Dat Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 It just takes him too long to get off the swing/wheel route. The endzone view is telling on this one. Staring at that route forever with a free rusher in front of his face. Get off it dude pic.twitter.com/F6EqAEdK6D — Seth Galina (@SethGalina) January 7, 2020 The only way that's in front of his face is that after that hit he is looking out his ear hole thanks to the whiff block by Ford on JJ. Lots on him but that one isn't on Josh. 2
ILBillsfan Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 6 minutes ago, Dat said: It just takes him too long to get off the swing/wheel route. The endzone view is telling on this one. Staring at that route forever with a free rusher in front of his face. Get off it dude pic.twitter.com/F6EqAEdK6D — Seth Galina (@SethGalina) January 7, 2020 The only way that's in front of his face is that after that hit he is looking out his ear hole thanks to the whiff block by Ford on JJ. Lots on him but that one isn't on Josh. yeah this was silly the other guys on the routes were not open as well this twitter analysis was very jaded. 2
Meatloaf63 Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 3 hours ago, MDH said: Yep, it's Zay Jone's fault, it's the OL's fault, it's Foster's fault, it's Daboll's fault. Not saying that these players/coaches don't share some of the blame but a lot of the offense's struggles can be pinned on the QB running the show. Not all of it, but quite a bit. Allen improved greatly this year, he's not there yet. We need to see another jump next year. If we do and we get a little more help around him the team can contend for the AFC. Nope, it all starts with the offensive line. If it doesn’t give adequate protection especially in critical situations then everything becomes an issue after that. What did Zay, Benjamin do after they left here? Allen is still young and learning, but he is far from the problem here. 23 and learning on the job being compared to qb’s that have far more experience or far better weapons. The impatience around her is laughable. If he hadn’t improved since last year you might have a case, but he has shown steady improvement since his first game and that’s what we want and should expect. If Watson and the Texans has all the improper officiating calls go against them we wouldn’t be having this conversation. And that’s not an excuse, just the truth. Next year with most of the offense returning with another year in the system and hopefully some added talent he should make marked improvement again. If not, then you can start to B word. Until then your expectations are ridiculous for a young qb who played Junior college ball and Wyoming and was expected to sit out his first year....
Meatloaf63 Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: You do realise this is a discussion board, right? What we do is discuss. Sure but doesn’t mean the discussion is good or educated... And he is right, Bean don’t care what some Tard from Canada posts on Twitter and who’s to say his break down is correct in the first place?
Phil The Thrill Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 It should be noted that Seth Galina routinely writes about bad Josh Allen is as a QB. Not saying he is wrong, but he’s far from an impartial evaluator 1
GunnerBill Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Meatloaf63 said: Sure but doesn’t mean the discussion is good or educated... And he is right, Bean don’t care what some Tard from Canada posts on Twitter and who’s to say his break down is correct in the first place? Well discussing whether the breakdown is right or not is part of the purpose of the thread. Rather than name calling why not contribute to the discussion? Edited January 7, 2020 by GunnerBill
MDH Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 47 minutes ago, Meatloaf63 said: Nope, it all starts with the offensive line. If it doesn’t give adequate protection especially in critical situations then everything becomes an issue after that. What did Zay, Benjamin do after they left here? Allen is still young and learning, but he is far from the problem here. 23 and learning on the job being compared to qb’s that have far more experience or far better weapons. The impatience around her is laughable. If he hadn’t improved since last year you might have a case, but he has shown steady improvement since his first game and that’s what we want and should expect. If Watson and the Texans has all the improper officiating calls go against them we wouldn’t be having this conversation. And that’s not an excuse, just the truth. Next year with most of the offense returning with another year in the system and hopefully some added talent he should make marked improvement again. If not, then you can start to B word. Until then your expectations are ridiculous for a young qb who played Junior college ball and Wyoming and was expected to sit out his first year.... You pretty much said what I said in my 2nd paragraph while giving the same types of excuses along the way that I mentioned in my 1st paragraph.
