Rc2catch Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 Just now, thebandit27 said: Clowney isn’t a pure pass rusher like Mack, so it’s not an apples to apples. He’s just as productive on a per-game basis when comparing TFLs and forced turnovers, and he’s a phenomenal run defender. I understand that. I’m not downing his talent I have watched him play a bunch. What I’m saying is what makes him probably 30 million dollars better than Lawson? From what I am seeing (just by stats) shaq is racking up TFL and QB hits just like clowney this year and he wasn’t even starting. I do get clowney has that burst to make an impact play every so often that few others can do. But are those rare impact plays worth the contract and games he misses? I guess my point is I think the defense is better production wise in a 16 game season with a shaq and Murphy rotation than the few games you actually see a 100% clowney. And shaq (even with a new deal) and Murphy together still might cost less than clowney.
PIZ Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 Do you think Beane will go after any of the Colts OL free agents? OL coach Johnson should know if they are worth pursuing: Anthony Costonzo – OT – 32 – UFA Josh Andrews – OG – 29 – UFA Joe Haeg – OG – 26 – UFA
thebandit27 Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 Just now, Rc2catch said: I understand that. I’m not downing his talent I have watched him play a bunch. What I’m saying is what makes him probably 30 million dollars better than Lawson? From what I am seeing (just by stats) shaq is racking up TFL and QB hits just like clowney this year and he wasn’t even starting. I do get clowney has that burst to make an impact play every so often that few others can do. But are those rare impact plays worth the contract and games he misses? I guess my point is I think the defense is better production wise in a 16 game season with a shaq and Murphy rotation than the few games you actually see a 100% clowney. And shaq (even with a new deal) and Murphy together still might cost less than clowney. My opinion on that is that Clowney isn’t in a system that is best suited for him, which was often the case in Houston as well. In Seattle, they’ve used lighter, faster EDGE guys like Avril and Clark and gotten great production from them. Plugging in a stouter, speed-to-power player isn’t going to yield the same results. As far as speed-to-power EDGE guys go, Clowney is among the best I’ve seen since Mario. Garrett is currently the best in the game; Shaq is starting to come into his own. With the way McDermott’s scheme uses a speed-to-power guy at LDE, I can easily see Clowney being a Shaq-on-roids type in this D. 2
Boca BIlls Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 3 hours ago, Mrbojanglezs said: give the press a damn mic That is done on purpose actually. 39 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: McDermott and Beane care about what they are putting out on the field. It's good to see such dedication to ones job. 1
Rc2catch Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 2 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: My opinion on that is that Clowney isn’t in a system that is best suited for him, which was often the case in Houston as well. In Seattle, they’ve used lighter, faster EDGE guys like Avril and Clark and gotten great production from them. Plugging in a stouter, speed-to-power player isn’t going to yield the same results. As far as speed-to-power EDGE guys go, Clowney is among the best I’ve seen since Mario. Garrett is currently the best in the game; Shaq is starting to come into his own. With the way McDermott’s scheme uses a speed-to-power guy at LDE, I can easily see Clowney being a Shaq-on-roids type in this D. I can see it as well. My issue is the contract vs production. Everyone gets hurt. But he’s been hurt literally every year he’s been in the league. I’m not 100% sure what his contract demands are going to be, but a monster deal for him could actually have a monster Impact on this teams progress if the injury trend continues or gets worse. I also think it says a terrible message to our team. Shaq busted butt and got better every year, but instead of paying him we will give the money to this other guy who has more talent but hasn’t produced as good as shaq did for us. He’s more talented than anyone we have on the line. I can’t debate against his impact on a game when he shows up. For me anyways he’s a luxury signing. Teams like KC or even New Orleans of old can gamble like that because their offense is getting them to the playoffs. If clowney is hurt not too big of a deal Brees will just throw an extra 15 passes to keep them in the game. We don’t have that luxury.. yet. 16 minutes ago, PIZ said: Do you think Beane will go after any of the Colts OL free agents? OL coach Johnson should know if they are worth pursuing: Anthony Costonzo – OT – 32 – UFA Josh Andrews – OG – 29 – UFA Joe Haeg – OG – 26 – UFA Costanzo I believe will only play for the colts. I read somewhere he stated he’ll retire if Indy doesn’t want him anymore.
