Sal just declared the Pats*** reign over

[Success]

1 minute ago, PatsFanNH said:

So the Fact Brady has more Playoff comebacks than Manning means nothing? Or the fact his team had the lead w 2 minutes or less to go in the 4th quarter of 8 out of 9 SB means nothing? Or the fact he engineered the 2 greatest comeback in SB history means nothing?  See it’s ok say he isn’t the greatest because their are so many great QBs but to say Manning won more just false and doesn’t even look at how bad that man was in most of his playoff runs. 

It's a team game.  I think Brady is the GOAT, but I can't stand it when people make that argument based on rings & wins.  

 

What if they had switched places?  Brady had the best coach of all time; Manning had one very good coach in Dungy, then 4 coaches who were mediocre or downright bad.  The playoffs are the ultimate coach filter - you don't see a lot of bad coaches advancing far, and it's extremely rare that a bad coach wins a super bowl.

 

I also take issue w/ people who call Manning a "playoff choker."  He did something Brady never experienced:  down 21-3 to his biggest nemesis, in the AFCCG, with the weight of so much playoff failure on his shoulders, he led an incredible comeback to take that game.  Most QB stats get worse in the playoffs - better defenses.  Manning wasn't "bad" in the playoffs.  He just got their a lot.

 

[Troll Toll]

1 minute ago, PatsFanNH said:

So the Fact Brady has more Playoff comebacks than Manning means nothing? Or the fact his team had the lead w 2 minutes or less to go in the 4th quarter of 8 out of 9 SB means nothing? Or the fact he engineered the 2 greatest comeback in SB history means nothing?  See it’s ok say he isn’t the greatest because their are so many great QBs but to say Manning won more just false and doesn’t even look at how bad that man was in most of his playoff runs. 

It is a team sport. Writing off having the best defensive mind of all time AND one of the top Running games in the NFL for the first 3 Super Bowls is simply mind boggling. Brady only needed 135 yards passing to beat the Rams in his first Super Bowl. Think about it the other way, does Brady win any Super Bowls if he is in Indy and Peyton is in New England? I know it may pain you to say it, but the answer is a simple no. In fact Brady possibly washes out of the NFL before his career even gets started in Indy.

[PatsFanNH]

12 minutes ago, Success said:

It's a team game.  I think Brady is the GOAT, but I can't stand it when people make that argument based on rings & wins.  

 

What if they had switched places?  Brady had the best coach of all time; Manning had one very good coach in Dungy, then 4 coaches who were mediocre or downright bad.  The playoffs are the ultimate coach filter - you don't see a lot of bad coaches advancing far, and it's extremely rare that a bad coach wins a super bowl.

 

I also take issue w/ people who call Manning a "playoff choker."  He did something Brady never experienced:  down 21-3 to his biggest nemesis, in the AFCCG, with the weight of so much playoff failure on his shoulders, he led an incredible comeback to take that game.  Most QB stats get worse in the playoffs - better defenses.  Manning wasn't "bad" in the playoffs.  He just got their a lot.

 

Never said he choked he just didn’t lay well in most of his playoff games.. choking means he couldn’t handle it I think he was literally expected do to much.. he was the team.. and the reason he never won that many.. he never stayed in NE to do it as he want way way to much money. Where Brady took discounts to help make the team stronger .. like you he knew he needs a D and some receivers to win.. sadly most QBs don’t get that memo.

5 minutes ago, Troll Toll said:

It is a team sport. Writing off having the best defensive mind of all time AND one of the top Running games in the NFL for the first 3 Super Bowls is simply mind boggling. Brady only needed 135 yards passing to beat the Rams in his first Super Bowl. Think about it the other way, does Brady win any Super Bowls if he is in Indy and Peyton is in New England? I know it may pain you to say it, but the answer is a simple no. In fact Brady possibly washes out of the NFL before his career even gets started in Indy.

Same argument could be made about Steve Young as he was languishing away in TB before being traded to SF.  Coaches matter but the player has to take the coaching.  Not all do..

[Doc]

3 hours ago, Captain Murica said:

Whats the Bills record against Brady and the pats again? I honestly don't care they "cheated", they lost a few draft picks and some $$ but came back with 6 titles.... 

 

The proven history of cheating taints it all.  Sorry.

 

3 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

As we saw this year and 2017, you can make the playoffs without beating the Cheats***.  No excuse.  Cheats*** did not beat us 10 times per year during the Gailey regime or 9 times per year under Jauron.

 

Since the NFL went to a 4-division conference it's become much harder to make the playoffs unless you win the division. 

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Troll Toll said:

Defense wins championships and Indy had basically the worst run defense in the NFL during Peyton’s time there. If he had the best defensive coach in NFL history it is scary to think how dominant his career would be. Instead he had Dungy’s wet tissue Ds.

 

Wrong.

 

5 times in Manning's career in Indy, his Defenses were top 10 in points allowed.  Twice, they were top 2....and The Colts went one and done those years in the playoffs.  Run D was 15 and 16 in those 2 years.