Hebert19 Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 6 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: There is no way to look at every play, in isolation, and not have some criticism. But that is true of every OC. Whether its McDaniels (who is booe'd by fans at Gillette) or Reid (or was boo'd in Philly for running too many screens), all OCs will make bad calls through a game. But, on the whole, when their offense executes, they are superb. The same will be true of Dabol. The proof is in the pudding--the films reveals that absent the execution errors, this game ends in a blow out. For me, its 90% on Allen and 10% on talent. I just think Allen is not seeing the whole field yet. He has improved dramatically, but he has a ways to go. If he takes that next step (similar to last season's jump), he, and this offense on a whole, will be elite. I am crazy excited for the future. This is where I am. He improves slightly next year and we have a solid QB capable of winning games with arm and feet. If hes able to make a similar jump as this year...we are in for a fun ride. In my opinion he is already the best QB we have had in 20 years. If he makes another leap he is the best QB we have ever had. 1
Meatloaf63 Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 1 hour ago, MDH said: You pretty much said what I said in my 2nd paragraph while giving the same types of excuses along the way that I mentioned in my 1st paragraph. Ah who knows what the heck I’m saying LOL .... I’ll shorten it, I’m good with Allen, we need more talent around him.... 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: Well discussing whether the breakdown is right or not is part of the purpose of the thread. Rather than name calling why not contribute to the discussion? I already have, and a better contribution than you have put forward...
JaCrispy Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, GunnerBill said: It isn't even that Daboll doesn't deserve any criticism. He does. It is just that you read this board and every offensive play that doesn't work is Brian Daboll's fault. Josh Allen makes a wrong read? Daboll's fault. Receiver drops a catchable ball? Daboll's fault. Three blockers fail to execute basic block in a game on the line position? Daboll's fault. Josh Allen checks into a run with 30 seconds left and 1 time out? Daboll's fault. It is particularly the case with Allen because there are some fans who will just put the blame anywhere else. But it is a theme of Bills fans for years. Always blame the offensive coordinator for not getting more out of sub standard offensive talent. You know when we had a decent offense? 2015 and 2016.... when we had two offensive linemen go to the pro bowl, Lesean McCoy still close to his prime, a decent tight end in Charles Clay (before his knee became positively arthritic) and talent at receiver - Watkins, Woods, Hogan, Harvin and Goodwin. Yes we had Greg Roman who was and is a very good offensive coordinator but we know those other guys are good because with the exception of Wood, who never played anywhere else, they all have solid NFL production in other spots before Buffalo, after Buffalo or both. I know I sound like a broken record. But I just can't stress how strongly I feel that the biggest problem offensively remains talent. We just don't have enough good players. And I should say that I don't think Josh played a bad game on Saturday and while I see the point on some of those clips, on others yes there might have been different places Josh could have gone with the ball but the places he did go were still somewhat effective in those situations. But firing Daboll is not the answer to improving our offense. Josh getting better and the Bills improving the talent around him is. This is how hyper sensitive some fans have become about the slightest criticism of Allen...makes it impossible to have rational dialogue...everyone’s automatically called a hater just to shut down the conversation...reminds me of Democrats calling everyone racist...? Edited January 7, 2020 by JaCrispy
GunnerBill Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 20 minutes ago, Meatloaf63 said: Ah who knows what the heck I’m saying LOL .... I’ll shorten it, I’m good with Allen, we need more talent around him.... I already have, and a better contribution than you have put forward... Have you?