K-9 Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 31 minutes ago, Rc2catch said: They could always franchise tag him, let him and his agent seek a trade, trading team has to pay him. Jerk move but the smart business route And? It’s not news he’s ALWAYS hurt Well, the tag amount for DTs was just north of $15m for this year. Given our needs in other areas, I wouldn’t be surprised at all if Beane and Co. thought that was too high. 2
Alphadawg7 Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 1 hour ago, DCOrange said: Only thing I saw was mentioning that he had worked hard the past few weeks and deserved the increased reps he saw against Houston. But they also made it pretty clear they're upgrading at WR this offseason. McD was quite complimentary to Duke actually. I would expand and say they didn’t make it clear that they are cleaning house at WR or going to make a huge move. The press specifically pressed them on questions about WR. And they downplayed the urgency that was expressed in the question by saying its one of many positions they will look at. Clearly WR will be a priority, but I do not think they are going to look at a big free agent signing at WR based on his comments about the position and also the comments on the approach to free agency this year. So I think it’s going to come down to addressing WR in the first or second round depending how the board falls if I was to predict now. They may add some lower tier competition is FA, but i didn’t come away thinking they would go after the likely top 3 FA WRs in Cooper, Green, or Anderson this year like some are hoping. 1
dave mcbride Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 51 minutes ago, Rc2catch said: I am nowhere near that confident. Guy has 3 sacks in his contract year in Seattle. Trent Murphy put up better numbers. Shaq has more everything than clowney had this year. And he’s going to want Mack kind of money for worse production than Trent Murphy and he’s extremely injury prone? I can’t see the love Check out his TFL stats. They are great. He was banged up this year and missed time, but when he's on, he's unstoppable. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/ClowJa00.htm
Rc2catch Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 6 minutes ago, K-9 said: Well, the tag amount for DTs was just north of $15m for this year. Given our needs in other areas, I wouldn’t be surprised at all if Beane and Co. thought that was too high. If they traded him it wouldn’t matter. It would basically just be a cheap way to get a earlier comp pick. Nobody is giving more than a 3 or 4 for him when they have to pay him. Which is likely what we’d get if he gets a big deal somewhere else. Depending if they don’t invest much into free agency.
Rc2catch Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: Check out his TFL stats. They are great. He was banged up this year and missed time, but when he's on, he's unstoppable. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/ClowJa00.htm I did look. His best was 21 TFL. He played almost 900 snaps that season. It was his healthiest season. The Texans were also 4-12 with Watson and Watt hurt Shaq had 13 this year and didn’t start. It’s possible to say with an extra 150-200 snaps he could of gotten 20. He played 480 snaps this year. Shaq had like 18 hits on the qb this season clowneys best was 21. So as bad as we knock shaq for being a pass rusher he’s getting to the quarterback more than clowney. Clowney has the edge on forcing fumbles with that insanely fast impact play. Nobody in the league can bust through like that. My point wouldn’t ever be Lawson is a better or more impactful player. The only question I have is the money clowney may be asking for. Shaq can produce at a slightly less level for half the money. He’s also trended up every year and may still get better. Can’t say if he’s peaked yet until next season. Edited January 7, 2020 by Rc2catch
dave mcbride Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Rc2catch said: I did look. His best was 21 TFL. He played almost 900 snaps that season. It was his healthiest season. The Texans were also 4-12 with Watson and Watt hurt Shaq had 13 this year and didn’t start. It’s possible to say with an extra 150-200 snaps he could of gotten 20. He played 480 snaps this year. Shaq had like 18 hits on the qb this season clowneys best was 21. So as bad as we knock shaq for being a pass rusher he’s getting to the quarterback more than clowney. Clowney has the edge on forcing fumbles with that insanely fast impact play. Nobody in the league can bust through like that. My point wouldn’t ever be Lawson is a better or more impactful player. The only question I have is the money clowney may be asking for. Shaq can produce at a slightly less level for half the money. He’s also trended up every year and may still get better. Can’t say if he’s peaked yet until next season. The thing is, for the next two seasons the Bills are going to be swimming in a sea of open cap space because they're not paying a QB. Get a couple of difference makers that put them over the top, not "nice players." They were 4-12 that year because for 10 games, their quarterbacks were Tom Savage and TJ Yates. Edited January 7, 2020 by dave mcbride 1
Rc2catch Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 1 minute ago, dave mcbride said: The thing is, for the next two seasons the Bills are going to be swimming in a sea of open cap space because they're not paying a QB. Get a couple of difference makers that put them over the top, not "nice players." He is only a difference maker when he’s healthy. A deal for someone like him costs you for 4-5 years. What if the injury trend gets worse? You have a broken down end at 15-20 million who is only healthy a couple games a year? Beane can’t work his magic on a contract like this, there won’t be any outs without severe repercussions in year 2 or 3. Clowney is trending down. There can be injuries to anyone. But to invest top defensive end money to someone this injury prone is not good team building. He will play through but he’s invisible a lot of times cause he’s not playing at full strength. I get everyone being hyped over the philly game. Just don’t see it as a smart investment.