 

Manning only needed 141 yards (to go with 0 TDs, 1 Int, 5 sacks, and 2 fumbles) to win his second and final SB.

 

56 minutes ago, Success said:

It's a team game.  I think Brady is the GOAT, but I can't stand it when people make that argument based on rings & wins.  

 

What if they had switched places?  Brady had the best coach of all time; Manning had one very good coach in Dungy, then 4 coaches who were mediocre or downright bad.  The playoffs are the ultimate coach filter - you don't see a lot of bad coaches advancing far, and it's extremely rare that a bad coach wins a super bowl.

 

I also take issue w/ people who call Manning a "playoff choker."  He did something Brady never experienced:  down 21-3 to his biggest nemesis, in the AFCCG, with the weight of so much playoff failure on his shoulders, he led an incredible comeback to take that game.  Most QB stats get worse in the playoffs - better defenses.  Manning wasn't "bad" in the playoffs.  He just got their a lot.

 

 

 I agree that the Colts blew innumerable packed rosters and 12+ win seasons due to Dungy being massively overrated. 

 

But the 2 QB playoff stats are far different:

 

MAnning:  15 appearances, 9 one and dones, 7339 yards/40TD/25 INT, 14-13 record.  2-1 in SB

 

Brady: 17 appearances, 3 one and dones, 11388 yds/73TDs/35INT, 30-11 record.  6-3 in SB

[Dablitzkrieg]

5 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Yea... Sals a moron. 

You should look in the mirror buddy?

[Troll Toll]

40 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Wrong.

 

5 times in Manning's career in Indy, his Defenses were top 10 in points allowed.  Twice, they were top 2....and The Colts went one and done those years in the playoffs.  Run D was 15 and 16 in those 2 years.

 

Manning only needed 141 yards (to go with 0 TDs, 1 Int, 5 sacks, and 2 fumbles) to win his second and final SB.

 

 

 I agree that the Colts blew innumerable packed rosters and 12+ win seasons due to Dungy being massively overrated. 

 

But the 2 QB playoff stats are far different:

 

MAnning:  15 appearances, 9 one and dones, 7339 yards/40TD/25 INT, 14-13 record.  2-1 in SB

 

Brady: 17 appearances, 3 one and dones, 11388 yds/73TDs/35INT, 30-11 record.  6-3 in SB

I don’t know what you’re on, but in 2006 when the Colts won the Super Bowl, they were dead last in the NFL in run defense. They gave up a whopping 173ypg on the ground and roughly 30 yards per game worse than the 31st ranked run defense. New England was 5th allowing 94 ypg rushing and had the #2 defense overall. Oh and Peyton still kicked their ass in the playoffs.
 

Good on you mentioning his Denver run, when he had no arm left and became a game manager for a great defense. He was able to beat Brady and Bellicheck in the AFC Championship with no arm. You basically made my point. Imagine if Peyton had that defense in Indy in his prime! Brady had a top flight defense backing him for basically 20 years. All he has ever been is a system QB and game manager for the greatest defense in NFL history over a 20 year span.

 

 

Manning also was 3-2 against Brady in the playoffs.

Edited January 6, 2020 by Troll Toll

[TroutDog]

2 hours ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

I knew I liked you! 
seriously though has ever a dynasty in any other sport ever had so many instances of cheating? 
 

Brady gone.

Belichick isn’t really that great of a drafter. He is ok at FA signings because he has watched them first hand. You have to have a strong nucleus in place and than add with FA. Belichick is spending more time at colleges. He and Saban are old friends. Belichick also spent time with Smart at UGA. I just think he is a little late and needs a better college scouting department. I wonder if Pioli would go back.

Regardless I don’t see the Pats being the clear cut team to beat in the AFCE. Lots will depend on what happens between  now and opening day of course. I for one think the Pats are too flawed to fix it in one offseason. The Pats are the team that screams huge step back and misses the playoff next year more than any other team to make the playoffs this year. 

I appreciate your posts as well. ? 

 

I can’t come up with any other sports dynasties who cheat like they do. It’s unfortunate as they could have won without it and, for me, it taints their accomplishments. It seems to be a part of their culture and that’s on them. I was raised that honesty, integrity and honor are the most valuable things you can ever have: they didn’t get that memo!

 

He is poor at drafting. Thank God! If they do put the pieces back together, they’re the one team that can do it. All they need is a couple of receivers and maybe a QB and the D will carry them the rest of the way. 

[Seventeen]

It's just as likely that Brady signs with the Pats next year, Gronk comes out of retirement, and they improve their receiving corps. 

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

The pats would probably be interested in trying to get Brissett back and I wouldn’t count them out so long as Belichick is still there. I’d be very excited to go into an offseason with no Brady there though for a change 

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

The pats would probably be interested in trying to get Brissett back and I wouldn’t count them out so long as Belichick is still there. I’d be very excited to go into an offseason with no Brady there though for a change 

 

The Colts wouldn't trade him to the Cheaters for less than a 1st.  Not that he is worth that amount.

[WhoTom]

I'll believe it when it happens.

