Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 5, 2020 Posted January 5, 2020 3 hours ago, UConn James said: Patently obvious. But for whatever reason, it simply hasn’t been an area of emphasis by him or the coaching. This is untrue. Josh has talked about working on it with the running back coach and the stick and explained one problem is the limits on “how hard you hit the QB in practice”. You can see that he does different things with the ball when he’s being tackled than he used to - in traffic he now uses the “claw” angled grip they teach and tries to get his other arm around it. He got hauled out of the pile in Dallas *by the ball* and hung on. He has two unsolved problems: 1) when he’s trying to escape and still throw, and hasn’t put it away yet 2) when he’s trying to reach for the first down He also has more progress to be made, but it has been an area of emphasis and he has been working on it. 4
DuckyBoys Posted January 5, 2020 Posted January 5, 2020 maybe he watched Shady too much waving that pigskin around 1 1
BuffaloRebound Posted January 5, 2020 Posted January 5, 2020 His left wrist kind of flops around when he runs. Watch his 40 from the combine. I wonder if somebody has research on how many of his fumbles are when the ball is in his left hand.
Meatloaf63 Posted January 5, 2020 Posted January 5, 2020 3 hours ago, Rc2catch said: Wonderful insight Thank you for adding so much to this post and making this forum a wonderful place to express ones opinion ? 1 1
TigerJ Posted January 5, 2020 Posted January 5, 2020 I don't know that there's a lot he can do with that issue in the offseason, but I think when training camp happens next summer, there should be some drill work on it.
Socal-805 Posted January 6, 2020 Posted January 6, 2020 please also have him work on the running backwards.
Toyo321 Posted January 6, 2020 Posted January 6, 2020 He just needs to spend $5 and hope the refs don't catch him. LOL
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 6, 2020 Posted January 6, 2020 5 hours ago, TigerJ said: I don't know that there's a lot he can do with that issue in the offseason, but I think when training camp happens next summer, there should be some drill work on it. There’s probably a good bit if he puts his mind to it. There may be some areas of specific strengthening. There may be some habits of how he handles the ball as he tries to extend plays. There may be some reflexes he needs to develop to quickly secure the ball better when contact is imminent. 20 minutes ago, Toyo321 said: He just needs to spend $5 and hope the refs don't catch him. LOL Oh, I’m sure that wouldn’t affect his throwing or hand off abilities at all 1
Mr. K Posted January 6, 2020 Posted January 6, 2020 Must have studied at the Travis Henry School of Fumbling
Matt_In_NH Posted January 6, 2020 Posted January 6, 2020 How much better can he get at fumbling. He even just does it on purpose now
Jerome007 Posted January 6, 2020 Posted January 6, 2020 It's getting aware when he takes off more than technique. Most of his fumbles came tackled from behind, some really easy like in this game. When he power runs through tackles he is solid. 1
billsfan1959 Posted January 6, 2020 Posted January 6, 2020 19 hours ago, UConn James said: Whatever Josh Allen is going to do in this offseason with Palmer, et al. he’s gotta put some emphasis on his grip or lack thereof on the football. Yesterday’s fumble came at a key point and the replay showed that the defender didn’t even touch the ball, it just dropped out of Josh’s hand like the hot potato of metaphor. The looseness with ball security has been an ongoing issue this season. He gets in trouble, gets pressured and becomes clumsy with his grip. That may be the Number 1 issue that he has to work on that is a weakness entirely his own, imo. He needs to be better at securing the ball when he runs. However, on that particular play, he was (1) still behind the LOS, (2) still in the process of deciding to run or throw as he was moving forward and was holding the ball accordingly, and (3) the ball absolutely was hit by Mercilus. It wasn't a completely reckless play on Allen's part. Those things happen.
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted January 6, 2020 Posted January 6, 2020 4 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: He needs to be better at securing the ball when he runs. However, on that particular play, he was (1) still behind the LOS, (2) still in the process of deciding to run or throw as he was moving forward and was holding the ball accordingly, and (3) the ball absolutely was hit by Mercilus. It wasn't a completely reckless play on Allen's part. Those things happen. Fumbling while rushing can absolutely be fixed - its the way he holds the ball lower and away from his chest. He needs to focus on that this offseason, too many guys seemed to be punching at it. He also needs to just slide more. As for just general fumbling - LJ had 12 in 7 starts in 2019 and 9 in 15 starts in 2018. For a running QB you're more likely to fumble than probably any other player - but Allens problems this year were more prevalent. Regarding the play in this one that turned the game - Holding the ball on your hip with 1 hand in the pocket... is not secure. I felt he was careless there. Keep the ball up high where you can throw or tuck it.
