PFT: Uncalled helmet to helmet hit on Allen in OT could have set up GW FG

[apuszczalowski]

But common sense says that the Texans player didn't intend to make a helmet to helmet hit so quit your whining it was the proper call......

[SirAndrew]

7 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

That was a nasty hit, the one by Clowney  On Wentz was worse and more obvious and also wasn’t called.  Refs were not very good last weekend.. it happens sadly.

Absolutely, officiating was bad this weekend, but the Buffalo Bills also played terrible fundamentally unsound football. Sadly, people seem unwilling to except that. We had a good season, and I look forward to next year. Hopefully we can improve as a team. I’ll look forward to that, as opposed to worrying about officiating. 

[Gordio]

13 hours ago, Devilmann said:

Bottom line we’re up 16-0 in the 3rd. It shouldn’t have come down to depending on penalties to win that game. It’s time to get over it all. It was a all around team loss plain and simple. 

 

 

This is a horrible argument. So we blew a 16 point lead.  That excuses the refs from 3 absolutely game altering horrible calls against the Bills in OT where any one of them would of changed the outcome of the game.

 

- The helmet to helmet hit on Allen would of setup the Bills 1st & 10 at the Houston 27

- The no call on delay of game which would of put the titans at 3rd & 23 inside their 10 yard line

- The phantom call on Ford would of put the Bills 4th & 6 at the Houston 37.  

 

Get the hell out of here with your BS.  Bills fans are sick of getting screwed & for people that keep saying every team gets blown calls against them, that maybe true but it sure seems that it happens to the Bills a lot.  

[apuszczalowski]

1 minute ago, Gordio said:

 

 

This is a horrible argument. So we blew a 16 point lead.  That excuses the refs from 3 absolutely game altering horrible calls against the Bills in OT where any one of them would of changed the outcome of the game.

 

- The helmet to helmet hit on Allen would of setup the Bills 1st & 10 at the Houston 27

- The no call on delay of game which would of put the titans at 3rd & 23 inside their 10 yard line

- The phantom call on Ford would of put the Bills 4th & 6 at the Houston 37.  

 

Get the hell out of here with your BS.  Bills fans are sick of getting screwed & for people that keep saying every team gets blown calls against them, that maybe true but it sure seems that it happens to the Bills a lot.  

I would argue less about the Bills losing because they were screwed by the refs and more about an offence that struggled to get 20 points against one of the worst passing defences in the league. Very few defences are regularly going to hold teams to less then 20 points in a game, and penalties are called all the time against (almost) all teams on the league affecting games.

[Gordio]

1 minute ago, apuszczalowski said:

I would argue less about the Bills losing because they were screwed by the refs and more about an offence that struggled to get 20 points against one of the worst passing defences in the league. Very few defences are regularly going to hold teams to less then 20 points in a game, and penalties are called all the time against (almost) all teams on the league affecting games.

 

 

Your missing the point.  3 bad calls went against the Bills in OT that any one of them would of changed the game.  Not one offense last weekend in the 4 games played put up more than 20 points in regulation.  Do they all deserve to lose?  The Bills made mistakes but played well enough to win if the refs did their jobs.  

[PatsFanNH]

15 minutes ago, Gordio said:

 

 

This is a horrible argument. So we blew a 16 point lead.  That excuses the refs from 3 absolutely game altering horrible calls against the Bills in OT where any one of them would of changed the outcome of the game.

 

- The helmet to helmet hit on Allen would of setup the Bills 1st & 10 at the Houston 27

- The no call on delay of game which would of put the titans at 3rd & 23 inside their 10 yard line

- The phantom call on Ford would of put the Bills 4th & 6 at the Houston 37.  

 

Get the hell out of here with your BS.  Bills fans are sick of getting screwed & for people that keep saying every team gets blown calls against them, that maybe true but it sure seems that it happens to the Bills a lot.  

As I mentioned the Wentz hit was worse AND the Eagles lost him for the entire game... They have the right complain about a blown call.. heck Clowney should have been kicked out of the game! Let’s be honest losing your star QB for the game hard overcome. 

 

The Saints AGAIN got screwed by a non OPI call that gave the Vikings the win in OT. 
 

Titans got away with numerous PI with no call. (Pats lost because of play calling IMO not refs)

 

meanwhile the Bills had this happen and still had a real chance to win if the D makes the sack and Watson doesn’t do that Houdini move to get away and complete that pass in OT.

 

My point is EVERY team could gripe about the Refs this weekend.. if ANYONE was screwed it was the Saints and Eagles.  

