if Cut. Davis Webb (signed a Futures Deal) My Take: I am not going to turn this in to a Josh Allen thread as it is about organizational depth, however you can’t rally address the position without talking about the starters in that group either. I personally am still not sold on Josh Allen as a long-term future QB of this team. I was hoping to come away with that feeling but I just am not, and to b honest right now that is not a bad thing for the reasons I will list below: Reason 1 – Say what you want about Allen, he was the rawest QB in the draft. It was always going to take time with him. To be honest this year for me was about “does he look the part”. Also looking at the other QBs in his class (going to exclude Lamar Jackson from this for a moment because of Greg Roman’s building an offense to fit Lamar, not sure if that offense is sustainable, but will come back to it.) I wanted to see if Allen could match Darnold, Mayfield and Rosen (going to leave out because Allen passed him bad). So, looking at Darnold and Mayfield in terms of Stats. Darnold: 61.9%, 3024 yds, 21 tot TDs, 16 turnovers, 6.9 ypa Mayfield: 59.4%, 3827 yds, 25 tot TDs, 23 turnovers, 7.2 ypa Allen: 58.8%, 3089 yds, 29 tot TDs, 13 turnovers, 6.7 ypa Essentially these numbers show that in second year Allen the furthest away from NFL ready has grown to these two and closed the gap. Lamar of course right now is the best QB in the class and grown more than all these QBs, so even including him I am happy of that growth from year 1 to 2 from Allen. And I think this is that floor for Allen, with still a ton of room for his ceiling and to continue to raise his floor. Reason 2 – On could argue that this was Allen’s first year with an actual set of weapons and a decent OL in front of him. And with that he improved his numbers by: 6.0% completion %, 1015 yards (granted played 3 more games), 10 more passing TDs, 3 less INTs, 21.6 rating, and 0.2 in ypa. Those are growth numbers, and I think you get him a better OL and Better weapons and he will continue that slope. Now that said on Allen, I am still not sold as the long-term answer as I said, but there is enough growth there that I don’t think we need to cut him loose or look for upgrades at the starter spot, let me see another year. The guys in the room love him and would go to battle for him, coming from a organization that thrives off leadership (Military) those types of statements I hear from these NFL Veterans show me his leadership capability. When a team is willing to fight for you that is all you need to hear in terms of the leadership intangibles. Allen has all the intangibles and skills you would want as a QB. So can he become more consistent week in and week out and continue to improve his mechanics. The work ethic is there, I would love to see another similar jump in numbers at the end of next year. If he can do that the final numbers (passing only) would look like. 64.8%, 4104 yards, 30 TDs, 6 INT, 6.9 ypa with a 95.3 rating - those are TOP END QB Numbers. Now that said the issue becomes BU QB. This could likely be the last year you need that grizzled VET on the sideline helping Allen. So, an Argument could be made to let Barkley go and go young at the BU position. I don’t think Davis Webb offers anything. I also do not think on the field I am confident in Barkley. I know having that Vet at every position group is something McD and Beane like to have so with that in mind I would address the BU QB position with an actual competition for Barkley either UFA or Rookie. UFAs Possible it will be kinda dry in terms of an possible upgrade to Barkley. Tier 1 Eli Manning – not sure if he is willing to accept that BU role and some team will likely make him a bridge starter Marcus Mariota – I don’t think h starts again Tier 2: Chad Henne – This would be my TGT, Mahomes is on record talking about how much Henne has helped his growth and likely a 5M to 6M AVV can get it done. When you remove Barkley’s contract you are paying a little more for IMO a Better option Matt Moore – Think he retires. Draft (guys I think will not b looked for to start right away) Tier 1: Jalen Hurts (Oklahoma) Jacob Eason (Washington) Sam Ehlinger (UT) Tier 2: Tyler Huntley (Utah) Anthony Gordon (Washington State) Kellen Mond (Texas A&M) Final thinking in this Position group for me would be to stay put, UNLESS I can get Chad Henne then I would go there and upgrade that room. I would not go young at backup this year, maybe one more year away until we can be in the business of drafting, developing and flipping QBs. I am happy with this position group as is in 2020 cap and money likely will be better spent elsewhere I think he improved greatly over the offseason and again after the first Pats**** game. After game 4 and including the playoff game he had 17 TDs and only 3 INTs, almost a 6:1 TD to INT ratio. That's a far cry from the raw QB we saw most of last year, when Daboll would tell him that if the first option wasn't open to run. He struggled against the Pats****(2nd best pass defense), Steelers(3rd best) & the Ravens(6th best), but at the same time had 6 games with a QB Rating over 100, last year he only had 2. Last year he had 5 games with a QB Rating under 60, this year it only happened in the first Pats**** game. If he makes the same leap forward next year he becomes the QB we've been waiting for since Kelly. 1
MAJBobby Posted January 7, 2020 Author Posted January 7, 2020 16 minutes ago, RyanC883 said: I'd add Dalton into the mix as a backup. However, if Henne is helpful, I'd add him. I agree about having a vet on the sideline. Would have helped for someone to talk to Allen during the Houston game, for example. I'd also look at Bridgewater for that role. And if Allen is not the answer, he becomes QB1. Although I see Teddy in LA or NE (barf). I thought about Dalton (but he isn’t free yet. Could be added). Bridgewater is going to want to start. He showed the league he can be a starting QB and IMO I think NE will be his landing spot when Tom retires or leaves.
