Hampton Josh fan Posted January 2, 2020 Posted January 2, 2020 33 minutes ago, kbarrettb said: Wins aren't just predicated on the quarterback. It takes an entire team to win look at Nick Foles? Would you really take him over Watson just because he won a Super Bowl. Watson is a top 5/10 quarterback in the league and Allen is just not there yet. Hopkins is a better receiver than anyone the Bills have but I would put Brown and Fuller in the same category. I would take Singletary over Hyde. I'd take our offensive line over their offensive line and I'd take our tight end over their tight end. One person doesn't win someone a game. Our defense is better than their defenzse. If you switched Watson and Allen but everyone else stayed the same the line would go from 2.5 Texans to 7 or more Bills. Watson is good, is much better than Allen is now and if you look at the numbers it's really not that close. If Allen was putting up the numbers Watson was and Watson was putting up the numbers Allen is it would be unquestionable who you would say is the better quarterback. Take off the fandom blinders and just look at it in terms of numbers. Watson has 45 touchdown passes his first two seasons while playing in 23 games. Josh Allen has thrown 30 touchdown passes in 28 games. Again if you look at the numbers its not close at all. But disagree with stats all you want. Before you get worked up, remember this is subjective. I think Josh is a push because Watson's career is riddled with injuries and Josh has done more with less. Josh has shown vast improvement in the 2nd half with decision making and turnovers. He's got 5, 4th quarter game winning drives and he takes full responsibility for anything negative or losing. Let's get him an AJ. Brown type receiver on the other side of Smoke and see where he is. Deshawn is a good QB and should be for years.
LeGOATski Posted January 2, 2020 Posted January 2, 2020 Objectively had to choose Watson. Seems like a good leader and great QB; MVP candidate like others have mentioned. The jury is still out on Allen. 2
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 3, 2020 Posted January 3, 2020 8 hours ago, DCOrange said: Unless the logic for choosing Allen is "He's the QB of the Bills and I'm a Bills fan", this shouldn't be a contest at all. I like Allen a lot but Watson was an MVP candidate for most of the season. Allen is still trying to prove that he's an average to above average starting QB. Watson is a great QB, a demonstrably much better QB than Allen on his team, but part of the logic is to ask "what about the impact of the team - Hopkins, Fuller, etc?" I'd take Watson in a nanosecond if Hopkins came with him. Just taking Watkins and plugging him into our offense, I'm thinking. 1
Solomon Grundy Posted January 3, 2020 Posted January 3, 2020 On 1/1/2020 at 6:21 PM, wppete said: Great question. I really like Watson. A stud QB, I think he is one of the NFLs elite QBs and seems like a phenomenal person. I saw a piece about his life story and I will always route for Watson but not this Saturday. I think Josh Allen is also elite and I believe a better QB. Still pissed Whaley passed on him
BringBackOrton Posted January 3, 2020 Posted January 3, 2020 15 hours ago, Hampton Josh fan said: Before you get worked up, remember this is subjective. I think Josh is a push because Watson's career is riddled with injuries and Josh has done more with less. Josh has shown vast improvement in the 2nd half with decision making and turnovers. He's got 5, 4th quarter game winning drives and he takes full responsibility for anything negative or losing. Let's get him an AJ. Brown type receiver on the other side of Smoke and see where he is. Deshawn is a good QB and should be for years. Deshaun Watson has had 5 GWD this year. And last year. I don’t think it’s really subjective. This question is as close to objectively obvious as you can get in football. It’s Watson. Anyone who disagrees is kidding themselves. 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 3, 2020 Posted January 3, 2020 1 hour ago, BringBackOrton said: Deshaun Watson has had 5 GWD this year. And last year. I don’t think it’s really subjective. This question is as close to objectively obvious as you can get in football. It’s Watson. Anyone who disagrees is kidding themselves. People are allowed to have different opinions, you know? "Anyone who disagrees with me is ................." is dismissive at best. 1
thebandit27 Posted January 3, 2020 Posted January 3, 2020 Fun exercise for this thread: Head to PFR and check out their advanced passing stats: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2019/passing_advanced.htm Compare Watson and Allen. Here’s what you’ll find: they’re very close in performance in most categories including on-target throw percentage, completed air yards per pass attempt, passing efficiency off PA, etc. Biggest differences are... - Allen suffers a much higher percentage of drops - Allen has a much greater percentage of bad throws - Allen is one standard deviation lower in pocket time - Watson has twice the number of pass attempts and thrice the rushing attempts off RPOs (but the efficiency is about the same for both)
CodeMonkey Posted January 3, 2020 Posted January 3, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, BringBackOrton said: Deshaun Watson has had 5 GWD this year. And last year. I don’t think it’s really subjective. This question is as close to objectively obvious as you can get in football. It’s Watson. Anyone who disagrees is kidding themselves. I think most if not all hard core homer fans of any team, in any sport, fall into that category. It's part of the package. Edited January 3, 2020 by CodeMonkey 1
