May Day 10 Posted January 3, 2020 Posted January 3, 2020 6 minutes ago, cd1 said: I must say, I hope I live long enough to witness the "Dante's Inferno" that Pat's Fans will fall into once the B&B show ends.... I think of it as a fascinating experiment. No fan base would be able to withstand such spoiling, and this kind of prolonged success would poison any group in sports. 12-4, Division title, home playoff game and many fans react like it is a 3-13 season that just finished. They have had a bye week 9 years in a row! Have hosted a playoff game 11 straight years, and 16 of 17. The last time they had less than 10 wins was 2002 when they were 9-7. They only had 10 wins twice during that stretch. Bill Clinton was president when they had their last losing season. Even that was a 1 year blip of other winning seasons (and a Super Bowl appearance) that go back to 1995. 17 of the last 19 Division championships. Anyone 30-and-under likely have little to no idea of what the NFL is even like without your team almost guaranteed multiple playoff games and a Division Title. People around 40 years old barely remember and the Patriots have been Division Champs for most of their adult lives. How are these people going to deal if/when the Patriots become a regular team, one who has up years and down years, and sometimes even a down-decade? Are they going to lose interest? Pretend they dont care? I dont know. I think it would be tough to come back and support a team who might be 4-5 and looking to stay 'in the hunt' after all this. As Bills fans, we always have the "what if" thing driving us, which is what Boston sports fans had forever.... but championship after championship has brought diminishing returns, and every one seems less significant than the last. 2
IDBillzFan Posted January 3, 2020 Posted January 3, 2020 33 minutes ago, cd1 said: Add to that IF McDaniels leaves... Although, I wondered if the Pats did not lure McDaniels back with a promise to make HIM head coach when Belicheat leaves. I must say, I hope I live long enough to witness the "Dante's Inferno" that Pat's Fans will fall into once the B&B show ends.... I read today Ian Rappaport reporting that McDaniels considers the Browns HC position as 'a dream' position. In what world does anyone look at the Browns and consider that HC spot a dream anything? 1
TheFunPolice Posted January 3, 2020 Posted January 3, 2020 6 minutes ago, IDBillzFan said: I read today Ian Rappaport reporting that McDaniels considers the Browns HC position as 'a dream' position. In what world does anyone look at the Browns and consider that HC spot a dream anything? Josh is from the Cleveland area and he loved Baker Mayfield in the scouting process leading up to the draft
IDBillzFan Posted January 3, 2020 Posted January 3, 2020 1 minute ago, TheFunPolice said: Josh is from the Cleveland area and he loved Baker Mayfield in the scouting process leading up to the draft That explains a lot of it, thanks, but that owner is batschitt crazy and you would think McDaniels would want his second HC shot would have better odds.
dave mcbride Posted January 3, 2020 Posted January 3, 2020 23 minutes ago, IDBillzFan said: That explains a lot of it, thanks, but that owner is batschitt crazy and you would think McDaniels would want his second HC shot would have better odds. Cleveland is a very talented team. A good coach with DePodesta in charge is a world away from Dorsey/Kitchens.
Tenhigh Posted January 3, 2020 Posted January 3, 2020 38 minutes ago, IDBillzFan said: I read today Ian Rappaport reporting that McDaniels considers the Browns HC position as 'a dream' position. In what world does anyone look at the Browns and consider that HC spot a dream anything? Nightmares are a kind of dream, right? Maybe that's what he meant...
IDBillzFan Posted January 3, 2020 Posted January 3, 2020 25 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: Cleveland is a very talented team. A good coach with DePodesta in charge is a world away from Dorsey/Kitchens. I'm probably at fault for evaluating this like I evaluate projects my company considers; when someone says "We have a great job for you, but the last nine people who took the job were fired before they could really get traction," I walk away. That said, there are more than 32 jobs available in my world, so it's not a fair assessment.
dave mcbride Posted January 3, 2020 Posted January 3, 2020 6 minutes ago, IDBillzFan said: I'm probably at fault for evaluating this like I evaluate projects my company considers; when someone says "We have a great job for you, but the last nine people who took the job were fired before they could really get traction," I walk away. That said, there are more than 32 jobs available in my world, so it's not a fair assessment. I hear you, but McDermott could have reacted similarly in 2017, right? Sometimes the right people get hired and the culture changes. Not saying it's going to happen in Cleveland, but it could.