Mike is my real name Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 Sorry but Allen s stats Trump those of Mayfield and Darnold. More TDs which and less turnovers. No significant difference in ypa.
atlbillsfan1975 Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) Great job MAJBobby. Thank you. I think Allen is the answer and will continue to develop. Everything about his past from college to now shows that. He is getting better. My eyes and the stats have made me a believer. As for back up, Barkley is fine I think. He didn’t play a great game the last week. I put more stock in 2018’s appearances when he was playing with all starters and a regular work week of preparation. Edited January 7, 2020 by atlbillsfan1975 1
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 58 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: Now that the Season is over, I thought I would try this maybe it will spark some nice discussion. I used to do something like this for camp as well. Disclaimer I will not put all Names not on the Bills in this thread as it would get to long, I will keep it to a couple names in each tier (as I see them). Hope you enjoy the read Currently on Roster: Josh Allen (3 yrs to UFA) Matt Barkley (1 yr to UFA) – Saves 1.8M against the cap if Cut. Davis Webb (signed a Futures Deal) My Take: I am not going to turn this in to a Josh Allen thread as it is about organizational depth, however you can’t rally address the position without talking about the starters in that group either. I personally am still not sold on Josh Allen as a long-term future QB of this team. I was hoping to come away with that feeling but I just am not, and to b honest right now that is not a bad thing for the reasons I will list below: Reason 1 – Say what you want about Allen, he was the rawest QB in the draft. It was always going to take time with him. To be honest this year for me was about “does he look the part”. Also looking at the other QBs in his class (going to exclude Lamar Jackson from this for a moment because of Greg Roman’s building an offense to fit Lamar, not sure if that offense is sustainable, but will come back to it.) I wanted to see if Allen could match Darnold, Mayfield and Rosen (going to leave out because Allen passed him bad). So, looking at Darnold and Mayfield in terms of Stats. Darnold: 61.9%, 3024 yds, 21 tot TDs, 16 turnovers, 6.9 ypa Mayfield: 59.4%, 3827 yds, 25 tot TDs, 23 turnovers, 7.2 ypa Allen: 58.8%, 3089 yds, 29 tot TDs, 13 turnovers, 6.7 ypa Essentially these numbers show that in second year Allen the furthest away from NFL ready has grown to these two and closed the gap. Lamar of course right now is the best QB in the class and grown more than all these QBs, so even including him I am happy of that growth from year 1 to 2 from Allen. And I think this is that floor for Allen, with still a ton of room for his ceiling and to continue to raise his floor. Reason 2 – On could argue that this was Allen’s first year with an actual set of weapons and a decent OL in front of him. And with that he improved his numbers by: 6.0% completion %, 1015 yards (granted played 3 more games), 10 more passing TDs, 3 less INTs, 21.6 rating, and 0.2 in ypa. Those are growth numbers, and I think you get him a better OL and Better weapons and he will continue that slope. Now that said on Allen, I am still not sold as the long-term answer as I said, but there is enough growth there that I don’t think we need to cut him loose or look for upgrades at the starter spot, let me see another year. The guys in the room love him and would go to battle for him, coming from a organization that thrives off leadership (Military) those types of statements I hear from these NFL Veterans show me his leadership capability. When a team is willing to fight for you that is all you need to hear in terms of the leadership intangibles. Allen has all the intangibles and skills you would want as a QB. So can he become more consistent week in and week out and continue to improve his mechanics. The work ethic is there, I would love to see another similar jump in numbers at the end of next year. If he can do that the final numbers (passing only) would look like. 64.8%, 4104 yards, 30 TDs, 6 INT, 6.9 ypa with a 95.3 rating - those are TOP END QB Numbers. Now that said the issue becomes BU QB. This could likely be the last year you need that grizzled VET on the sideline helping Allen. So, an Argument could be made to let Barkley go and go young at the BU position. I don’t think Davis Webb offers anything. I also do not think on the field I am confident in Barkley. I know having that Vet at every position group is something McD and Beane like to have so