Motorin' Posted January 3, 2020 Posted January 3, 2020 I really wanted the Bills to draft Watson. They didn't. But if we're going to play fantasy, I'd rather have 1994 Steve Young for the next 50 years. 1 1
BringBackOrton Posted January 3, 2020 Posted January 3, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: People are allowed to have different opinions, you know? "Anyone who disagrees with me is ................." is dismissive at best. Everyone has the right to be wrong. “Anyone who disagrees with me is wrong” is not my take. My take is that anyone who takes Allen over Watson at this point is wrong. Edited January 3, 2020 by BringBackOrton 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 3, 2020 Posted January 3, 2020 4 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: Everyone has the right to be wrong. “Anyone who disagrees with me is wrong” is not my take. My take is that anyone who takes Allen over Watson at this point is wrong. I think you might be missing my point.....Carry On though! 1
Troll Toll Posted January 3, 2020 Posted January 3, 2020 Allen, I think his smarts are criminally underrated and he has the brains to figure out playoff defenses and outsmart them. I have reservations on how Watson will fare against the best defenses in the playoffs. Playoff defenses are a totally different animal than regular season defenses. Allen has had to fight tooth and nail for 2 years with an inadequate supporting cast. Deshaun has gotten to cruise along much of that time. How will Watson react to the easy plays not being there? Allen has been in a perpetual dogfight for 2 years with every mistake magnified because he has no room for errors with the weak supporting cast. 1
thebandit27 Posted January 3, 2020 Posted January 3, 2020 Another interesting fact to consider when comparing the two players: According to NextGen, Houston has 4 players (Fells, Nuk, Fuller, and Stills) that rank in the top 27 in catch percentage in the league. Buffalo does not have a player that ranks in the top 50. That might matter.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 3, 2020 Posted January 3, 2020 1 minute ago, thebandit27 said: Another interesting fact to consider when comparing the two players: According to NextGen, Houston has 4 players (Fells, Nuk, Fuller, and Stills) that rank in the top 27 in catch percentage in the league. Buffalo does not have a player that ranks in the top 50. That might matter. How is that catch % stat computed? Does it limit the targets to "catchable balls"?
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted January 3, 2020 Posted January 3, 2020 4 hours ago, Sunshower said: Short term, Watson. Long term, Allen. Actually, again the question was not who has achieved more to this point, or will achieve more. The question was who would you want leading your team Saturday Watson or Allen? It makes a difference
thebandit27 Posted January 3, 2020 Posted January 3, 2020 7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: How is that catch % stat computed? Does it limit the targets to "catchable balls"? Their glossary doesn’t make it clear
2003Contenders Posted January 3, 2020 Posted January 3, 2020 1 hour ago, Motorin' said: I really wanted the Bills to draft Watson. They didn't. But if we're going to play fantasy, I'd rather have 1994 Steve Young for the next 50 years. I get what you are saying, but the 1994 Steve Young ins not a fair comparison. This was Josh Allen's 2nd season in the NFL, so the comparison would be to Steve Young circa 1985, which still isn't apples to apples, given that Young was playing in the USFL at that time. Remember, Young's early NFL years were spent in Tampa Bay, where he sucked (admittedly TB was a CF in those days). When Bill Walsh traded for him a few years later, Walsh was ridiculed for having done so (especially with Montana still in his prime). It wasn't until Young played under Walsh, Holmgren, Hackett, etc. and behind Montana for 2-3 years that the Steve Young you speak of emerged. Let's hope Josh gets something approaching that manner of care and tutelage over the next several years -- and see where he is at then ?
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 3, 2020 Posted January 3, 2020 50 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: Another interesting fact to consider when comparing the two players: According to NextGen, Houston has 4 players (Fells, Nuk, Fuller, and Stills) that rank in the top 27 in catch percentage in the league. Buffalo does not have a player that ranks in the top 50. That might matter. Could it be that one throws a more catchable football or perhaps more accurately? Watson has always been a very accurate passer with a high completion %. Allen has not. I think it would interesting to compare the drop rates of the receivers through their careers. 56 minutes ago, Troll Toll said: Allen, I think his smarts are criminally underrated and he has the brains to figure out playoff defenses and outsmart them. I have reservations on how Watson will fare against the best defenses in the playoffs. Playoff defenses are a totally different animal than regular season defenses. Allen has had to fight tooth and nail for 2 years with an inadequate supporting cast. Deshaun has gotten to cruise along much of that time. How will Watson react to the easy plays not being there? Allen has been in a perpetual dogfight for 2 years with every mistake magnified because he has no room for errors with the weak supporting cast. Do you think Watson isn’t smart? And Watson plays with the 28th ranked defense. If he doesn’t play well, they lose. I call that pressure. Our defense allows the game to always be tight.
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