BADOLBILZ Posted January 8, 2020 Posted January 8, 2020 6 hours ago, GunnerBill said: I disagree on 90% Allen and 10% the rest of the talent. I think it is about 40% Allen still growing, 40% the talent around him being sub standard and 10% scheme / playcalling. Could have said the same thing about Rex and his defense in Buffalo........if only they'd executed like it was drawn up! (I mean, if one were inclined to be objective.) A good coach/game caller puts the players he has in position to succeed. Sometimes that means limiting what you ask of them to........ya' know.......what they will do well. I'm waiting for the ?HEAT MAPS? on Daboll's offenses. 1
GunnerBill Posted January 8, 2020 Posted January 8, 2020 13 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: Could have said the same thing about Rex and his defense in Buffalo........if only they'd executed like it was drawn up! (I mean, if one were inclined to be objective.) A good coach/game caller puts the players he has in position to succeed. Sometimes that means limiting what you ask of them to........ya' know.......what they will do well. I'm waiting for the ?HEAT MAPS? on Daboll's offenses. I think limiting it beyond 3 blockers to one defender might be a little tricky, no? Again. Nobody here is saying Daboll is blameless. But on this forum he is to blame for everything.
Mr. WEO Posted January 8, 2020 Posted January 8, 2020 5 hours ago, ILBillsfan said: McKenzie also fell down coming out of his break but it’s not mentioned I mentioned it. He fell at the 20, Josh's pass was headed to the dirt short of that at the 23--where only the DB, who jumped the obv route, had a chance to catch....and even the had to dive to get hands win it. It was a bad throw, and telegraphed.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted January 8, 2020 Posted January 8, 2020 8 hours ago, Lurker said: IDK. I disagree with about half of his analysis. But, one thing I do agree on is that Josh needs to get rid of the ball quicker. That will be the year-3 make or break tell we'll have to look for... agree- he finds fault in plays that succeed. blames him for moving chains with decision without knowing progression. not worried. I believe he going to make his biggest jump next season. that deep post to brown tho.... he used to take those shots.... I’m positive he saw it.
stony Posted January 8, 2020 Posted January 8, 2020 4 hours ago, ILBillsfan said: The beauty of the internet everybody is an expert and if it matches your agenda you start a thread Or you discredit the source. 1
NoSaint Posted January 8, 2020 Posted January 8, 2020 7 hours ago, K-9 said: He lost me in the first tweet when he said the whole narrative is different if Houston hangs onto the pics. Really? Is that the only thing that changes the narrative? It is when your predetermined conclusion needs to be supported. As intellectually dishonest as it gets. disagree and frankly was making this point live in game. people leaned too heavy on outcome and not process in judging his first half. Up 16 points and no catastrophic outcomes with a couple nice highlights was enough for universal praise but there were several concerning plays he got away with. I’m not too proud to take some luck, as even the great ones get lucky bounces. But in evaluating his first half, yea, people were leaning too heavily on result to evaluate the actual play.
K-9 Posted January 8, 2020 Posted January 8, 2020 1 minute ago, NoSaint said: disagree and frankly was making this point live in game. people leaned too heavy on outcome and not process in judging his first half. Up 16 points and no catastrophic outcomes with a couple nice highlights was enough for universal praise but there were several concerning plays he got away with. I’m not too proud to take some luck, as even the great ones get lucky bounces. But in evaluating his first half, yea, people were leaning too heavily on result to evaluate the actual play. Of COURSE there were concerning plays. But that’s not my point. My point is that anyone can take any unsuccessful play and say that if that play were successful, then the narrative changes. Honest people don’t ascribe different outcomes to fictional results like this guy did.
IronyAbounds Posted January 8, 2020 Posted January 8, 2020 One of the guys at the 538 site summed it up pretty well in my mind. He said Allen is all tools, no toolbox. He can make just about any play at a given moment, but there is no orderly fashion to the way he plays. He may well put it all together, but it is just as likely he remains wildly inconsistent and unable to lead the Bills any farther than a first round playoff loss. My guess is that as was the case this year the team will have to depend on the defense to take it where we would love for it to go.
Scott7975 Posted January 8, 2020 Posted January 8, 2020 I didn’t really look at all this but one thing I’ve noticed about “good all 22 breakdowns”... most of them show “look how bad Josh is”...”here are a couple completions he made though”... yet they rarely if ever show “look at the plays that Josh would have made if someone else didn’t screw up.” this usually leads to the narrative of the “Josh is terrible worst ever qb type thing” when that is far from the truth.
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