dave mcbride Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) 1 minute ago, Rc2catch said: He is only a difference maker when he’s healthy. A deal for someone like him costs you for 4-5 years. What if the injury trend gets worse? You have a broken down end at 15-20 million who is only healthy a couple games a year? Beane can’t work his magic on a contract like this, there won’t be any outs without severe repercussions in year 2 or 3. Clowney is trending down. There can be injuries to anyone. But to invest top defensive end money to someone this injury prone is not good team building. He will play through but he’s invisible a lot of times cause he’s not playing at full strength. I get everyone being hyped over the philly game. Just don’t see it as a smart investment. It's less the Philly game than the SF game. It might have been the best game I've seen played by a DE all season. I also think we're in a place where we can roll the dice a little. I want to win the division, and we need some better players. Edited January 7, 2020 by dave mcbride 1
dave mcbride Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 7 minutes ago, Rc2catch said: He is only a difference maker when he’s healthy. A deal for someone like him costs you for 4-5 years. What if the injury trend gets worse? You have a broken down end at 15-20 million who is only healthy a couple games a year? Beane can’t work his magic on a contract like this, there won’t be any outs without severe repercussions in year 2 or 3. Clowney is trending down. There can be injuries to anyone. But to invest top defensive end money to someone this injury prone is not good team building. He will play through but he’s invisible a lot of times cause he’s not playing at full strength. I get everyone being hyped over the philly game. Just don’t see it as a smart investment. PS - For the reasons you state above, I don't think the Bills will target him. That doesn't seem to be their way, for better or worse. 1
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 2 hours ago, HOF4LOU said: Did Beane or McD say anything about Duke? I anticipate they will probably have a stand-alone press conference to only discuss Duke. 2
YoloinOhio Posted January 7, 2020 Author Posted January 7, 2020 2 hours ago, HOF4LOU said: Did Beane or McD say anything about Duke? McDermott did
Rc2catch Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 4 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: PS - For the reasons you state above, I don't think the Bills will target him. That doesn't seem to be their way, for better or worse. Hey I fully agree we’re in need of impact players. Guys who make big plays. And Beane has proven one thing since being here, he’s unpredictable. I can’t even count since day one how many moves he’s made where I scratched my head between the trades and free agency. Looking back though I get it all now. There’s still only one move I question and that was cutting Jonathan Williams on his rookie deal. I didn’t think he was great or anything but it didn’t make sense to cut him. I still don’t get that. He was practice squad eligible and we ran Tolbert, Taiwan and Banyard I think that year. I have zero doubts these guys will find us some impactful players rather it’s trade, draft or free agency. I expect a great pass rusher and receiver and a complimentary back. Everyone knows we need it. He’ll find it. 1
tcampbell104 Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 3 hours ago, Bangarang said: I wouldn’t mind re-signing Spain but what do you do with Ford at that point? He’s not good at RT and you can’t justify starting him over Spain or Feliciano. I’m sure he’d stay at RT but he’s likely to be a liability players can improve from their first to second season, if cordy is the starting rt next year lets hope we see a lot of improvement!
MAJBobby Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 I think this directly clashes with the HC mindset on the situation discussed.
Reed83HOF Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 19 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: PS - For the reasons you state above, I don't think the Bills will target him. That doesn't seem to be their way, for better or worse. we also could have traded a 3rd for him and didn't...
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