[Big Turk]

Just so irritating that the Texans are apparently so well coached and disciplined that they committed 0 in-game penalties against us.  Total BS.  Meanwhile they are calling ticky tack stuff against us like Ford's block.  Yeah, I know they were following the "NFL Rules" of what constitutes a blindside block but funny how they didn't use the same criteria for the 2nd half kickoff that would have been a TD for the Bills if they used the same measuring stick.

[apuszczalowski]

6 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

Just so irritating that the Texans are apparently so well coached and disciplined that they committed 0 in-game penalties against us.  Total BS.  Meanwhile they are calling ticky tack stuff against us like Ford's block.  Yeah, I know they were following the "NFL Rules" of what constitutes a blindside block but funny how they didn't use the same criteria for the 2nd half kickoff that would have been a TD for the Bills if they used the same measuring stick.

But common sense says the Texans players intent was giving himself up while common sense says that Ford intended to run a blind sided block on the player.......

[Doc]

7 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

Just so irritating that the Texans are apparently so well coached and disciplined that they committed 0 in-game penalties against us.  Total BS.  Meanwhile they are calling ticky tack stuff against us like Ford's block.  Yeah, I know they were following the "NFL Rules" of what constitutes a blindside block but funny how they didn't use the same criteria for the 2nd half kickoff that would have been a TD for the Bills if they used the same measuring stick.

Except they didn’t follow the rules for Ford’s block. The defender saw him coming and as such was able to absorb the impact.  

[BADOLBILZ]

13 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

What missed calls were there against the Texans? And what unfair calls were made against them? Any at all that you can point out besides the unbelievably high number of in-play penalties called against Houston over the course of nearly five quarters? ?

 

 

In fairness..........the Bills coached this into a close game.

 

They had the better team with less pressure on them and they got out to a big lead and should have won with ease despite the officiating discrepancy.

 

I believe the narrative that one score games are indicative of "evenly matched" teams is mostly wives-tale material and that eventually analytics will show that the way they've shown that teams should be much more aggressive on 4th downs etc..

[Big Turk]

Just now, Doc said:

Except they didn’t follow the rules for Ford’s block. The defender saw him coming and as such was able to absorb the impact.  

 

The NFL Rule doesn't specify that the player has to not see him. It's more about his positioning of his body and the direction traveling.

[dave mcbride]

Just now, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

In fairness..........the Bills coached this into a close game.

 

They had the better team with less pressure on them and they got out to a big lead and should have won with ease despite the officiating discrepancy.

 

I believe the narrative that one score games are indicative of "evenly matched" teams is mostly wives-tale material and that eventually analytics will show that the way they've shown that teams should be much more aggressive on 4th downs etc..

Agree 100 percent - I just think that refereeing tilts (and there clearly was one in this game) can be decisive in close games. Of course, the refs didn't cause Duke Williams to drop a TD pass, Allen to carelessly fumble at midfield, the Bills to play behind the sticks on a 3rd and 18, and Neal/Milano to fail to make an easy tackle on the game's decisive play.

[Dr. Who]

1 hour ago, SirAndrew said:

Absolutely, officiating was bad this weekend, but the Buffalo Bills also played terrible fundamentally unsound football. Sadly, people seem unwilling to except that. We had a good season, and I look forward to next year. Hopefully we can improve as a team. I’ll look forward to that, as opposed to worrying about officiating. 

I really haven't read anyone who did not admit the meltdown in the fourth and OT. So, I think everyone "accepts" that.

All the same, if you go by the letter of the law, the Bills have points off the second half kickoff. The Texans played an entire game and had zero "in play" penalties.

There were numerous pretty obvious "non-calls" that should have been in the Bills' favor and one obvious "call" against Ford that shouldn't have been.

Bills are not yet good enough to overcome nearly all the breaks and nearly all the calls going against them. 

[dave mcbride]

57 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

As I mentioned the Wentz hit was worse AND the Eagles lost him for the entire game... They have the right complain about a blown call.. heck Clowney should have been kicked out of the game! Let’s be honest losing your star QB for the game hard overcome. 

 

The Saints AGAIN got screwed by a non OPI call that gave the Vikings the win in OT. 
 

Titans got away with numerous PI with no call. (Pats lost because of play calling IMO not refs)

 

meanwhile the Bills had this happen and still had a real chance to win if the D makes the sack and Watson doesn’t do that Houdini move to get away and complete that pass in OT.

 

My point is EVERY team could gripe about the Refs this weekend.. if ANYONE was screwed it was the Saints and Eagles.  

