LSHMEAB Posted January 9, 2020 Posted January 9, 2020 1 hour ago, GaryPinC said: If a player of the team which intercepts, catches, or recovers the ball commits a live-ball foul in the end zone, it is a safety. If a player who intercepts, catches, or recovers the ball throws a completed illegal forward pass from the end zone, the ball remains alive. If his opponent intercepts the illegal pass thrown from the end zone, the ball remains alive. If he scores, it is a touchdown. Based on this hypothetical, why wouldn't the Bills just decline the penalty if the ball is ruled live/recovered by the Bills in the endzone? 1
Jauronimo Posted January 9, 2020 Posted January 9, 2020 2 hours ago, bbb said: Then why isn't it in the rule book? Thats what makes it all so confusing for conspiracy theorist simpletons like me. Pereira says he gave himself up. The NFL says it happens all the time and the ruling was correct. But the rule book says something different and the NFL has been silent about this discrepancy. Seems like it would be pretty easy to point to the page and section that me and the other idiots are missing but nothing. Just "we got it right. nothing to see here." And that just fuels more conspiracy theories among me and the other nutjobs. 5 1
mannc Posted January 9, 2020 Posted January 9, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, LSHMEAB said: Based on this hypothetical, why wouldn't the Bills just decline the penalty if the ball is ruled live/recovered by the Bills in the endzone? As soon as the ball hits the ground in the end zone, it’s a dead ball and a safety, so it doesn’t even matter that the Bills recovered it. If a Bills player had caught it in the air, though, it would have been an interception and a touchdown. Someone posted the rule 10 or so pages back and it’s actually pretty clear. Edited January 9, 2020 by mannc
bbb Posted January 9, 2020 Posted January 9, 2020 2 hours ago, Jauronimo said: Thats what makes it all so confusing for conspiracy theorist simpletons like me. Pereira says he gave himself up. The NFL says it happens all the time and the ruling was correct. But the rule book says something different and the NFL has been silent about this discrepancy. Seems like it would be pretty easy to point to the page and section that me and the other idiots are missing but nothing. Just "we got it right. nothing to see here." And that just fuels more conspiracy theories among me and the other nutjobs. I believe they consulted a few people on this thread who have seen it over and over with their very own eyes. 1 hour ago, mannc said: As soon as the ball hits the ground in the end zone, it’s a dead ball and a safety, so it doesn’t even matter that the Bills recovered it. If a Bills player had caught it in the air, though, it would have been an interception and a touchdown. Someone posted the rule 10 or so pages back and it’s actually pretty clear. Yeah, and he was wrong, too.........The ball doesn't hit the ground (until after it is flipped)
Matt_In_NH Posted January 9, 2020 Posted January 9, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, LSHMEAB said: Based on this hypothetical, why wouldn't the Bills just decline the penalty if the ball is ruled live/recovered by the Bills in the endzone? What penalty? 4 hours ago, mannc said: As soon as the ball hits the ground in the end zone, it’s a dead ball and a safety, so it doesn’t even matter that the Bills recovered it. If a Bills player had caught it in the air, though, it would have been an interception and a touchdown. Someone posted the rule 10 or so pages back and it’s actually pretty clear. No. This is wrong Edited January 9, 2020 by mattynh
mannc Posted January 9, 2020 Posted January 9, 2020 1 hour ago, mattynh said: What penalty? No. This is wrong What is wrong about it? 5 hours ago, bbb said: Yeah, and he was wrong, too.........The ball doesn't hit the ground (until after it is flipped) I know. The flip is an illegal forward pass and the ball is dead when that illegal pass hits the turf.
SoCal Deek Posted January 9, 2020 Posted January 9, 2020 15 minutes ago, mannc said: What is wrong about it? I know. The flip is an illegal forward pass and the ball is dead when that illegal pass hits the turf. Isn’t it just a fumble? Or a forward lateral? Are you sure it’s an illegal pass on a return play? And can’t the opposing team recover a forward lateral? If any of that is not correct, why did the Ref not catch it then and stop it there? Why did he purposefully get out of the way?
mannc Posted January 9, 2020 Posted January 9, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: Isn’t it just a fumble? Or a forward lateral? Are you sure it’s an illegal pass on a return play? And can’t the opposing team recover a forward lateral? If any of that is not correct, why did the Ref not catch it then and stop it there? Why did he purposefully get out of the way? I’ll go back and look at the rule again, but I don’t believe a team can recover a forward lateral on a kickoff or punt, although it can be intercepted, just like a legal forward pass can. (I’m not sure what the rule is on non-kicking plays.) If I’m right, the referee obviously didnt know that part of the rule because he treated the toss as a live ball after it hit the ground and signaled Bills TD instead of a safety. Edited January 9, 2020 by mannc
Matt_In_NH Posted January 9, 2020 Posted January 9, 2020 1 hour ago, mannc said: What is wrong about it? I know. The flip is an illegal forward pass and the ball is dead when that illegal pass hits the turf. There is no such thing as an interception from a return man. It would have been a cheap TD but lets follow the rules, when a player is not coached up and make a mistake you suffer the consequences. What happens in victory formation, does the QB take the ball and flip it to the side or take a knee?