with that in mind I would address the BU QB position with an actual competition for Barkley either UFA or Rookie. UFAs Possible it will be kinda dry in terms of an possible upgrade to Barkley. Tier 1 Eli Manning – not sure if he is willing to accept that BU role and some team will likely make him a bridge starter Marcus Mariota – I don’t think h starts again Tier 2: Chad Henne – This would be my TGT, Mahomes is on record talking about how much Henne has helped his growth and likely a 5M to 6M AVV can get it done. When you remove Barkley’s contract you are paying a little more for IMO a Better option Matt Moore – Think he retires. Draft (guys I think will not b looked for to start right away) Tier 1: Jalen Hurts (Oklahoma) Jacob Eason (Washington) Sam Ehlinger (UT) Tier 2: Tyler Huntley (Utah) Anthony Gordon (Washington State) Kellen Mond (Texas A&M) Final thinking in this Position group for me would be to stay put, UNLESS I can get Chad Henne then I would go there and upgrade that room. I would not go young at backup this year, maybe one more year away until we can be in the business of drafting, developing and flipping QBs. I am happy with this position group as is in 2020 cap and money likely will be better spent elsewhere Good stuff. I know you probably didn't include dalton because he is technically not "available". I also think he may try and go somewhere to start. Chicago maybe... Tampa... Chargers... or Tennessee should they lose tannehill. Someone's going to trade for Newton too, so Carolina may become a landing spot for all these guys too. Bridgewater is the wildcard i think since he has 6 starts in 3 years, but Jimmy G got that big deal and it seems to be working for them. He'll probably get paid, so buffalo would pass. Mariota to me doesn't look like a starter, but neither does trubiskey so maybe they add him there and just see what happens. I would like him as a backup though, he's a lot like tyrod. Winstons on a 5th year option, and you're kind of playing with fire if you release him - but i wouldn't blame them in the slightest. It becomes a very attractive landing spot for a number of QBs. Chargers should walk from rivers, and i honestly like them to move up and grab Tua if he's remotely healthy. It's a Russ Brandon marketing move to sell tickets - but they have to do it. Tennessee will probably try and get something done with Tannehill so they can tag henry and work out an extension. Patriots brady, Saints Brees. The rest a merry-go-round of mediocrity. Would love to snag a Henne to upgrade barkley. Especially watching him flounder around in the rain.
Scott7975 Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 1 hour ago, RyanC883 said: I'd add Dalton into the mix as a backup. However, if Henne is helpful, I'd add him. I agree about having a vet on the sideline. Would have helped for someone to talk to Allen during the Houston game, for example. I'd also look at Bridgewater for that role. And if Allen is not the answer, he becomes QB1. Although I see Teddy in LA or NE (barf). I think Bridgewater will be a starter somewhere. Possibly even Dalton if a team is desperate. If Fitz can find starter roles all this time so can those two guys.
Kelly the Dog Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 Both the coach and GM love Allen (as do I) and he is going to be here awhile. I think we need an immediate upgrade at backup QB, although I believe that Barkley has helped Josh. Mariotta or Dalton would be great, IMO, although I don't think we get them.
ogham26 Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 im fine with barkley as the back up next year. if we needed a legit starting caliber qb to come in then you make a trade in season and find someone to help make a playoff push or whatever next season.
GunnerBill Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 A low price vet backup and an early day 3 draft pick to compete with Barkley next summer.
The Jokeman Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: A low price vet backup and an early day 3 draft pick to compete with Barkley next summer. I'd love for us to add Matt Moore who played under Daboll in Miami and see as an upgrade to Barkley.
MAJBobby Posted January 7, 2020 Author Posted January 7, 2020 9 minutes ago, The Jokeman said: I'd love for us to add Matt Moore who played under Daboll in Miami and see as an upgrade to Barkley. I would go with Moore. I think he retires (if I remember right he had to be coaxed out of retirement this year.
yungmack Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 I go back and forth on Allen. For now, I think we should give him another year. 2
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