May Day 10 Posted January 3, 2020 Posted January 3, 2020 on the flip side, how would you feel about being the heir apparent to Belichick? Pretty much impossible shoes to fill Get Cleveland to the playoffs and statues will be erected
Chris66 Posted January 3, 2020 Posted January 3, 2020 2 hours ago, May Day 10 said: I think of it as a fascinating experiment. No fan base would be able to withstand such spoiling, and this kind of prolonged success would poison any group in sports. 12-4, Division title, home playoff game and many fans react like it is a 3-13 season that just finished. They have had a bye week 9 years in a row! Have hosted a playoff game 11 straight years, and 16 of 17. The last time they had less than 10 wins was 2002 when they were 9-7. They only had 10 wins twice during that stretch. Bill Clinton was president when they had their last losing season. Even that was a 1 year blip of other winning seasons (and a Super Bowl appearance) that go back to 1995. 17 of the last 19 Division championships. Anyone 30-and-under likely have little to no idea of what the NFL is even like without your team almost guaranteed multiple playoff games and a Division Title. People around 40 years old barely remember and the Patriots have been Division Champs for most of their adult lives. How are these people going to deal if/when the Patriots become a regular team, one who has up years and down years, and sometimes even a down-decade? Are they going to lose interest? Pretend they dont care? I dont know. I think it would be tough to come back and support a team who might be 4-5 and looking to stay 'in the hunt' after all this. As Bills fans, we always have the "what if" thing driving us, which is what Boston sports fans had forever.... but championship after championship has brought diminishing returns, and every one seems less significant than the last. I think for most Pats fans it will be if the team is competitive. If they go 8-8 with 5 losses by 1 score. I think most will be ok with that. If they go 3-13 with 10 blowout losses. Then things could get dicey. Don't think the latter will happen anytime soon. BB I'm sure will keep the team competitive. It doesn't sound like he plans on retiring.
Whites Bay Posted January 3, 2020 Posted January 3, 2020 42 minutes ago, May Day 10 said: on the flip side, how would you feel about being the heir apparent to Belichick? Pretty much impossible shoes to fill Get Cleveland to the playoffs and statues will be erected Good question. The answer? George Seifert. And that all works for awhile until it doesn't. Speaking of Seifert, you raised a good point about people under 30 not even knowing what the NFL would be like without the Pats* being on top of the division, and essentially the league. I remember rooting against the 49ers after awhile back in the 1980s because...like ENOUGH, ALREADY. But even that was NOTHING compared to what the Pats* have done - through talent, great coaching, abject outright cheating and a LOT of really rancid calls by a LOT of officials. I cannot WAIT for it to crumble, and it's exactly because of that vapid, self-entitled moronic fan base. They have NO idea how hard it is to get all the components lined up. And said components are about to become misaligned. 1
thenorthremembers Posted January 3, 2020 Posted January 3, 2020 17 hours ago, TheFunPolice said: As far as Brady goes.... I think there are some deep resentments between him and Belichick He spent a year orchestrating Antonio Browns arrival in NE only to see it end in 11 days. I think he's miserable and wants to go have fun playing somewhere else for a year or 2. He's getting paid a fraction of what he should be and Belichick spent the cap space on defense. I think both Brady and Belichick want to prove that they can succeed without the other. Belichick has already proven that though. I agree some of this, except for two things. Belichick really hasnt proved he can win without Brady. His win pct before Brady was something like .427, think Jay Gruden before Washington let him go. He had one winning season out of six. His luck started changing when Brady entered the picture. The other thing I disagree with is Brady being worried about money somewhere else. He and his wife are worth close to $600 Million dollars combined. If Brady wasnt with his wife, I am pretty sure the taking less for the team thing would have been less of a deal. Fact is a couple million here and there doesn't impact the guy. That said, Brady's ego is humongous and I am sure he will try and see what he can do without Belichick. I think he wants all the passing records and hopes he can outlive Brees in the NFL to do so. I think he will try to do so without the genius. 1
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted January 3, 2020 Posted January 3, 2020 36 minutes ago, Chris66 said: I think for most Pats fans it will be if the team is competitive. If they go 8-8 with 5 losses by 1 score. I think most will be ok with that. If they go 3-13 with 10 blowout losses. Then things could get dicey. Don't think the latter will happen anytime soon. BB I'm sure will keep the team competitive. It doesn't sound like he plans on retiring. If they go 8-8 I see a MASS exodus of Pats fans pun intended
TheFunPolice Posted January 3, 2020 Posted January 3, 2020 37 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said: 38 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said: I agree some of this, except for two things. Belichick really hasnt proved he can win without Brady. His win pct before Brady was something like .427, think Jay Gruden before Washington let him go. He had one winning season out of six. His luck started changing when Brady entered the picture. The other thing I disagree with is Brady being worried about money somewhere else. He and his wife are worth close to $600 Million dollars combined. If Brady wasnt with his wife, I am pretty sure the taking less for the team thing would have been less of a deal. Fact is a couple million here and there doesn't impact the guy. That said, Brady's ego is humongous and I am sure he will try and see what he can do without Belichick. I think he wants all the passing records and hopes he can outlive Brees in the NFL to do so. I think he will try to do so without the genius. I REALLY hope hubris brings Brady back another year... The guy has been average at best for most of this season It would be nice if it was in NE so that Josh Allen and McDermott could collect a few wins vs Brady/BB/NE before Brady finally retires. It would also help to build up the early parts of the careers of guys like Mahomes and Jackson to log a few more wins against Brady and BB. Basically I want him to stick around so that all the young QBs can stack up a few wins against him. As far as any "yeah butts" regarding his age? I doubt New England fans cared when they beat up on JP Losman and Dick Jauron with Brady in his prime and Belichick in his prime. 1
