Should season ticket holders protest?

[GoBills808]

If someone can find me just ONE example of a kickoff returner making the safe signal, catching the ball, and then handing it to the ref WITHOUT kneeling first I will never speak of this again. 

[KD in CA]

Of all the cluster*****s in the last 30 minutes of that game (there were 387 by my count), this is the play people are clinging to?   Come on....

[May Day 10]

How many seconds, and what degree of intent does a returner need to show before a play is determined to be unreturnable and the returner can just throw the ball on the ground?

 

Isnt it just easier to go by the written rules of fair catch, bounce in the end zone, or kneel?

Edited January 7, 2020 by May Day 10

[K-9]

2 minutes ago, Billl said:

I don’t think you need the bold.  If you remove the last comma, it works.  As written (poorly), the “no effort to advance” portion applies to the entire section.  Rules simply can’t be written perfectly enough to cover every eventuality.  This is why common sense must be applied.  If it’s going to be enforced differently, it needs to first be made a public point of emphasis.

I think what transpired on Saturday just may serve as the catalyst for it to be made a public point of emphasis. Witness this debate in this thread. Glad you’re also a fan of common sense. That makes three in this thread, I think.

[Real McClappy]

9 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Obviously not. He signaled TD Bills, after all. 

so, it's text book 101?

 

5 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

If someone can find me just ONE example of a kickoff returner making the safe signal, catching the ball, and then handing it to the ref WITHOUT kneeling first I will never speak of this again. 

Not even kneeling, tossing the ball away like a fool before the whistle is at least blown. You might find a video out there of a similar scenario but would almost guarantee you will hear a whistle blow before the player chucks it to the Ref. 

Edited January 7, 2020 by Real McNasty

[K-9]

13 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

I don’t care what Devin Hester did BEFORE the KO rules are changed 

This is not an insignificant point here. Devin Hester never returned a kick from nine yards deep AFTER signaling his blockers that the return is off. If memory serves, he had pretty good blocking on his way to the endzone after he played possum and the coverage team let up.

[apuszczalowski]

5 minutes ago, Billl said:

Not to mention the fact that judges absolutely take clear intent as well as precedent into account when making their ruling.  No judge is going to overturn hundreds of cases of precedent over an Oxford comma.

You are right, judges all the time make common sense rulings on cases all the time. Rules and laws are only written by lawyers and legal teams cause they are cheaper then anyone else. Attempted murder? Why is that even a possibility, common sense says that the person was trying to kill someone else so why don't they just convict them of what they were intending to do?

[K-9]

2 minutes ago, Real McNasty said:

so, it's text book 101?

 

Not even kneeling, tossing the ball away like a fool before the whistle is at least blown. You might find a video out there of a similar scenario but would almost guarantee you will hear a whistle blow before the player chucks it to the Ref. 

Sure. At least until common sense has an opportunity to prevail, as in this instance.

6 minutes ago, KD in CA said:

Of all the cluster*****s in the last 30 minutes of that game (there were 387 by my count), this is the play people are clinging to?   Come on....

I know, right? What a pitiful display of whining to behold. 

[Billl]

2 minutes ago, K-9 said:

I think what transpired on Saturday just may serve as the catalyst for it to be made a public point of emphasis. Witness this debate in this thread. Glad you’re also a fan of common sense. That makes three in this thread, I think.

There literally isn’t a rule written to address this situation.  If anything, it’s an illegal forward pass.  That would create a dead ball (touchback) and a 5 yard penalty.  In this case, that would place the ball at the 15.  No matter how you look at it, it’s neither a touchdown nor a safety.

[Braedenstearns]

21 minutes ago, K-9 said:

He would be assessed an unsportsmanlike penalty. You can’t fake a fair catch. 

But that’s not considered a fair catch! That’s what I mean. It wouldn’t have been considered a fair catch, and I can almost guarantee it would have went back to “he didn’t take a knee”

[Jauronimo]

28 minutes ago, Cotton Fitzsimmons said:

Jauronimo, my good friend, you make sn excellent point here. The issue is, when we’ve seen this gesture (both arms out) the returner is signaling to his blockers and he lets the ball land. The problem is, he then fielded the ball and didn’t down it. There was no whistle and the ball was live. You can see the official was also confused and looked at him as if to say “are you downing it or bringing it out?” 
 

