Gugny Posted January 6, 2020 Posted January 6, 2020 2 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: So you're saying he regressed. 1
DuckyBoys Posted January 6, 2020 Posted January 6, 2020 He improved and he will be better next year. I'm very confident . He's young, smart and wants to win. He'll figure out the details to continue to grow into the position. I'm excited to see what personnel improvements they make on offense
DrDawkinstein Posted January 6, 2020 Posted January 6, 2020 1 minute ago, Gugny said: So you're saying he regressed. Reported. 1
clayboy54 Posted January 6, 2020 Posted January 6, 2020 Based on my eye-test, I believe he improved by around 60%. In other words, he was better than half-again over last season. The stats are too tainted to hold as pure fact anyway. Stats take into account the play of OL, receivers and backs. We had a ton of errors on those units, yet Josh more often than not made something out of nothing. Take away Gore’s ineptitude during the 2nd half of the year, Knox’s drops, poor RT play and generally less than stellar pass protections and you can see the improvement more clearly. i agree that we most need game changers added to our offense next season to let Josh’s growth become more evident.
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted January 6, 2020 Posted January 6, 2020 28 minutes ago, pop gun said: If and when he does all that, it proves what? That he is still one of the better NFL QBs in the league because if he doesn't get better at those things then what, it still proves he is one of the better NFL QBs or does he become a street FA year after next. Stupid argument as there is nothing more for him to prove, he just needs to be better at things! Stupid arguments? - remove the word nothing in your post and you nailed it 100%. you said so yourself -- See bold. there is more for him to prove, he just needs to be better at things! Josh has to prove he can be better "at things" to remove all of my doubt. 1
Thurman Kelly Posted January 6, 2020 Posted January 6, 2020 (edited) He got 20% better. He's now only 30% short of how good he needs to be for the Bills to be a Super Bowl contender. I think his maximum upside is about 10% better than he was this year. Edited January 6, 2020 by Thurman Kelly 1
Alphadawg7 Posted January 6, 2020 Posted January 6, 2020 4 hours ago, BuffaloRebound said: People ready to give up on him are morons. He’s right up there with Lamar, Mahomes, and Wilson as the most talented QB’s in the NFL. Improve the run game and give him some more weapons and watch him continue to blossom into a top a QB as he cuts out the stupid mistakes and learns when to take his shots. Yeah its utterly stupid for anyone to want to give up on him. The kid has been one of the best late game QB's in the NFL since entering the league in terms of comeback wins and then this year 4th quarter passer rating. Some things to take away from this year: Second most TD's in team history Second most TD's in the NFL this year from weeks 5 through 17 behind only Lamar with a 21-3 TD:Turnover ratio during that span Led the league in third and long conversions In the top 5 in NFL history for most rushing yards for a QB in first 2 seasons despite MISSING all or parts of 6 games 2nd most rushing TD's by a QB in NFL history over first 2 seasons 13-7 in the regular season games he started and finished since coming back from injury last season Bills were top 10 red zone team this year going into final week where he barely played Now take into account the following: Bills led the NFL in dropped passes Missed all or parts of 6 games Had 9 new players on offense For bulk of season his top 3 WR's averaged 5'10" in height and about 185 lbs Saddled with worthless WR starters for parts of season in Zay and Foster Had a rotating RT situation, one of which (Ford) struggled a lot of with consistency Is a young learning QB playing in what the other vets called the most challenging and complicated offensive scheme they have ever seen from Daboll Bonus Point: Daboll was a bi-polar OC this year being brilliant one minute and a complete moron the next (example: Josh Allen TD catch vs the unbelievably stupid Gore draw at end of half before the TD attempt to Duke) Anyone entering the offseason down on Allen is just ridiculous. He is not a finished product by any means, but the kid is CLEARLY ascending, CLEARLY a leader, CLEARLY poised, CLEARLY full of promise and potential. Get the kid some receiving weapons and a permanent RT not named Cody Ford (move him to guard full time and he will be fine IMO). 1
Nuncha Posted January 6, 2020 Posted January 6, 2020 8 hours ago, whatdrought said: You're comfortable using one metric to judge the entire season? Okay. Also, I agree about the fumbling. That's such a fluky problem though I expect it to get cleaned up. Not even rounding up. This is true analysis. 2018 10 TD's, 12 INT's (12 Games) 2019 20 TD's, 9 INT's (16 Games) That's a nice improvement. 1
whatdrought Posted January 6, 2020 Author Posted January 6, 2020 3 hours ago, Thurman Kelly said: He got 20% better. He's now only 30% short of how good he needs to be for the Bills to be a Super Bowl contender. I think his maximum upside is about 10% better than he was this year. This is poorly worded. His maximum upside is the best Quarterback to ever play the game. Nobody can debate that. He has the upside to be the best ever on physical talent alone. That’s why he was a first round pick. That’s why he was dang close to being the first pick. Whether he’ll get anywhere near that is anybodies guess, but the talent is for sure there. You can say he’ll only improve 10% from now, but I disagree with that as well. 1
stony Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 I don’t have a number to put out in it, but I’m excited for next season. I was cautiously pessimistic after they drafted him. I changed that to cautiously optimistic going into this season after watching him finish his rookie season. Now I’m just psyched for him to play with some real talent. Here’s hoping Beane will continue to upgrade the oline and offense this off season.
