ngbills Posted January 8, 2020 Posted January 8, 2020 9 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: It really wasn't. Brown was headed to the deep corner of the end zone. He was still on the numbers at the 10 when Josh threw. The throw led him outside and shallow. It would've been better if he'd put a soft touch throw up leading him straight. Could've been a TD not within range of the boundary. Still, it was a catchable ball and Brown just made a mistake by not dragging his feet. Bingo. This is my point. Both players had a part in this and will work to improve upon it. Brown needs to make that catch but Josh throw was not perfect. We need to get in the end zone and better throws and this team scores a ton more TD's. 6 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: right and In most nfl offenses to my knowledge, corner routes aren’t arbitrary depths depending on what the WR feels like doing, they are defined. In this case the corner route covered exactly 20 yards from the line of scrimmage, from the 22 to the sideline 2, exactly as it was run and thrown. perfect execution until the poor footwork by brown 6 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: just as Browns arm starts to go up, Josh has already start throwing and brown has already made his break in a line right to the 2 TD line, exactly 20 yards from the line of scrimmage. I guess you are accustomed to a run an shoot offense without defined routes? Most routes beyond a few yards have some flexibility in todays game. Its not the pee wee leagues of follow this cones and stop right there. WR and QB adjust balls ALL THE TIME. Come on now.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted January 8, 2020 Author Posted January 8, 2020 (edited) 51 minutes ago, ngbills said: Bingo. This is my point. Both players had a part in this and will work to improve upon it. Brown needs to make that catch but Josh throw was not perfect. We need to get in the end zone and better throws and this team scores a ton more TD's. Most routes beyond a few yards have some flexibility in todays game. Its not the pee wee leagues of follow this cones and stop right there. WR and QB adjust balls ALL THE TIME. Come on now. 1) adjusting to balls does not top Browns list of skills as a complete side note. 2) flexible routes are called option routes. You are gravely mistaken if you believe WRs can do what they feel like especially on a corner route after a break. What do you think they are talking about when they “say precise route runner?” 3) the west coast offense is so precise in fact WRs are counting steps in your head the nfl isn’t schoolyard ball! What do you think they are practicing every single day....? hey yo WR guy go run around all over until you get open?? Edited January 8, 2020 by Over 29 years of fanhood 1
ngbills Posted January 8, 2020 Posted January 8, 2020 1 hour ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: 1) adjusting to balls does not top Browns list of skills as a complete side note. 2) flexible routes are called option routes. You are gravely mistaken if you believe WRs can do what they feel like especially on a corner route after a break. What do you think they are talking about when they “say precise route runner?” 3) the west coast offense is so precise in fact WRs are counting steps in your head the nfl isn’t schoolyard ball! What do you think they are practicing every single day....? hey yo WR guy go run around all over until you get open?? There is a big difference between hey I know my route is an out but I will run a post and taking a corner route deeper or sharper. Allen puts more touch on the pass and angles it further from the sideline and brown can slightly adjust his route. Brown in this case needed to slow down because the ball was late and angle towards the sideline sharply.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted January 8, 2020 Author Posted January 8, 2020 4 minutes ago, ngbills said: There is a big difference between hey I know my route is an out but I will run a post and taking a corner route deeper or sharper. Allen puts more touch on the pass and angles it further from the sideline and brown can slightly adjust his route. Brown in this case needed to slow down because the ball was late and angle towards the sideline sharply. Go watch Brown run that corner route 20 other time this season from that hash. You will see it is exactly the same spot where he breaks and where he approaches the sideline. you can argue the earth is flat all you want. Peyton Manning would have thrown that same ball to that same spot at that same time, because that’s how that play was designed. ive attached some nice reference material to help you. The route was 7 (corner) the break is 45 degrees, not 50 degrees or 30 degrees depending on how spry the wr is feeling or where the Endzone is. please educate yourself. https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2016841-nfl-101-breaking-down-the-basics-of-the-route-tree 1 1
ngbills Posted January 9, 2020 Posted January 9, 2020 19 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Go watch Brown run that corner route 20 other time this season from that hash. You will see it is exactly the same spot where he breaks and where he approaches the sideline. you can argue the earth is flat all you want. Peyton Manning would have thrown that same ball to that same spot at that same time, because that’s how that play was designed. ive attached some nice reference material to help you. The route was 7 (corner) the break is 45 degrees, not 50 degrees or 30 degrees depending on how spry the wr is feeling or where the Endzone is. please educate yourself. https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2016841-nfl-101-breaking-down-the-basics-of-the-route-tree Thank you for the route tree explanation. That is what I spent a big chunk of time teaching high school players. This is the NFL. Guys dont run paper routes. Go watch the good WR / QB tandems out there and you will see what I am talking about. If a DB is playing you man to man your route will need to be adjusted based on coverage - man vs zone, how tight is playing you, if he is trailing you or what side he is on, where the first down marker is, the goal line, etc. In this case the guy was trailing Brown so he did not need a sharp 45 degree but should take the route deeper. Think about that - a sharper turn gets the defender in better position to make a play. You create separation you want to keep it. Go watch the Bills practice and I guarantee you will see what I am talking about. It is what they call good chemistry between QB and WR. They are on the same page knowing when a guy will take the sharp 45 angle or take it up field slightly vs cut in sharper - all dependent on where the defender is.