billsfan1959 Posted January 6, 2020 Posted January 6, 2020 (edited) 13 minutes ago, dneveu said: Fumbling while rushing can absolutely be fixed - its the way he holds the ball lower and away from his chest. He needs to focus on that this offseason, too many guys seemed to be punching at it. He also needs to just slide more. As for just general fumbling - LJ had 12 in 7 starts in 2019 and 9 in 15 starts in 2018. For a running QB you're more likely to fumble than probably any other player - but Allens problems this year were more prevalent. Regarding the play in this one that turned the game - Holding the ball on your hip with 1 hand in the pocket... is not secure. I felt he was careless there. Keep the ball up high where you can throw or tuck it. I won't disagree with that he needs to be better at securing the ball while he runs. On this particular play; however, I do not fault him. He is moving up in the pocket toward the LOS. He is in the process of deciding to run or throw and is looking downfield. He is holding the ball appropriately to throw a pass if he sees a receiver open. Beasley is breaking free from a defender and, in the video below, you can see Allen looking in that direction and it appears he is looking to make the throw as Mercilus' hand comes through and tips the bottom of the ball. You can see Allen's arm continuing to rise after the ball comes out as if he is getting ready to throw. I'm sorry, I just don't find a lot of fault with Allen on this play. It was a great play by Mercilus to get his fingertips on the ball. Edited January 6, 2020 by billsfan1959
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted January 6, 2020 Posted January 6, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, billsfan1959 said: I won't disagree with that he needs to be better at securing the ball while he runs. On this particular play; however, I do not fault him. He is moving up in the pocket toward the LOS. He is in the process of deciding to run or throw and is looking downfield. He is holding the ball appropriately to throw a pass if he sees a receiver open. Beasley is breaking free from a defender and, in the video below, you can see Allen looking in that direction and it appears he is looking to make the throw as Mercilus' hand comes through and tips the bottom of the ball. You can see Allen's arm continuing to rise after the ball comes out as if he is getting ready to throw. I'm sorry, I just don't find a lot of fault with Allen on this play. It was a great play by Mercilus to get his fingertips on the ball. If he keeps both hands on it and keeps the ball high (as awkward as it looks and sounds to move forward in the pocket with the ball like that) he probably doesn't fumble. It seems like the 2nd pat is when he loses grip on the ball, and mercilus hits him at basically the same time. He's moving around there like Favre used to... and Favre had the most fumbles like. ever. Edited January 6, 2020 by dneveu
KD in CA Posted January 6, 2020 Posted January 6, 2020 I will uncharacteristically eschew a snarky comment and instead address the core issue that causes the fumbling — unless it’s a designed run, Allen is still much too indecisive once he leaves the pocket. He has no idea when to tuck the ball and run, when to slide, when to dive forward for the extra two yards, etc. This is how he got hurt against NE (and he did the same ‘run into defenders standing up’ thing again later in the season), and it’s how he fumbled twice in the playoff game (first one reversed on replay, but that doesn’t change the fact he was still in a vulnerable position when he got hit). This must be fixed or there will be ongoing issues with fumbling and injuries.
transplantbillsfan Posted January 6, 2020 Posted January 6, 2020 Yes, he does. And he can. Lamar Jackson fumbled 12 times in just 9 games last year and cut that down to just 9 in 15 games this year. Whatever he did, Josh needs to do. And I think he'll make that one of the centers of his attention this offseason. 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 6, 2020 Posted January 6, 2020 4 hours ago, billsfan1959 said: I won't disagree with that he needs to be better at securing the ball while he runs. On this particular play; however, I do not fault him. He is moving up in the pocket toward the LOS. He is in the process of deciding to run or throw and is looking downfield. He is holding the ball appropriately to throw a pass if he sees a receiver open. Beasley is breaking free from a defender and, in the video below, you can see Allen looking in that direction and it appears he is looking to make the throw as Mercilus' hand comes through and tips the bottom of the ball. You can see Allen's arm continuing to rise after the ball comes out as if he is getting ready to throw. I'm sorry, I just don't find a lot of fault with Allen on this play. It was a great play by Mercilus to get his fingertips on the ball. It was a great play by Mercilus but I think it might come into what Daboll said early in the season about "need to keep two hands on the ball in the pocket" - or maybe just keeping the ball up higher where a lineman can't get a hand on it. I guess I need to look at what some other QB do in that situation. Isn't that D-Dawk who totally whiffs on blocking the guy, like he has no idea that Allen is running by him?
Motorin' Posted January 6, 2020 Posted January 6, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Isn't that D-Dawk who totally whiffs on blocking the guy, like he has no idea that Allen is running by him? Wow, rewatching that in real time, it's maybe even worse. D-Dawk has no one to block so he does a the slowest 360 spin looking for a blocker and completely whiffs. Side Note: Quinton Spain may have hard the surest tackle of the day for the Bills! Edited January 6, 2020 by Motorin'
billsfan1959 Posted January 6, 2020 Posted January 6, 2020 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: It was a great play by Mercilus but I think it might come into what Daboll said early in the season about "need to keep two hands on the ball in the pocket" - or maybe just keeping the ball up higher where a lineman can't get a hand on it. I guess I need to look at what some other QB do in that situation. Isn't that D-Dawk who totally whiffs on blocking the guy, like he has no idea that Allen is running by him? Yeah, a tough call. I can see not having two hands on the ball if you are anticipating a throw. I have watched the play from different angles and I really think he was going to try to hit Beasley, who was separating from his defender and headed back toward the middle of the field. He just waited to long, when he probably should have tucked the ball and ran. And Mercilus made a great play. Yep. That was Dawkins not getting a hand or shoulder on Mercilus. Oh well, seemed to be a bit of that going on in the game...
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