May Day 10 Posted January 3, 2020 Posted January 3, 2020 1 hour ago, Chris66 said: I think for most Pats fans it will be if the team is competitive. If they go 8-8 with 5 losses by 1 score. I think most will be ok with that. If they go 3-13 with 10 blowout losses. Then things could get dicey. Don't think the latter will happen anytime soon. BB I'm sure will keep the team competitive. It doesn't sound like he plans on retiring. Psychologically, I dont think it is that easy. Some people will be dedicated fan no matter what, but most people won't be able to come to terms with the absence of perpetual gratification. The further removed from this era without success, people will slowly start to get hungrier, but it will probably take a long time and require very good teams to turn people on. The Pats situation is on steroids, but I would compare it to the Detroit Red Wings and Atlanta Braves runs. In both cases, they started having trouble selling tickets to non-premier and even playoff games towards the ends. Detroit has taken a huge hit in hockey support as a result of their eternal success. Pittsburgh, post-Crosby is going to start to see a mass exodus of ticket holders. Do people in Boston even get 'up' for any typical regular season game? I remember trying to buy a ticket to Red Sox games when the Sox were still 'chasing' back in the early 00s (I lived in CT). I couldnt even get in for any weekend game for less than $150 bucks. Now, with all the success I could go to most games for basically face value. There is a whole, large generation of Boston sports fans who know nothing but constant titles. I think they will have a very hard time if the Patriots arent perennial contenders. They will likely float to whatever area sports team is doing the best and throw their lot in with that. I dont mean it as a criticism of the guile of Boston fans or people. Its human nature.
Nextmanup Posted January 3, 2020 Posted January 3, 2020 20 hours ago, KD in CA said: Enough with this nonsense. He's not going anywhere. That is far from determined right now. I can easily see a scenario where this is his last season with the Patriots, and not because that's what Tom Brady wants himself. Can go in other ways as well.
Chris66 Posted January 3, 2020 Posted January 3, 2020 21 minutes ago, May Day 10 said: Psychologically, I dont think it is that easy. Some people will be dedicated fan no matter what, but most people won't be able to come to terms with the absence of perpetual gratification. The further removed from this era without success, people will slowly start to get hungrier, but it will probably take a long time and require very good teams to turn people on. The Pats situation is on steroids, but I would compare it to the Detroit Red Wings and Atlanta Braves runs. In both cases, they started having trouble selling tickets to non-premier and even playoff games towards the ends. Detroit has taken a huge hit in hockey support as a result of their eternal success. Pittsburgh, post-Crosby is going to start to see a mass exodus of ticket holders. Do people in Boston even get 'up' for any typical regular season game? I remember trying to buy a ticket to Red Sox games when the Sox were still 'chasing' back in the early 00s (I lived in CT). I couldnt even get in for any weekend game for less than $150 bucks. Now, with all the success I could go to most games for basically face value. There is a whole, large generation of Boston sports fans who know nothing but constant titles. I think they will have a very hard time if the Patriots arent perennial contenders. They will likely float to whatever area sports team is doing the best and throw their lot in with that. I dont mean it as a criticism of the guile of Boston fans or people. Its human nature. I think you hit the nail on the head. New Englanders won't spend money on suckage. With 4 major sports vying for your money they need to stay competitive to get their piece of the pie.
HOUSE Posted January 3, 2020 Author Posted January 3, 2020 26 minutes ago, Chris66 said: I think you hit the nail on the head. New Englanders won't spend money on suckage. With 4 major sports vying for your money they need to stay competitive to get their piece of the pie. If you are a true sports fan it makes no difference if the team is any good or not. Your team is a priority.
Saxum Posted January 3, 2020 Posted January 3, 2020 4 hours ago, Whites Bay said: Speaking of Seifert, you raised a good point about people under 30 not even knowing what the NFL would be like without the Pats* being on top of the division, and essentially the league. I remember rooting against the 49ers after awhile back in the 1980s because...like ENOUGH, ALREADY. But even that was NOTHING compared to what the Pats* have done - through talent, great coaching, abject outright cheating and a LOT of really rancid calls by a LOT of officials. Teacher: Jimmy during parent workday you told the class that your father is a blind laywer, why did you lie? Jimmy: I did not lie. He works for NFL as referee. I wanted him on TV making calls and it was easy to see that he completely missed flagrant fouls and when coaches threw the red flag he repeated what he said despite visual evidence. Teacher: It is still not right to call him that. Jimmy: Well my mother said I needed to stop calling him a cheating crook to accept bribes to look other way and that was the best I could come up with.
Chris66 Posted January 4, 2020 Posted January 4, 2020 3 hours ago, HOUSE said: If you are a true sports fan it makes no difference if the team is any good or not. Your team is a priority. Only if the sports team is worth spending money on. You wouldnt keep going back to a steakhouse that sucked just because you like steak. The good thing is because of the competition teams dont stay down long. Probably why there has been 11 championships in the last 18 years.
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