JaCrispy Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, whatdrought said: Simple question really. Use stats if you're a stat person, use eye test if you're an eye test person, use PFF if you're a moron. What percentage did he improve? For me, I think he improved 30-40% as a whole. From his accuracy (not downfield, but he did improve over the course of the season here) to his pocket presence to his decision making to his overall command of the game. Still lots of growth available, but it feels to me like those ready to quit on him are ignoring the jump he took this year, and assuming that he won't make another jump next year. P.S. - He did improve. If your answer is that he didn't, you're a troll and don't belong on this thread. If he improved as much as you say, and he is still as bad as he is, we are in serious trouble... ? In all seriousness, he improved this year a little...but next year he really needs to put it all together imo...I feel like he’s on the 7 year development plan... By the time he throws a 300 yard game, the city should throw a ticker tape parade, erecting a statue that forever cements the occasion... I kid I kid...keep improving Josh...we all are counting on you... Go bills! ? Edited January 7, 2020 by JaCrispy 1
Big Gun Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 4 hours ago, SlimShady'sGhost said: Stupid arguments? - remove the word nothing in your post and you nailed it 100%. you said so yourself -- See bold. there is more for him to prove, he just needs to be better at things! Josh has to prove he can be better "at things" to remove all of my doubt. Nice, twisting my words and then trying to use that against what was said. What a piece of work you are! Done with you! 1
2012spiller Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 9 hours ago, billsfan1959 said: Completion % up 6 points (52.8 - 58.8) TD% up 1.2 % (3.1 - 4.3) INT% down 1.8% (3.8 - 2) TD/INT ratio up from 1:1 to 5:2 Adjudsted Y/A up 1.3 (5.4 - 6.7) QB rating up 17.4 (67.9 - 85.3) Generated the 6th most TDs in the NFL All while having: The highest percentage of passes dropped The 3rd most passes thrown away The 14th most passes tipped or batted down Being blitzed the 2nd most of any QB Tied for 1st on the least amount of time on blitzes, from snap to pressure/pass Being 10th in least amount of separation by receivers at the point of the catch Being 4th in the least amount of YAC by his receivers per attempt Being 6th in the least amount of YAC by his receivers per completion No other QB in the NFL comes close to ranking that low across all those categories. Just in the percentage of dropped passes, spikes, throw aways, and tipped/batted passes alone - at least 5% more of Allen's passes are dropped, spiked, thrown away, or tipped/batted than any other playoff QB, other than Brady. All the other QBs are between 8% and 10%. Josh Allen 15% Tom Brady 13% Aaron Rodgers 10% Kirk Cousins 10% Patrick Mahomes 10% Lamar Jackson 10% Jimmy Garoppolo 9% Russell Wilson 9% Carson Wentz 9% Deshaun Watson 9% Ryan Tannehill 9% Drew Brees 8% You could also see the improvement in his decision making, short to intermediate accuracy, moving through his progressions, etc. He has a long way to go; however, he has improved a lot to this point. The narrative your pushing compared to the stats are a bit misleading. Tipped balls have a lot to do with the quarterback and their throwing angles and release. YAC is more on the quarterback’s ball placement and the play design than the Wr. The bills YAC would go up if Allen improves his accuracy on screens. The amount of throw ways for Allen is driven by the fact he rolls out of the pocket too early instead of steppping up. Once he rolls out he’s eliminates half the field and typical left with one receiver in outlet/triple coverage. Daboll and the wrs could do a better job at having wrs run routes going from the left side of the field to the right with different depth levels... that said he’s improved but still far from a franchise qb. Last year I would say he was a 65/100 this year a 75/100. He needs to do better at stepping up in the pocket, identifying blitzes pre snap, know his hot reads and accurately hitting them. Right now he’s very boom or bust and more bust than boom. 2
billsfan1959 Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 13 minutes ago, 2012spiller said: The narrative your pushing compared to the stats are a bit misleading. Tipped balls have a lot to do with the quarterback and their throwing angles and release. YAC is more on the quarterback’s ball placement and the play design than the Wr. The bills YAC would go up if Allen improves his accuracy on screens. The amount of throw ways for Allen is driven by the fact he rolls out of the pocket too early instead of steppping up. Once he rolls out he’s eliminates half the field and typical left with one receiver in outlet/triple coverage. Daboll and the wrs could do a better job at having wrs run routes going from the left side of the field to the right with different depth levels... that said he’s improved but still far from a franchise qb. Last year I would say he was a 65/100 this year a 75/100. He needs to do better at stepping up in the pocket, identifying blitzes pre snap, know his hot reads and accurately hitting them. Right now he’s very boom or bust and more bust than boom. Actually, tipped balls can have a lot to do with pressure and penetration; YAC is also about route running, separation, and ability of receivers; throw aways have just as much to do with pressure and receivers not being open. You can choose to believe all of it is because of Allen's weaknesses. that's your right. I'll choose recognize that, while Allen has his areas he needs to improve on, there are other areas of performance on offense that affect his production as well. 1
thenorthremembers Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 He went from somewhere near the bottom of the league to a top 15 player at his position. 1
Nextmanup Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 1 hour ago, JaCrispy said: If he improved as much as you say, and he is still as bad as he is, we are in serious trouble... ? In all seriousness, he improved this year a little...but next year he really needs to put it all together imo...I feel like he’s on the 7 year development plan... By the time he throws a 300 yard game, the city should throw a ticker tape parade, erecting a statue that forever cements the occasion... I kid I kid...keep improving Josh...we all are counting on you... Go bills! ? You have to admit that Bills fans have nothing if not faith and hope. In gigantic quantities!
Big Blitz Posted January 7, 2020 Posted January 7, 2020 I'd much rather have my QB attempt a lateral to his bulldozer tight end on National TV then be hot mic'd saying he was seeing ghosts. I know based on that alone which player "wants it" more. I said it earlier. If my QBs biggest flaw is he tries to do too much.....sign me up. We've come a long way from "accuracy." 4 1
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