Disagree about the Saints game. There was a ton of hand checking, and the stronger person won. That happens all the time and TEs get away with it all the time. The decisive play was the one right after Lattimore left the field. You can't let Thielen get behind the defense on a play that was as easy to predict as the sun coming up in the morning (because their best DB was out). 

[Big Turk]

13 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

What missed calls were there against the Texans? And what unfair calls were made against them? Any at all that you can point out besides the unbelievably high number of in-play penalties called against Houston over the course of nearly five quarters? ?

 

Oh let's see...I'm sure there were probably at least 5 holding calls against Hughes that didn't get called as usual it seems every game. Actually if you go back to the 3rd and 18 play I believe Hughes is getting arm wrapped around the neck. The helmet to helmet hit on Allen that didn't get called.  I'm sure there were several other plays that were worthy of penalties. There always are and some usually get called, except this game they didn't.  I mean hell, they couldn't even call the delay of game properly on the 3rd and 18 play when the play clock was expired for a full 2 seconds before the snap.

[dave mcbride]

Just now, matter2003 said:

 

Oh let's see...I'm sure there were probably at least 5 holding calls against Hughes that didn't get called as usual it seems every game. Actually if you go back to the 3rd and 18 play I believe Hughes is getting arm wrapped around the neck. The helmet to helmet hit on Allen that didn't get called.  I'm sure there were several other plays that were worthy of penalties. There always are and some usually get called, except this game they didn't.  I mean hell, they couldn't even call the delay of game properly on the 3rd and 18 play when the play clock was expired for a full 2 seconds before the snap.

I think you misread my post!!

[BADOLBILZ]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

Agree 100 percent - I just think that refereeing tilts (and there clearly was one in this game) can be decisive in close games. Of course, the refs didn't cause Duke Williams to drop a TD pass, Allen to carelessly fumble at midfield, the Bills to play behind the sticks on a 3rd and 18, and Neal/Milano to fail to make an easy tackle on the game's decisive play.

 

 

Oh it's obvious and undeniable that officiating decides close games.    When there is little margin for error.......it happens.   

 

But FAR too many games end up closer than they should be.     And the question is would the NFL be better off if they weren't?   The drama and controversy sells.

 

Much of the drama has been taken out of MLB games by the precision of data available.    The NFL doesn't create sample sizes that are easy enough to break down like MLB so it's going to take more time to get to the same point.    But will the NFL game be as fun without all these kookie random finishes?    It's a product.   I think the quality of officiating has something to do with the fact that the NFL fears what will happen with more precise management.

 

Right now there is an advantage in being a team that's out in front of the curve and realizes how to get leads and play with leads.    The Bills are one of the more progressive teams in terms of their physical training they need to get in front of the mental training aspect and take advantage while the getting is good and there are meatheads like Bill O'Brien still coaching.   

[dave mcbride]

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Oh it's obvious and undeniable that officiating decides close games.    When there is little margin for error.......it happens.   

 

But FAR too many games end up closer than they should be.     And the question is would the NFL be better off if they weren't?   The drama and controversy sells.

 

Much of the drama has been taken out of MLB games by the precision of data available.    The NFL doesn't create sample sizes that are easy enough to break down like MLB so it's going to take more time to get to the same point.    But will the NFL game be as fun without all these kookie random finishes?    It's a product.   I think the quality of officiating has something to do with the fact that the NFL fears what will happen with more precise management.

 

Right now there is an advantage in being a team that's out in front of the curve and realizes how to get leads and play with leads.    The Bills are one of the more progressive teams in terms of their physical training they need to get in front of the mental training aspect and take advantage while the getting is good and there are meatheads like Bill O'Brien still coaching.   

Good point. I think Riveron and the referees' clear grudge against the Saints/Payton is at WWF-levels now (partly because the league hasn't forgotten Bountygate and loathes seeing Payton play the martyr). It's drama and entertainment for sure with that situation, and it generates eyeballs.

[Doc]

19 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

The NFL Rule doesn't specify that the player has to not see him. It's more about his positioning of his body and the direction traveling.

 
The “blindside” block, which is what it was called, needs for a player not to see the block coming and that’s not be able to brace himself, which exposes him to a greater risk of injury.  And then there’s always common sense…

But if we’re going by the letter of the law, I’ll take the fumble in the end zone touchdown and give them this.  Can’t have it both ways. Never mind the letter of the law penalties that they committed against theBills that weren't called.

Edited January 7, 2020 by Doc

[iinii]

Shoulda, coulda, woulda. All the hand wringing over perceived missed calls is for whiners. To make everything right in the world why doesn’t the NFL put Buffalo and NO in the Super Bowl?