The issue comes in, if the shoe were on the other foot. Had the return team trotted off the field and this joker takes off and returns it for a TD, does anyone think that would’ve been taken off the board?
 

I thought the panel with John Fox/Trey Wingo was particularly insightful on this. They all made the point, if you’re in victory formation, everyone may know your intent, but you still have to execute the snap and take a knee. 
 

And there’s a lot of precedent for weird kick returner/live ball fiascos. YE OLE can never remember one of these blunders being reversed due to “intent”

 

 

 

For the record, I agree with Ye Ole 500%.  Had the return man been ruled down initially, its doubtful I would have noticed.  But I think its a travesty that the official made the call on the field of a live ball and abandoned the ruling under the pressure of the situation and then deemed it as "gave himself up". 

 

I respect K-9 and Alphadawg and their contributions to this fine board which dwarf my own, but I respectfully disagree with their opinions on this matter which may have been lost in my last post.

[Meatloaf63]

12 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

mans not in your line of work. In NFL where officials can apply common sense 

they 100% are when then safe signal has been used ALL YEAR as I am not intending to return the Ball. 

If they apply common sense, why was Fords block flagged for a blind side hit when it wasn’t even close? Why weren’t the Texans flagged for delay of game when the clock reached zero, common sense says when a clock reaches zero, your time is up. That’s why it’s important to follow the rule book. The player merely had to drop to his knee or not catch it at all, he screwed up and you want to give him a pass. He was lazy and you want to reward him. You have also dug yourself in on something you just won’t admit you are wrong about. Be a man an admit it...

[K-9]

1 minute ago, Billl said:

There literally isn’t a rule written to address this situation.  If anything, it’s an illegal forward pass.  That would create a dead ball (touchback) and a 5 yard penalty.  In this case, that would place the ball at the 15.  No matter how you look at it, it’s neither a touchdown nor a safety.

Damn! Now that’s something to consider! My head is gonna explode going though the permutations here.

1 minute ago, Braedenstearns said:

But that’s not considered a fair catch! That’s what I mean. It wouldn’t have been considered a fair catch, and I can almost guarantee it would have went back to “he didn’t take a knee”

Of course. I was referring to an actual fair catch. 

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, K-9 said:

Damn! Now that’s something to consider! My head is gonna explode going though the permutations here.

Foul on offense in the endzone is a safety 

[Rocbillsfan1]

28 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Spoken like a tough guy? 
 

How tough do you have to be to accept the fact that you can’t change a ref’s call and that 65 other plays on both sides of the ball during the course of a contest have a bearing on the outcome as well? How tough do you have to be to face disappointment head on? How tough do you have to be to realize that incessant whining about officials is nothing more than a loser’s lament? 

Find another thread this isn’t about that. 

[Real McClappy]

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Foul on offense in the endzone is a safety 

And that's the exact outcome that should have came on a proper review. 

[K-9]

1 minute ago, Rocbillsfan1 said:

Find another thread this isn’t about that. 

Too late. You made it about that when you introduced the “tough guy” trope to the thread. 

4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Foul on offense in the endzone is a safety 

Yep. Just realized that. 

[Meatloaf63]

6 minutes ago, Billl said:

There literally isn’t a rule written to address this situation.  If anything, it’s an illegal forward pass.  That would create a dead ball (touchback) and a 5 yard penalty.  In this case, that would place the ball at the 15.  No matter how you look at it, it’s neither a touchdown nor a safety.

Actually there is, and it’s a safety....

“If a player of the team which intercepts, catches, or recovers the ball commits a live-ball foul in the end zone, it is a safety. If a player who intercepts, catches, or recovers the ball throws a completed illegal forward pass from the end zone, the ball remains alive.“

 

[Rocbillsfan1]

23 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

really it is black and white. How many times has PI been called right?  Is there HOLDING called on Every play?  According to black and white rules their should be. 
 

guess what right call. And now I am done 

PI is purely subjective and everyone knows this, so is holding. You know what’s not, what happened on the kickoff. It’s like arguing a charge or blocking in basketball when talking about PI and holding .

 

 your anger sounds more like a defense mechanism about being salty that the bills lost. I’m sad they lost but I’m more upset about what the nfl has become and that’s pure nonsense entertainment. 

[GoBills808]

Bump

21 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

If someone can find me just ONE example of a kickoff returner making the safe signal, catching the ball, and then handing it to the ref WITHOUT kneeling first I will never speak of this again.