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted January 9, 2020 Author Posted January 9, 2020 35 minutes ago, ngbills said: Thank you for the route tree explanation. That is what I spent a big chunk of time teaching high school players. This is the NFL. Guys dont run paper routes. Go watch the good WR / QB tandems out there and you will see what I am talking about. If a DB is playing you man to man your route will need to be adjusted based on coverage - man vs zone, how tight is playing you, if he is trailing you or what side he is on, where the first down marker is, the goal line, etc. In this case the guy was trailing Brown so he did not need a sharp 45 degree but should take the route deeper. Think about that - a sharper turn gets the defender in better position to make a play. You create separation you want to keep it. Go watch the Bills practice and I guarantee you will see what I am talking about. It is what they call good chemistry between QB and WR. They are on the same page knowing when a guy will take the sharp 45 angle or take it up field slightly vs cut in sharper - all dependent on where the defender is. Brown made his break before the throw and was hit in stride on the line he was running. instead of dragging his feet or even just keeping his stride he pulled his knees up body catching the ball, turning an easy catch into a college incompletion. I don’t know what else to tell you. It was a perfect a throw as anyone can make there and should have been caught. WRs are not freelancing on routes that aren’t predefined options in Daboll offense, Beasley talked about this 17 times over the season. The earth is round
dakrider Posted January 9, 2020 Posted January 9, 2020 That throw to Brown was absolutely perfect. Right on the sideline IN BOUNDS. Brown caught the ball well inside the sideline and he simply did not bother to try and drag his foot either because he lost his awareness he was next to the sideline or he simply didn't want to fall down. The sad thing was he didn't even attempt to get his foot down. ANY NFL receiver should be able to make THAT catch and get their feet down 100% of the time. Its ludicrous to even pretend that was Allen's fault there. The other throw to Brown where he went out of bounds was on him as well. Receivers know better that they cannot go out of bounds and only times that should ever happen is if they get knocked out of bounds by the defender. These are some reasons Brown was let go by Baltimore. And also, one reason Roby didn't intercept that pass was because Josh doesn't float this passes out there like a lot of QB's do. That same pass from Barkley would have been a easy pick 6.
ngbills Posted January 9, 2020 Posted January 9, 2020 54 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Brown made his break before the throw and was hit in stride on the line he was running. instead of dragging his feet or even just keeping his stride he pulled his knees up body catching the ball, turning an easy catch into a college incompletion. I don’t know what else to tell you. It was a perfect a throw as anyone can make there and should have been caught. WRs are not freelancing on routes that aren’t predefined options in Daboll offense, Beasley talked about this 17 times over the season. The earth is round And the only way around the round earth is by boat. No plane or other options available. It can be something other than perfect throw and bad catch. It can be bad catch, but different throw should have been made. If the plays are really that rigid then maybe that is why the offense struggled. "Hey, I have to run straight toward where the defender is waiting so I wont be open. Never thought if I angle away from the coverage then I become open." I simply dont believe any of these coaches would have jobs in the NFL or college if they were sticking to pee wee and high school playbooks. Hmm let me think...here is what I could find in less than 5 mins. There was also an article in The Athletic a few weeks ago on Cole Beasley and how he has benefited from flexible route running. 1. A matter of trust. Brown didn’t get open the way the route was designed on the touchdown pass with 3:00 left. It was a stutter-step-and-go route down the left sideline. “It was just a double move, and the defensive guy had great position on the ball,” Brown said of Jets cornerback Darryl Roberts. “It was supposed to be thrown over the top, but the guy took the top off of it.” Recognizing the need to adjust, Allen showed trust in Brown to stop his route short and make a play. Allen threw it as if it was a back-shoulder play, and Brown caught the ball in front of Roberts, who couldn’t change direction in time. “The guy had great coverage, and Josh was able to see it,” Brown said. “That takes a lot of trust. The guy had great coverage, and I was just able to come back to the ball. … Josh just made a perfect throw.”
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted January 9, 2020 Author Posted January 9, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, ngbills said: And the only way around the round earth is by boat. No plane or other options available. It can be something other than perfect throw and bad catch. It can be bad catch, but different throw should have been made. If the plays are really that rigid then maybe that is why the offense struggled. "Hey, I have to run straight toward where the defender is waiting so I wont be open. Never thought if I angle away from the coverage then I become open." I simply dont believe any of these coaches would have jobs in the NFL or college if they were sticking to pee wee and high school playbooks. Hmm let me think...here is what I could find in less than 5 mins. There was also an article in The Athletic a few weeks ago on Cole Beasley and how he has benefited from flexible route running. 1. A matter of trust. Brown didn’t get open the way the route was designed on the touchdown pass with 3:00 left. It was a stutter-step-and-go route down the left sideline. “It was just a double move, and the defensive guy had great position on the ball,” Brown said of Jets cornerback Darryl Roberts. “It was supposed to be thrown over the top, but the guy took the top off of it.” Recognizing the need to adjust, Allen showed trust in Brown to stop his route short and make a play. Allen threw it as if it was a back-shoulder play, and Brown caught the ball in front of Roberts, who couldn’t change direction in time. “The guy had great coverage, and Josh was able to see it,” Brown said. “That takes a lot of trust. The guy had great coverage, and I was just able to come back to the ball. … Josh just made a perfect throw.” Ok fine in the nfl WRs can run deep corner routes however they feel like. Brown is an idiot for running it the same way every time. Allen is an idiot for not throwing it to a different spot then where Brown was running to. Daboll is an idiot for not telling guys to run wherever they want to and Defining the options for opinion routes as opposed to just saying the option for option routes is do whatever you want man- just get open Stevie Johnson style. Got it. All Clear on your take of NFL offenses. Edited January 9, 2020 by Over 29 years of fanhood
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