Or when Dewey actually defeats Truman.

 

 

[Buffalo03]

5 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

And he was 14-6 with QBs not named Brady (Cassell, Jimmy, Jacoby).  Bill Bellyache is the driving force. If they run off Tommy as I suspect, they'll get someone like Bridgewater or Eli Manning or Ryan Tannehill and the train keeps rolling.  Even if Tommy does leave I suspect it rolls on until Bill retires and the cheating stops or at least the new coach is not as good at it.

Technically, his record is a lot worse than that if you go back to his Cleveland days

[reddogblitz]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

Since the NFL went to a 4-division conference it's become much harder to make the playoffs unless you win the division. 

 

How could that be?

 

Before you had 3 division and one wild card.  Now you have 4 division and 2 wild cards.  More teams get in and you're jockeying with less teams to get in.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

20 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

The Colts wouldn't trade him to the Cheaters for less than a 1st.  Not that he is worth that amount.

I think the colts are about done with him. I actually think he’s pretty solid but I think the colts have different feelings. Also wouldn’t surprise me if Luck just decided to come back either. 

[Mr. WEO]

18 minutes ago, Troll Toll said:

I don’t know what you’re on, but in 2006 when the Colts won the Super Bowl, they were dead last in the NFL in run defense. They gave up a whopping 173ypg on the ground and roughly 30 yards per game worse than the 31st ranked run defense. New England was 5th allowing 94 ypg rushing and had the #2 defense overall. Oh and Peyton still kicked their ass in the playoffs.
 

Good on you mentioning his Denver run, when he had no arm left and became a game manager for a great defense. He was able to beat Brady and Bellicheck in the AFC Championship with no arm. You basically made my point. Imagine if Peyton had that defense in Indy in his prime! Brady had a top flight defense backing him for basically 20 years. All he has ever been is a system QB and game manager for the greatest defense in NFL history over a 20 year span.

 

 

Manning also was 3-2 against Brady in the playoffs.

 

You said: " Indy had basically the worst run defense in the NFL during Peyton’s time there."

 

That's demonstrably false.  He was there 13 years. 

 

And let's look closer at that SB playoff run:

 

That Colts D held teams to 8, 6, 34 (NE), and 17 points. 

 

In the NE game, they held NE to 89 yards rushing.  KC to 44 yards rushing. Baltimore 83 yards rushing.  Chicago to 111.

 

IN the WC game vs KC, Manning had 252 yards despite 39 attempts/1 TD and 3 ints.

 

In the Div game vs Balt, Manning had 170 yds/completed 15 passes/zero TD and 2 ints.

 

His playoff stat line that year?  97/153/1034 yds/4 TD/7 INT.

 

It's safe to say that the Colts D, particularly the run D, carried that team over those 4 games.

 

Imagine Manning with a very good D?  Hmmm...let's try!

 

2007, coming off the SB win they won 13 games and had the #1 D in points and #3 in yards.   One and done.

 

Next year?  2008 won 12 games, 7th ranked D in points, 11th in yards.  One and done.

 

The year before the SB?  2005 they won 14 games, D #2 in points allowed, 11 in yards.  One and done.

 

2002?  won 10 games, D #7 in points allowed, 8 in yards.  One and done.

 

And Brady?

 

2001 SB:  D #6 in points, 24 in yards allowed.

 

2004 SB:  D #2 in points, 9 in yards

 

2014 SB:  D was #8 in points, 13 in yards.

 

2018 SB:  D was #7 in points, 21 in yards.

 

Brady went to SBs behind Defenses that were ranked 24, 31, 13 and 21 in yards allowed.  Not all exactly "top flight"--and not much different than Manning's one and dones listed above.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Doc]

51 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

How could that be?

 

Before you had 3 division and one wild card.  Now you have 4 division and 2 wild cards.  More teams get in and you're jockeying with less teams to get in.

 

The number of playoff teams was still 6 prior to the division change.

 

44 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

I think the colts are about done with him. I actually think he’s pretty solid but I think the colts have different feelings. Also wouldn’t surprise me if Luck just decided to come back either. 

 

They just gave him a 2-year $30M deal with $7M guaranteed this year.  Might as well keep him for the year and tank for Trevor, as has been their wont.

[reddogblitz]

Just now, Doc said:

 

The number of playoff teams was still 6 prior to the division change.

 

Yes but there were only 3 divisions.  3 divisions + 2 WCs = 5.  4 divisions + 2 WCs = 6.

 

And, it's easier to win a 4 team division than a 5 team division.

[Doc]

1 minute ago, reddogblitz said:

Yes but there were only 3 divisions.  3 divisions + 2 WCs = 5.  4 divisions + 2 WCs = 6.

 

And, it's easier to win a 4 team division than a 5 team division.

 

Huh?  Six playoff teams means three divisions and three wildcard teams.  As for it being easier to win a 4-team division than 5, not sure I'd agree with that one.  Especially for a dominant team like the Cheaters were.

[Reed83HOF]

6 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

As a Pats fan, that should make you pretty darn happy.

So you're happy as well then,,,