row_33 Posted January 9, 2020 Posted January 9, 2020 47 minutes ago, mattynh said: There is no such thing as an interception from a return man. It would have been a cheap TD but lets follow the rules, when a player is not coached up and make a mistake you suffer the consequences. What happens in victory formation, does the QB take the ball and flip it to the side or take a knee? Montana ended a Super Bowl without his knee hitting the ground.... rage on!!!!!!
mannc Posted January 9, 2020 Posted January 9, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, mattynh said: There is no such thing as an interception from a return man. It would have been a cheap TD but lets follow the rules, when a player is not coached up and make a mistake you suffer the consequences. What happens in victory formation, does the QB take the ball and flip it to the side or take a knee? With all due respect, you're not making much sense here. If you want to know the right answer, go back and look at the posts by Motorin' on pages 17 and 18 of this thread. What the return man did here was make an illegal forward pass after a change in possession; it was a dead ball when it hit the ground, resulting in a 5 yard penalty from the spot of the pass. (see Rule 8, Section 1, Article 2, Item 1(d) and Item 2(c)) Because the foul occurred in Houston's end zone, the result is a safety for Buffalo. (see Rule 2, Section 29). Since the ball hit the ground, Buffalo could not have declined the penalty, but if they had intercepted it and returned it for a TD, they could have. (see Rule 8, Section 1, Article 2, Item 2) Edited January 9, 2020 by mannc 1 1
LSHMEAB Posted January 10, 2020 Posted January 10, 2020 8 hours ago, mannc said: With all due respect, you're not making much sense here. If you want to know the right answer, go back and look at the posts by Motorin' on pages 17 and 18 of this thread. What the return man did here was make an illegal forward pass after a change in possession; it was a dead ball when it hit the ground, resulting in a 5 yard penalty from the spot of the pass. (see Rule 8, Section 1, Article 2, Item 1(d) and Item 2(c)) Because the foul occurred in Houston's end zone, the result is a safety for Buffalo. (see Rule 2, Section 29). Since the ball hit the ground, Buffalo could not have declined the penalty, but if they had intercepted it and returned it for a TD, they could have. (see Rule 8, Section 1, Article 2, Item 2) Got it in reference to the Bills ability to decline the penalty. Preciate the info.
Formerly Allan in MD Posted January 10, 2020 Posted January 10, 2020 Perhaps this thread should have been entitled "The Unfair Catch." 1
ms.sydney Posted January 11, 2020 Posted January 11, 2020 This question may have already been asked, if so, sorry for the repetition. As the ruling on the field was called a touchdown, I am aware that all scoring plays are reviewed and this one was not. Why then didn't our head coach throw out the red challenge flag so that it had to be reviewed?
mikemac2001 Posted January 12, 2020 Posted January 12, 2020 16 minutes ago, ms.sydney said: This question may have already been asked, if so, sorry for the repetition. As the ruling on the field was called a touchdown, I am aware that all scoring plays are reviewed and this one was not. Why then didn't our head coach throw out the red challenge flag so that it had to be reviewed? They would say the player was ruled down due to giving himself up and that’s not reviewable my question is why did the ref near the returner rule TD? Then change his mind?
Motorin' Posted January 12, 2020 Posted January 12, 2020 On 1/8/2020 at 10:50 PM, LSHMEAB said: Based on this hypothetical, why wouldn't the Bills just decline the penalty if the ball is ruled live/recovered by the Bills in the endzone? The Bills didn't intercept it. An illegal forward pass is always a dead ball when it hits the ground. No incomplete pass, legal or illegal, can be recovered. It's a dead ball as soon as it hits the ground. On 1/8/2020 at 10:50 PM, LSHMEAB said:
ms.sydney Posted January 12, 2020 Posted January 12, 2020 3 minutes ago, mikemac2001 said: They would say the player was ruled down due to giving himself up and that’s not reviewable my question is why did the ref near the returner rule TD? Then change his mind? No, he was not ruled down at the time of the play. It was ruled a touchdown on the field and it was overturned without review, which is what confuses me. I agree that it should have been a safety, and not a touchdown, but I fail to understand the lack of a review.
Motorin' Posted January 12, 2020 Posted January 12, 2020 On 1/9/2020 at 7:38 AM, mannc said: I’ll go back and look at the rule again, but I don’t believe a team can recover a forward lateral on a kickoff or punt, although it can be intercepted, just like a legal forward pass can. (I’m not sure what the rule is on non-kicking plays.) If I’m right, the referee obviously didnt know that part of the rule because he treated the toss as a live ball after it hit the ground and signaled Bills TD instead of a safety. It turns out a forward lateral can never be recovered once it hits the ground. Though the NFL rule book never uses the word lateral. Forward laterals are called illegal forward passes, and like legal forward passes, are incomplete once the passed ball hits the ground.
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